So you are only asking should a 16-bit PC game be updated with all new artwork and sound tracks just for the PC gamers?

IMO that would go over like a lead ballon but probably not for 10 PC guys that frequent this site.

As I said here, the question was more "would you like this regardless of probability?". And a really nice looking re-release of the originals would probably be enough excuse to make a lot of the newer fans of the series to go back and try the originals.

Oh I dunno... I liked Led Zeppelin.

I don't think they need it.

The original artwork was arguably higher poly than FO3's.

*It's interesting though, that the Fallout developers actually rendered the art in 16-bit color [that's 65,536 colors], but they had to reduce them to 229 colors [down from 256 SVGA], because the artists wanted color cycling.

The art itself is fantastic IMO; especially given the limitations they were forced to adhere to. Every sprite looks exactly like an archetype of what it is. All the bums & junkies look just that ~bums & junkies.

The heads are of a unique style ~to be sure, but they work just fine IMO. I don't see that Fallout 1 or 2 need an HD update... aside from the addition of complete animation sets for all character sprites, and a CODEC change to a more standard one. Interplay used an in-house 256 color video codec, and that's partly why you get pink garbage animation from the videos on certain hardware/modes.

Interesting. I think a larger number of sprites would improve the game though. It would make a lot of things easier like that quest in The Den where you have to find one man in debt to the bartender and he looks exactly like the other 30 addicts wandering the area.

That is supposed a nightmare ~on purpose... and the whole game holds a parody that these people all basically look the same in any town; (and the PC presumably doesn't know what Fred's face looks like).

Generally sprites look better reduced. In the case of hand drawn art it is especially so. in the case of 3D art, it can loose a bit of that all-to-plastic look to it ~when not shown in dynamic lighting, as Fallout's sprites were not.

If you mean that the studio should ~from the ground up~ rebuild every sprite as a 3D animated model, and recreate every tiled scene in Fallout 1 & 2 as 3D mesh modeled maps... in Unity or something similar... (and of course re-implement every scripted encounter into the new engine)... Then I think a truly grand job of it could be done ~visually; and theoretically mechanically, but I think that that would push the budget well beyond a fixer project, and into a full blown release of a new title ~complete with all the downsides that many of us (on both sides) likely don't want.

I wasn't very specific on how much detail would go into it but I didn't really consider a complete remake of the graphics. Just transferring all the code into a similar or upgraded engine if the original couldn't handle it and touching up on everything to make it clear and nicer to look at. They wouldn't remake sprites or tiles from the ground up, just improve existing ones and add some more. Maybe sprites in towns looked alike as part of a beneficial side-effect of few sprites to make everyone look similar but I don't think the designers directly wanted to make so few, they were just limited by time and resources.

To recreate the sprites (full figure and talking heads), would require commissioning new 3d assets for all of them, and re-rendering them all as larger art... and probably buying FOnline rather than recreate it [two birds with one stone].

That is quite a lot of work and and expense to begin the project.

This is the case with the heads; those took months ~each. They spent three years on the first game.

All of the figures are around 70 pixels high. The art must visually degrade at the presented distance from the viewer ~or it looks bizarre.

Even if one uses the New Vegas models [rendered them out as sprites], you still lose the detail at that distance. The objects look like that , because that's how objects look at that distance.

Of course it's possible to ensure that each figure is wearing a different color shirt, or their shoulders are different from the guy next to them, but this clutters the game. Players can look at the screen and see "Bums, Junkies, kids, shop keepers, ghouls, guards, thugs"; but if one were to make every person unique... suddenly the player would have to examine every single anomaly up close to discern what it means... they would no longer be able to classify what they see at a glance.

This is more important that individuality. Individuality is for highlighting the unusual... making everything unique lessens the effectiveness of novel appearance.

I suppose so. Still, "Would people like this even if it's unlikely?" is mainly what I was curious about. I was just pointing out that it's re-release could attract significant attention from newer fans and be an improvement in some ways.

Depends on the result itself... not the concept.

If I got Fallout in native 1920x1080 then sure! (But if I got an art for art's sake flashy redesign of every sprite, instead of a concerted effort to recreate it in hi-res fidelity, then probably no. I think it would be more distracting than it should be; and that's detrimental IMO.)

Fo1-Fo2 on the Fonline engine could be great, but it doesn't need official publisher involvement.

A fonline game requiring Fallout asset would need you to have the original Fallout, for legal safety.

Considering you already buy Fallout to use it, it already improves Fallout selling while allowing free hands for the modders.

But before that, it might be good to see what improvements Van Buren will come up with.

Then, it might be interesting to use the improvements made by Van Buren, to make Fo1-Fo2-Fo3-FoNV remakes on the Fonline Engine.

We have to click on each individual anyway to see if they have a unique name or dialogue. The last part is true in concept but almost every quest giver or NPC with unique dialogue in the game uses a sprite we have seen many, many times over.

Usually it is the character's location that gives away their importance. Let's look at The Den, as I mentioned earlier. The bartenders stand behind desks, the leader of the gang wanting the church is isolated inside a building, the junkyard mechanic is far away from all other NPC's, traders are alone in single rooms or behind desks, the head slaver is in the center of a building surrounded by guards at the doors, the mummy guy is inside a wrecked building next to a sarcophagus, etcetera, yet each and every single one uses a generic sprite.

True. Bethesda prides itself on making things look really great to look at though. I doubt they would make eye sores, even if they are working on a unfamiliar engine.

Well... when I said novel, I wasn't really meaning Quest NPCs, rather I meant combat NPC; but any NPC can become a combat NPC. Being able to look at the screen an evaluate threats by class.

It makes sense that NPC's wearing armor (who are usually one's you're going to fight or can fight) all look the same (though they could change the head model so it doesn't look like you got jumped by quadruplets). I was referring to NPC's throughout the whole game.

Any town in Fallout can become hostile to the PC ~that's all of the NPCs in the town. You can look at the screen and see the factions... Fallout is an abstraction ~the whole thing. All of the characters are archetypal. Every kids is a rugrat, every junkie is sickly, every ~everyman~ looks averaged and wearing hand-me-downs. I really don't see the need for separate sprites when they are that distanced, and that [practically] iconic (in both senses). The principle PCs have a talking head, the rest ~could~, but most probably don't warrant it. It's a good thing, that the principle PCs are rooted to the spot; so that it will be easy to find them.

I really don't see the need to have unique [full-figured] heads when the average NPCs all look so much alike ~anyway. In a way, it's similar to... to secret doors in a dungeon crawler game. The designer could ~realistically~ design unique buttons per each wall with a hidden switch; requiring the player to not only think to search the wall, but to search every inch of it with scrutiny... and that's more effort than warranted or necessary. So they usually have a couple or more styles for the button, and it's there if the wall has a hidden switch, and found of the player thinks to look for it.

If the NPC is not a principle unique with some important aspect, IMO they should blend in with the crowd as background scenery.

Without getting overly philosophical people in real life often meld into the background but so many people (if not arguably everyone is unique in some way) are different/unique when we interact with them.

If NPC's are trying to mimic humans than most if not all of them should probably be unique or they're just place holders contributing to a tenuously held together illusion of a world/society.

Granted this is at odds with more logistical issues like writing and programming these people but still...

That is what they are, and what they are supposed to be. ~One of the few times that it really applies to mention that "It is a game".

It is not a life simulation... or at least it was never supposed to be ~and shouldn't be.

Look at these people: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/pb-120416-marathon-ps1photoblog900_zpsb8b91644.jpg

If that were a scene in a game, would it be better for each and every NPC there to have totally unique and memorable face and appearance? Perhaps even to be interactive and have each have their own back story and associated dialogs and quests? Anyone noticeably unique... the mind is going to try to keep a memory of, because it might be important... But all that's important is that they are wearing tank tops and shorts, and are running. If there are six people in that lot that are pertinent to the game, then make them stand out from the crowd like a beacon; patterns you recognize and hold on to. Not everyone should draw your gaze... if everybody did that while you were (really) in town, you would never get anything done, always side tracked, and forgetful of what you were doing. It can be a sensory overload... and a headache to play. The faces don't have to be 100% clones, but they http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/averaged_zps015d4cd3.jpg, if they are more or less the same class of entity.

But also remember that they would all appear to be 90' away from the viewer anyway.

I don't see what difference it makes. People that don't want it to change already have the old games, anyway. If they were revamped, it would be to the attract new players.

Then again... time and monies spent on doing so could be better spent towards a new release.

Truly it doesn't need it; but it's getting close to the point where you'll soon need an emulator to use it even on Windows. The "HD" remake of Wasteland was pretty good, and I'd consider buying a Fallout re-made with the same intentions... Though unfortunately (unless I missed it), the Wasteland improved art has lost all of the previous animation that came with it.

Yea... sooner or later something will have to be done as the OSs evolve. Still, I wouldn't be opposed to improvements. Personally, I think graphic upgrades and additional / improved animations would be a plus, no matter the game in question. It would be sad to lose any of the original animations without being replaced with a better version.

Does it need it? No it doesn't. However, if it were... I wouldn't be mad about it. Like I said... even if they screwed it up you would always have the original to play.

Not only they lost animations, but they are less frightening, less 80s-ish, less dirty (we in the wasteland, not in the clean wasteland).

Overall, those portrait lost a good part of what was originally great & unique. Fortunally, they are optionnal.

But that's people assimilating and doing, acting and dressing the same on purpose.They are going to blend in because of those factors but as soon as you interact with them they will be unique in some way or another, whether it be there stance on gay rights, religion, racism or if they are extroverted or introverted and any other personality traits.

People are extremely nuanced, yes they might blend in at a distance or in a crowd but so do snow flakes and every one of them is unique...

I'm aware that Fallout isn't a simulator but it's also not a game that relies on the fantastical or the magical, Fallout attempts to explain everything from the mundane to the magnificent and perpetrates a world of verisimilitude through logical and plausible cohesion from faction ideologies, characters and so on. This is all in an attempt to suspend disbelief so why should general blend in?It's actually worse than people blending in, Fallout 1 and 2 as you said have archetypal characters which just doesn't apply to people in real life it's basically saying every pimp, junkie or town settler is the same

It can break my own sense of verisimilitude when i see several npc's in a room that are identical or hell even my companions tycho looking like other npc's.

When they are representational ~and background scenery... they should have just enough detail to be noticed as people, but not enough to draw the player's attention as important. If everyone looks important, then you cannot glance at the screen and [easily] distinguish them from the background crowd.

Bethesda actually has 'background crowd' in FO3 ~in Megaton for instance. There are a few people in Megaton that are important, but there needs to be more people in Megaton, to make it a believable settlement. Not everyone will have dealings with the player; how often does anyone [really] enter a room, and know or have business with everyone there? In a waiting room at for instance... would anyone here make a concerted effort to remember every singe face at the DMV or the ER, or in line for a movie ticket? These people have to be there (or it's unusual ~memorable in itself), but they are not all part of a person's adventure in town on their errands... What the player sees in the game should be filtered though the PC's evaluation of their surroundings, and if an NPC is farthest from their mind, then they should not pull the interest of the player too much. They should not be overly attracting, nor bizarrely indistinct. If the devs' are lucky (and careful) the player might never click on them at all ~which would be a successful endeavor in art design.

Trying to improve something for the sake of trying to improve something isn't necessarily going to actually improve it.

When you want to improve something you must ask yourself what the real problem is and how it can be solved.

(By the way, look at Youtube, it's a classic case of wanting to improve something that didn't need improvement and with every update it gets worse and worse. Forcing "improvments" are not going to improve the product. So what is in need of improvement?)

Way I see it there aren't enough issues with the older games to warrant a remake.

The balance can be wonky but generally it works just fine.

SPECIAL could need some balancing out but I think a patch would work better than an entire remake.

Skills? I guess Science, Traps and Throwing could use a boost but again, doesn't need an entire remake for it, just a content patch.

Combat? Not really, patch works.

Dialogue? Nope.

Quest solutions? Not really.

Adding more NPC's? Could be done with a patch as well. Hell, I added a few NPC's to my game almost a decade ago when I was toying around with the modding kit for Fallout 2.

More NPC variations in terms of sprites? Patch.

Sounds? Patch.

Textures? Got something for that already, thanks to modders.

A remake should only be done when a game has aged horribly and simply cannot be played on modern systems any longer and this is not the case with the older games. Whatever issues they do have it could be solved simply by content patches or by modders or perhaps by updating the modding tools and releasing it to the fans so that they can work it out themselves.

If they are going to divert money and resources towards developing something I'd much rather have a new cRPG Fallout rather than just the same old Fallout 1/2/T. There isn't any need to remake the older games. The problems they have could be solved by patches and can/will be solved by modders. And if the only reason you or anyone else want a remake is because you want it to "look" prettier than I just fail to see the point. The games don't look that bad to need a remake, could use with some more art assets and sprite variations, sure. But I see that modders are fully capable of working that into their mods and TC's so again, why would a 'remake' be necessary? A patch'll do. I wouldn't see a remake that did this as a good thing, I'd just see it as Bethesda trying to squeeze more money out of us. Like "oh hey, yknow these things we could have patched into the official versions of Fallout? Yeah we're gonna resell them to you for an even more expensive price!"

And if we're talking about prettifying the games beyond the capacity of the engine then again I gotta ask why they couldn't just create an entirely new game?

Now what I 'would' like is if they went over the NPC sprites and created more variations. Like the hunchback with yellow shirt and brown trousers. They could edit the sprites so that he has a black shirt and black pants along with a chain that goes from one pocket to the other and finally add a little stubble to his head then assign this variation of the sprite to some NPC's to create some variety. It's still the same old hunchback but essentially instead of wearing a yellow shirt some of them wears a black shirt.

It's simple and would help improve variation between NPC's. Could probably be done with a patch as well.

I would like full animation lists for all NPC. (That would allow all NPC's at least the option of using any weapon they have, and or wear armor that shows up.)

*But they don't have the assets files anymore [afaik]; so it would likely require a lot of manual 2d editing, or rebuilding the models from scratch.

One improvement with major potential, is adding more heads. They would no longer take 2-3 months each, using Facegen and any modeling package... or even with motion capture.

They had planned many more, but found it would be impossible, given the time it would have taken.

Spoken like a true member of the master race with tunnel vision.

Did you even consider the 100 million+ console player out there that have only found Fallout recently with 3 and NV and want to learn/experience more about the story and lore?