Hello everyone,

I have recently been reading some information on Fallout 4 and have noticed that they are implementing a 'rubber-banding system'. If you don't know what this means it basically is where you can't kill enemies with a higher level then you or that you can't complete a quest which is a higher level then you. This completely goes against the previous Fallout games as you can go any where you want and complete any mission without this 'barrier'.

Please understand what I am saying Bethesda and remove this feature.

My understanding is that "rubberbanding" refers to latency in MMOs.

wow, someone who never played a second of fallout new Vegas!!! Seriously That Game Was LOADED with no-go locations!

Seriously just trot on down from good springs in an un modded game to Jeans and turn left, and just run up that road!!! Or even beter go from docs past the gustation , it's doable ig your nuts and lucky but going that way is not even remotely easy

Okay, this appears to be the latest OMG TEH SKY IS FALLING announcement from reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3e8vwx/the_rubber_banding_system_should_we_be_afraid_for/

http://imgur.com/a/huYe9

Considering that you could roam anywhere in the earlier games and get turned into crunchy adventurer chow for much higher leveled enemies [okay, so my first character in FO3 ran into a deathclaw when her best weapon was a pistol, although the raiders probably ate you too once they killed you], I don't see the problem.

Quarry Junction in New Vegas would chew you up and spit you out if you weren't prepared going in....

Given its literally his first post ever, .... Someone needs to give him his fishystick!

A more detailed explenation what beth means with rubberbanding for anyone not in the lop, the game will use a hybrid of level scaling and fixed levels.

Aka in area A all mobs will be set to be between lvl 1-10 (depending on your level when you enter it) while in say area B mobs will be between lvl 20-25

Fallout New Vegas and TES Morrowind literally had this, Bethesda used to do this all the time before they started streamlining their games.

They had no-go locations, stronger monsters that don't scale to your level, they didn't use level scaling back then, which was amazing because it made the game feel more real and harder, like real life, because when you're level 1 with no skills or experience you shouldn't and/or can't kill stronger enemies with more experience and skill than you, it just doesn't feel real.

okay, then go walk north of goodsprings to vegas right at the start of the game and see how "free and open" it is

It goes against one out of five previous Fallout games, and that's not even 100% true either.

I love how this happened to be your very first post.

But in all seriousness, why would anyone take pleasure in defeating a supposedly strong monster at Lv.1? It's like if you went into the Quarry Junction at the beginning of New Vegas and had the ability to destroy all the Deathclaws. Level scaling in the sense you are referring to pretty much eliminates much of the challenge that games could have as well as the sense of accomplishment for defeating powerful enemies. What would be the point of leveling up at all if enemies would always be at the same level as you are?

IIRC every Fallout has had leveling scaling similar to this - Fallout 1 and 2, you weren't going to be heading into certain areas without preparation and especially not at low levels. And I know Fallout: New Vegas worked on similar principles.

I found it annoying in Oblivion that it never really felt like I was leveling at all because everything just stayed the same level of difficulty no matter where I went. It started to get ridiculous once all of the random bandits I came across were wearing glass armor and weapons.

One of my favorite bits of news about Fallout 4 was specifically how they were handling level scaling and rubber banding. You're going to be able to see all of the map by the end of the game, you just need to take care when going to higher-level areas willy-nilly. To my tastes, that adds impetus and weight to leveling - I don't enjoy these games as much when you're just gaining levels for the sake of the grind itself - I much prefer running into some trouble I'm unprepared for and then coming back at a later level and sort of getting my revenge on enemies that used to cause me so much trouble.

I remember in particular in the older Fallouts it was a nice feeling once you'd sort of come into your own as a character, got your Power Armor and Plasma Rifle and suddenly all those random encounters that would send you running instantly to the edge of the combat map became manageable.

There, truth. Level scaling on that.... scale has completely ruined my experience in Dead Island.

By the way, Fallout 1-Tactics had no level scaling, at least none that I know of. Everything was the same no matter the player character's level. It uses "natural walls", like the Cazadors north of Goodsprings.

Daggerfall was as level scaled than Oblivion if not more.

Morrowind had level scaled random monsters, NPC was not scaled.

Fallout 3 had level scaling much like Skyrim, Skyrim has an system where npc get an bonus to damage and probably armor you don't get, this is to compensate for gear, avoiding the bandits in glass we had in Oblivion but on the same time keep them dangerous, NPC in Morrowind was mostly an joke on higher levels. Do not think this was done in Fallout 3.

This explains why bandits with good weapons are so dangerous.

New Vegas has no level scaling in general, I wonder if stuff like the legion hit squads who hunt you are scaled as they are very dangerous even at level 50.

New Vegas also shows the downside of no level scaling, you have to have an leveling area, in short you have to go south, east and then north to come to Vegas.

Also the area around Vegas get very easy once you have done some DLC.

It sounds to me that they have ramped up the difficulty a bit from Skyrim in that hard areas are harder than before as in hard.

Now two ways to do level scaling without leveling up the enemies a lot is :1 add more enemies, this is doable now, 2 if repair is still in use weapon and armor condition to make enemies more dangerous.

Skyrim's dragon priests were always a certain level, so unless you turned the difficulty all the way down it was pretty much impossible to kill them at them until you were knee deep in the game.

Giants are also an example of certain level npcs. We've all seen what happens when you run into them at low levels.

yeah no scaling in the old games, of course never stopped speed runners from beating 1-2 silly fast if they want to.

I know, think dragon priests had an lower level and then kept at your level later on up to some limit. Giants and mammoths has fixed level as far as I know, they don't get harder to kill.

Post is over-reactionary and not even close to accurate. Just head North from Goodsprings in NV (and ignore Cowboy Robot when he attempts to warn you), Cazadores say "Howdy, partner!".

I will add that using the term "rubber-banding" by the Devs is a poor choice (since it means so many other things in reference to other game mechanics).

How about we all wait until the system actually causes a game play issue before complaining about it (and making unsubstantiated claims and requests). Yeah, I know you are going to say, "then it will be too late!", but frankly this is Bethesda's game to make or break and all we can do is play it and THEN form potentially valid complaints and opinions on it.

You know whats even worse then oblivions enemy scaling? Is where you get stronger and enemies no longer provide any challenge morrowind and kingdoms of amular did this. sure the begining is challenging but thats how it is for all games. But once you get farther along almost all enemies are being steam rolled and thats not that fun.
bethesda needs to find a balanced between these two options skyrim did it pretty good now im hoping they improve on it with fallout 4.

I like to see enemies I can't kill from the start, motivation to get better geared.

I like this feature. At least it's not like Oblivion with a global level scaling system. With this new system you'll be able to blow through some areas while getting your ass kicked in another. Sounds good to me.

Yep, because "beating" the game was never the point. Thankfully that's true for every major Fallout game.

There was a perk in the earlier fallouts, that let you see enemy stats.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Awareness
I'm sorry, it seems most people seem to lack such a perk

my guess is that what we are seeing here is the new implementation of an awareness perk.
at any rate, the linked imgur screenshots prove nothing, definatelly not the existence of this "rubber banding" (which I know as an effect in racing games, just thought to let you know. who ever thought it would be a god name for level restictions I don't know)

now would you all please stop jumping to conclusions too quickly?

Maybe there's an option to shut off that label telling you what the enemy's level is for immersion purposes?

Or for folks that want to find out on their own what they are and are not able to do