I think Vozda needs to take a walk into the FO3 forums from many moons ago and start reading.

Let's face reality here: skill points were pointless, because I can promise the majority of people wrapped them up into their weapon category. What good is having Lockpicking at 50 if you can't even kill a mole rat? Sure, some probably balanced them out over time, but it's unlikely the majority did. No one wants to explore the Capital Wasteland by reloading from the last save point every 10 minutes, so they've definitely given themselves the upper hand.

Many of today's gamers have an attention span of a Nuka-Cola bottle. They want everything from the moment the game starts, then spend the rest of their time complaining how stupid the game is. Hell, this one isn't even out yet and people are already complaining about it.

To me, Fallout 3 is one of the best games I've ever played, despite having few quests. The exploration and the immersion factor pulled me in for a damn rewarding good time. I'm hoping Fallout 4 delivers the same, and based on the short clip I've seen, I don't think I've much to worry about.

I enjoy fast paced games. Bioshock was exceptional in its pacing and leveling design. Skyrim could be challenging due to the faulty level scaling, but overall, it allowed everyone the ability to play a game as they saw it. Perks weren't required, and neither was having to craft every weapon and armor in the game.

Rant all you want. Even if Fallout 4 is a carbon copy of Fallout 3 with a new paint job, I'll be 100% satisfied. It's already on pre-order, because that's how much this game means to me.

If you have a problem with the franchise, go play those other games. After all, they don't sell millions because they have people spreading out skill points or having their user base complaining because they can't go beyond level 81 in a game.

I always do that ~if I find typos, or better ways to phrase a concept.
(I usually refrain though, if I've seen that it has been quoted. It's not fair to change the content if someone has already sided one way or the other on it.)

I bet you are the only one here that thinks that.

I think of it as a discription of contents; same as they have on baby food jars.

Does this mean that in your opinion, a game like Spacemarine would make a suitable Dawn of War 3?

This why I am so hyped for the game. Everything shown so far I love, and I am sure I will love everything else that I am not yet aware of. I love the game for what it is, and couldn't care less about all the crying people are doing on here.

This is something I will never understand about these arguements. They are advocating stagnation, that things should never change, that if you make one game universe you better scrap it after that and make no other sequels because a handful of people will demand that you never change anything and not do what you want with it. They are convinced that they are the ones in control of the series, not the developers. This is especially true for Fallout, where all of the original devs have gone on record saying they are happy with the new Fallout and even made their own incarnation of it with New Vegas. Yet for some reason thats not enough, they flat out come up with conspiracy theories about how they are lying through their teeth, that they do not mean what they say. And frankly, I would love to see someone say to Chris Avellone that "You actually hate New Vegas, your labour of love, and you agree with me completely despite what you think, anything else is you lying and not having a backbone to stand up for MY opinion."

I think you're the only one that thinks that a series name implies that it should be the same forever. And please, answer the question of why you think that way, dont just dodge it by saying "YOU DONT THINK THAT WAY! HAH!"

This is not understanding those arguments. There is not a single person here (in probably 8 years) that wants a stagnant rehash of Fallout 1 or 2.

I cannot help you, I don't think that way.

What do you want? You say stuff like "If the design is not Fallout 1 then it cannot be Fallout." What do you mean by that, if not that you want a game exactly like Fallout 1?

You've said that "A series name implies a certain type of gameplay" thousands of times. That means that you want turn based and isometric gameplay, that anything else is "wrong", correct?

Arguments, arguments never change.

The original game chugged for its use of sprites; there is no practical reason to use 2D isometry on the desktop anymore. They had actually contemplated polygonal models for Fallout, but the platforms of the day could not manage it in the scope they wished.
There is no technical reason a modern Fallout sequel couldn't build upon the series foundation, and benefit from all of the new technologies available.

What I want is of course a game that looks and plays like an advanced and improved Fallout 2 ~befitting the #3 ~or #4. A game that plays and looks like a TES reskin (IE. Open world shooter/stabber) does not fit the bill; does not fit the series; doesn't offer the series' gameplay, doesn't offer the series' expectations* ~of the player.

*If FO3 even offered that by by itself, I could accept it as ~passable, but disappointing.

Okay then you do want the same gameplay. You want a game that is a modern incarnation of Fallout 2.

That game is called Wasteland 2. It is also called Pillars of Eternity. There are also -many- other small kickstarter games that give you that kind of gameplay. When you continue to buy Fallout, knowing full well what it is, and then complain that you got exactly what you expected for your 70 dollars, it doesnt exactly seem sane. You can buy cRPGs if you want, there is nobody stopping you, but Fallout 4 is not a turn based and isometric cRPG. Find a developer that makes games that you enjoy, don't spend 8 years demanding that this developer you've attached to should make games your way and not theirs. Bethesda is going to make the games that they want to play, they are not going to make it on order for you, no matter how many times you keep buying their games and supporting their efforts with your money.

I lived through "classic RPGs" and they had a lot of classic faults that people really do not like to observe.

1) They were poor simulations built on the PnP rules. A computer could have managed 500 stats per character but classic RPGs stuck with standards like "str" and "dex".

2) There was very little reactivity to the world. You were locked into a story in 90% of the games, including Fallout. Only Ultima, an early sandbox game, came close to having good world reactivity. Ultima is one of Howard's inspiration you chose to leave out, by the way.

3) There was not a lot of role-playing. You could play a character class, but if you wanted to play a role in the world around you then you were locked into the story line. Fallout made only minor changes to this formula using quest flags and minor changes to your ending. I still could not do something like start my own trading caravan company and then play out a good simulation of that for 30 or 40 hours. I couldn't start up my own casino and run it. I couldn't round up my own horde and challenge Caesar with it.

4) There was a ton of grinding for levels in most classic cRPGs

5) Most of the tactical combat was poor. The gold box series did okay but even it did not simulate altitude, cover, etc. Fallout's combat tactical simulation was okay but not anything to write home about. The simplistic formulas allowed for a lot of nonsense that shouldn't ever happen.

A lot of the changes made by modern RPGs are made by people like me who played those old games when they came out and put considerable thought into trying to eliminate grind and increase actual role-playing. They read all of Scorpia's old reviews and remember dying over and over to some beholder because the magic widget that allowed you to pass was hidden in a stupid place 40 levels ago and you missed your one chance so haha.

I love old cRPGs but I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses when I think about them.

this is a weird question to answer because Im having difficult time imagining bethesda going from a first person rpg and scaping it to go to an rts with out doing it as a side project to test the waters. They would have to be psychotic to get rid of there bread winner title to do something they never tried before they would probably go bankrupt.
But to answer your question would I want it done as the main series? No I would not. would I try the new game? Yes I still think its an interesting concept. But it wont be the end of video games for me there are other series I can play from other developers I will move on.

No I do not want the same gameplay... anymore than a person wants the same movie in part 2. Think: Lethal Weapon 1/2/3/4... You know what you're getting (without knowing the specifics). You know that you are not getting Ironman or the Punisher; Batman or Spiderman.
Yet they aren't the same films rehashed... (and where they are, so what, it's cool to see it reference itself).

*I of course want gameplay that builds on the foundation of series gameplay; but all would expect new twists and features. Like getting the next years model of a corvette... you don't want it to look and handle like a Volkswagen or Dodge Ram truck; it should look and handle like a corvette; that's why you would buy it.

Wasteland 2 is the most proper Fallout game I've seen in 15 years (and inXile knows it) ~but it isn't one.

This is a common sentiment among the TES fanbase if you've noticed. They think it totally natural to convert any IP into a TES version of it; and they can't fathom the flip side.
This was done to Fallout.

I think that's one of the things that made old gen games like Zelda OOT and FF7 so timeless. There were no gaming forums or youtube rants to jade people's opinions before they even played the game the game for themselves. Your opinion was formed mostly by your own experiences after playing the game for yourself and nothing else.

If you had a critique, you had to write in letters to gaming mags like Nintendo Power and hope your letter would appear in the next issue. Then wait about two issues later to read reader's responses to your critiques.

Very similar to comic books now when you read letters from the fans and critics. Which brings to mind The Walking Dead comics, which has some very entertaining fan mail to read. Especially when they were writing the Governor's story arch, lol.

Just...Are you understanidng what I am saying?

You know full well that Fallout 4 won't be what you want, but you've said you'll buy it anyways. Meanwhile there are other games that are designed entirely around your personal tastes, but you seem content to talk to all of us about how awful your purchase of Fallout 4 will be. What is forcing you to buy Fallout 4? What is making you buy a game you know you'll hate, and spend hours every day telling people how much you hate it?

this can be said for almost any other game with a series.

I have those games; I'm playing those games.

I know what FO4 will be (as far as the demo shows.)

I wish. If you notice, there are many here that seem to disagree; and will gladly post examples.

** Making the same game is not a bad thing if you are refining it as a series. It's a bad thing when you can't make anything else, and do other titles the same as the other series you've been refining.

So why don't you leave the fans of that game alone and become a fan of a game that you like? Be a part of a fandom, not a hatedom.

No, just no...let me say this, It would be quite boring here if everyone just touted the same horn, let's show some tolerance here. It's almost 2016.

Ezekiel 33: 1-3

Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man from among them, and make him their watchman,

If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people,

Then he that heareth the sound of the trumpet, and will not be warned, if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

We were warned! The Fallouts have spoken, and our doom is F4! Repent!

Simple:

I just don't get how you can say that the games are completely "wrong" and say that they should be "fixed" and then...Keep buying them for 8 years.

I mean its just simple logic. If you don't like something, don't buy it. There is room for disagreement, but when you have a very specific vision for the game that is yours alone, and will say that its "wrong" because its not made to your specifications...It just doesnt make any sense.

If I bought a ice cream sandwich every single day of my life for the past 8 years, spat it out in the store, and screamed about how its "wrong" and "not food", what do you think the people around me would say?

"Thank you for your patronage."

*Also the Geck offers hope of fixing it. It's a pipe dream of course, but I can open the Geck and explore how to correct it.

Clearly I support the company by giving them my money every time. It doesnt matter what I say in their store, the truth of the matter is that I am giving them the money they need to keep giving me ice cream sandwiches.

So yes, I am going to say that you do like Fallout 4 after all, and deeply enjoy Bethesdas games. I see no other reason why you would buy them time and time again.

I haven't played them in years. I can appreciate their qualities well enough, but they don't hold my interest long.
(I do have Arena through Skyrim and FO3 ~Sans 'Red Guard'. I have no real qualms with TES games. My only issue is that Fallout games shouldn't be TES games.)

If I were buying ice-cream from that place for a long time, and they decided to change their ice-cream to be sugar-free, I might be upset and post it on Yelp lol. Not everyone likes the direction the series is going, and they're voicing their discontent because they've been playing it for so long. I don't agree with Gizmo 100%, but his posts and his arguments are not without reason. They're very well construed, and they deserve at least a little bit more respect than they're being given right now. I'm seeing a lot of straw-man and hyperbole responses to his posts.