You can't keep installing mods everything you find something that is broken or doesn't work the way you want it to, because all mods are made independently. Eventually, you'll break your game because of the mods. Most of the time, you can fix it by removing the last mod, but then you'll have to decide which one to use. Letting the community create content is GREAT, don't get me wrong, but they need to test it more, a lot more, if they make open-world games like these. Mods are there to improve and add, not to repair.

Don't exaggerate, I didn't say that I wanted every variable in a game to my specific tastes - I was merely discussing a game feature which I thought was problematic (and if I understood right, you actually agreed)
By that logic, the developers are free of any responsibility, concerning the quality of their product, as long as they include an editor.
Not to mention that balance is not a matter of personal taste - difficulty is, and that's why the game comes with a difficulty slider.

But ok, if the way they want to go is to free themselves from any such responsibility, I only have one suggestion: change the license of the editor to allow modders to take the copyright and sell their work. Because if I'm going to spend money on a product, someone has to be responsible for its quality + if I'm relying on the modders to put quality in the game I don't see why all the profit should be going to Bethesda. Share the responsibility, share the earnings... that's fair isn't it?

Actually getting mod content to play nice together is no longer difficult, but it does take some know-how of FO3Edit.

ElminsterEU created a tool called FO3Edit that allows us to "de-conflict" our mod order list for those that want alot of mods and want them all to work perfectly. More importantly he created the MasterUpdate and MasterRestore features of FO3Edit which removes 95% of crash issues and fixes many bugs in the game. The training manual in my sig can show players how to do this, its not very difficult. If you devote one afternoon to learning the basic functions of FO3Edit and FOMM, using 100 or even 200 mods is not an issue. I run with over 100.

It was true at one point that slapping mods on top of one another and removing the last offender was all we had, but that is no longer the case. I hope and pray that Fallout 4 will keep to the same traditions in support the modding community, it brings huge benefits to alot of people!

Miax

In Fallout 4 i think there should be so like you could be in whole north America, but just the important parts like new york, washington dc, LA, Philadelphia and other place like that. and every place would be as big as the pitt or somethin like that, but you should only be able to get to the places by metros (like the pitt) or boats (like point lookut). but when you have been ther you should be able to get there by fast travel, and when you look at the pipboy you should be able to zoom in at the places and choose smaller lookations inside the big location.

Don't get me wrong - the modding capability of Bethesda games is certainly added value. But you're either going to buy the game because it's up to your personal standards or not - I've never bought a game I didn't like just because I was able to mod it into something I did like, for example. I consider that "extra," yes. Sure, it allows players to tailor the game to their individual tastes, but I'd still prefer it if the designers themselves had done so in the first place. (And I'm sure they feel the same way.) Obviously, you can't please everyone all the time. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get it as close as possible, either.

I, myself, am not on here simply to hiss and moan about problems I find in the game, however. I'm perfectly aware of the existence of mods out there - if any exist that fit what I want out of the game, then I've already downloaded them and am currently playing with them.

Everyone's here for a different reason. Myself, I prefer to discuss the various ins and outs of the game's design - any criticisms I level at the game I try to suggest solutions that everyone would be happy with, something that could be (ideally) unanimously approved of. If there's a mod that actually does that in a particular case, then that serves as a good example; but (with all due respect to the modders out there,) those are few and far between.

For example: I'm not a huge fan of the level cap in the game. I like gaining levels. But the real problem goes much deeper than how often and quickly you gain experience points, or the thresholds at which those net you more levels. I can (and have) download a slower levelling mod, but to really "fix" the real problem means pretty much reworking how the entire ruleset is laid out. Which could concievably be done with a mod, but that itself would affect other things that would then need rebalancing, and so on. Sort of a domino effect, there.

When it comes to mods, I'm here to discuss the various qualities of the game itself - what went wrong, what could be done better (and possibly ways to attain that goal.) If a mod actually does solve the entire "problem," then so much the better. But otherwise I don't find it pertinent to the discussion.

In other words, if I were to say "Hey, I wished in Fallout 3 that I had a spraycan so I could keep track of where I'd been when exploring an abandoned factory or cave," and someone came along and said "Well, there's that spraycan mod you can download," then that's great. That actually does have relevance. I could then point at that mod and say "Well that works just great, I hope they put something like that into Fallout 4 so I won't have to wait around for a mod that does it." But if I say something like "The level cap problem is caused by deeper underlying issues with the balance of the ruleset itself - the skill cap, points-per-level, etc," then saying that there's a mod that slows down the levelling doesn't really "fix" anything, and isn't terribly pertinent. It's only putting a bandaid on a wound that's internally bleeding.

Not to mention that if I do have an issue with the game that can be solved by downloading a mod, it's still (to me) not as ideal as the company making a game that suits my needs already. Sure, that's unrealistic and unfair. But I'm here to share my own opinions; and I'm certainly not going to lie and say that I wouldn't like it if they just tailored the next game to exactly suit what I wanted out of a Fallout game. It's up to Bethesda to look through these threads (to the extent that they do, at least,) and decide what's in their best interests to listen to for their next game. But it's certainly not going to have anything to do with my wants if I don't speak up and ask for them, either. Which has nothing to do with the availability of mods.

The "perfect" game doesn't have need of mods - it's already perfect. Sure, that'll never happen. But ostensibly that's what every game designer is striving for, nonetheless.

First off, "balance" is subjective. A game developer will balance the game so that the game appeals to the majority of players, as determined by playtesting and such. Some number of players will not find that balance to their liking. Mods can be used to tailor the game experience to the personal liking of any given player. Mods enhance playability and replayability for many gamers.

Secondly, you do a great disservice to all the great modders we have around here. There are some excellent mods for this game that obviously required many horse of work to develop. Some of these folks did it because they think it's fun. Others are showcasing their talent in hopes of attracting attention of potential employers, and/or stocking their portfolios. I'm sure that many made their mods to share them as well. There are plenty of mods that reach professional quality... FOOK and MMM come to mind, and these mods dramatically enhance the gameplay experience for many.

Difficulty is subjective - as I have already pointed out.
Balance includes that the game should have a consistent difficulty curve for example - and I find it hard to believe that some players would find to their liking if a game is punishingly hard at one moment and ridiculously easy the next.


When did I do that? Was it when I suggested that they should be payed for their work?

I'm not going to play the BN "parse the word" game with you. If you don't want mods, don't use them, but if you don't, then you have to put up with the base game. Besides, both those mods I mentioned...FOOK and MMM...the developers are always asking for imput and adding content per user requests. Frankly, you are MORE likely to get content added from a modder then from a game company...and much sooner as well.

But I don't say the opposite :shrug: I just said that when there's an issue in the game I expect the devs to fix it, at least in the next version - especially since modders have already figured out the solution for their convenience! I just don't agree with the idea that I shouldn't care about devs fixing their messups because some modder will, sooner or later.
What have I ever done to you? I'm even playing Dragon Age as per your suggestion... honest!

Erm this is fo 4 speculation and suggestions. Shouldn't this mod debate take place someplace else please?

I kinda wanna read gamers thoughts about fo4 and not how mods worked in fo3. Thank you.

Some more suggestions: allow player to work a job as much as they want and possibly gain perks and reputation. Say for example I want to work as a gun repairman iafter awhile I gain a perk similar to gun nut.

Or work as a doc, trader, guard, etc etc etc.

Make towns change over time based upon player involvement. Towns could flourish or die out. If you are good, positive npcs move in, but if you are evil you help the crime element move in.

Have almost endless job 'quests'. This was kinda done in fo2 with caravan jobs. To use fo3 as example you could have done jobs for reilly clearing out areas of sm etc.

Please get back on topic and don't take up the entire thread discussing the usefullness/desire/need for mods to balance a game. Many play the vanilla game without mods and find it acceptable. Others use mods. Others make mods as a hobby and still others use them because they personally believe it balances their game. Regardless, this is not the place for that debate and such debates are useless since they won't change another's personal opinions about the games or modding.

All of that is probably true. In terms of future games, however, I'd like to (continue) to see a high degree of modability. One of the more interesting and disappointing aspect of other games is the lack of good modability. DA:O for example, doesn't have an XML UI, which is an unfortunate oversight on Bioware's part. To me, the more modability, the better, and I feel that the extra development time to provide this is well worth it.

Along the lines of actions resulting in changing areas it kind of reminded me of I think Tacoma.

If you sneak in and take out the sm the talon company comes in and claims the area. Doing similar with towns would be very interesting.

For example once evergreen mills cleared out of raiders then settlers could move in.

Fort bannister or constantine could become slaver, BoS, Outcast etc bases all determined by what faction in game a player decides to support.

Lets see what would I like?

A more balanced leveling system: I despised leveling to the cap only 35 or so hours into the game, only completing half of the quests. XP rewards should be less when the difficulty is set higher, it shouldn't give you more. I understand the use of a cap, but then again, if XP is properly distributed throughout the game, a cap isn't necessarily needed

More Balanced skills and abilities: I should feel like a very experienced survivor. Someone who excels in my chosen fields, and highly skilled in my secondaries. I shouldn't feel like a all-seeing, all-powerful, charismatic god. When deathclaws can be dispatched in three hits, the mighty enclave in one hit, and massive super mutants who die in hordes to my guns, the game is taking it way to far. The beginning five or six levels are my favorite. There are always things around the corner that can demolish you, bullets actually hurt, health can be hard to come by: this is a true survivor's series. The rest of the entire game should feel like this. Not just the first 6 hours. A real life person can only become learned in a few areas, not just all. I could build a character with perfect tens down the abilities list, and max out most of my skills. That isn't Roleplaying at all. Maybe less skill points per level are needed. Or my favorite, just add more skills. Stealth can be broken down into sneak and theivery (lockpicking and pickpocketing), Throwing should make a return. And low skills should affect accuracy. The higher the skill, the more tight the shooter's crosshair is. Lower skill equal higher chance of bullet spread. Aim down the sights, a focused action that give accuracy bonus as well a a slight damage bonus. Enemy characters should be able to damage you when in Vats. Thus the price of consistantly using it without cover.

More detail, less scope: It was always the little things that fallout had which gave it its charm. I don't mind coming across a random building to explore for loot, or tunnels to escape the harshness of the wasteland, I mean its what you really have to do to survive! But add some history to the place, history that can actually turn into a side quest. Take the Dunwich building, I was scared as hell in that place until I realized absolutely nothing was going to really happen. It kinda killed the suspense.

Add the chance to gamble. Add true bartering to the game, its own economy that fluxuates and can be taken advantage of when selling your own goods. Bottle caps should be rare, very very rare. Bartering should come back. Trade a gun for a gun without the need of a single bottle cap to influence the transaction. Turn random loot like parts and junk into things you can trade with regular citizens. Even open your own shop which people of the town will come and trade for. Have fun with prostution. I love how you could pimp out your wife for money. Be a fighter to make money. Run with slave traders on their rounds. Become a slave trader yourself and all the politics that are involved with it. Join different factions and deal with the politics that are involved with them.

I don't mind the size of the game world but if scaling it down will help add in more small things and small details then I'm glady up for it.

Better music: I love the radio stations, but the ambient music completely svcked. I don't want to feel like I'm in tamriel when walking around the game world. I want that dark industrial/electronica to make its return. The tribal beats, the grining metal, the dreamy soundscape that really added a almost emotional feeling of pity (ex: Modoc in Fallout 2) No more symphonic music, unless of course for specific game reasons, like the menu music or to introduce a epic battle (like when the BoS and the Enclave went at it)

A better sense of Survival: Money became way too easy to come across, as well health. Resting for a single hour brought no imediate threat, as well as completely resting you. Resting should take more than a few hours to heal a person, not to mention random encounter's should be taken into consideration. Resting in a Raider's house? No telling if four hours later his buddies come back from a hunting trip and see you laying on his bed. Add fatigue to the game, as well as hunger. Starvation should either damage you, or incure stat penalties. For the casual player this could all be turned off by lowering the difficulty, or in-game menu's for those who don't want that kind of micro management. I can understand the little notice which told you if a container was empty or not, but in a way it really svcked me out of the game. That should be an option as well. No Fast Travel or be more creative with it. Use Caravans's as a source to skip around the map. Quest Marker's do help, but this should also be an option to turn off and on.

Honestly, there is alot more but thats all I can think of thats priority one at this moment. I'm sure many many others can agree on these points.

Instead of picking one of two houses, I'd like to find a shack or abandoned building and use that as my staging area, being able to decorate it how you want. Find a nice bed, a nice couch... Coming back to find out somebody stole all your stuff and you have to track them down would add a new element. The ability to transport safes, use robots for protection and set up turrets would be great too.

Music: there should be alot more Music, but not available from the start. Just like in fallout 3, where you could get paid for finding pre war books, you should be able to find pre war LP's. Delivering these should cause 2-3 new songs on the radio. That would be a great motivation other than merely recieving caps.

While reloading my Gauss rifle, those stupid trackers where just wailing on my with axes. I couldn't change guns because it doing an auto reload, so when I hit my hot key, I'd like to be able to switch to my assault rifle without waiting for game to reload my gauss rifle or missile launcher or fat man or whatever.

It really doesn't make much difference for gameplay, but psychologically I want my hot key button to work now.

Neat idea, or even sending us out on a quest to locate what used to be a music store. Just don't blackmail us like 3 Dog did, what a jerk.

Actually I think that makes a big difference on gameplay. That's another beef I have with F3, you can't disable auto-reload. On any (good) modern FPS when the main gun runs dry, you switch to your sidearm for suppressive fire, find cover, *then* you reload. I mean, what kind of moron reloads the weapon *while* taking fire?

On another (similar note), it annoys me that the ammo in weapons aren't kept track of. Eg, your current weapon is currently 14/30; switch to another gun and back to the first, and suddenly it will be magically be reloaded. I find this particularly annoying because even F1, more then 10 years before F3, kept track of the loaded ammo on every gun, and yet Beth still didn't caught up with the tech... :shakehead:

Personaly, I'd like to be able to see some more joinable factions, a wider selection of civilian guns (pump-action shotguns, semi-automatic rifles, small-caliber pistols, esc.), and wastelanders that aren't just a walking buffet for critters.

I hope they keep all of the junk in the new game, then add a boatload more for New Vegas, and then a boatload more in 4. After a few hundred hours the junk and guns get way too repetitive. Hopefully they keep Quantums though, I love looking at those. Clothing and armor too, they added a lot with the DLC so keep all those floating around but add more with the next 2 games.

Guns, instead of just bolt action hunting rifles and .32 ammo I'd like to see that tree off into Mauser rifles, Lee-Enfield rifles, Springfield rifles each with their respective cartridge. Garand rifles, M-14 rifles each with their respective cartridge...

It doesn't seem like fighting aliens without an M-14 for some reason.

They can't, Quantum was in test phase and was produced only in and for DC (and region).

It's not important to me, either of these points. Unrealistic? Perhaps, but i think that combat in general has played too big a part in all of the RPG Fallouts. I'd rather not see any increase in the feeling that this series is going down the FPS route. I think it's gone too far the way it is.

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the game's auto-reload, myself. I could probably work with it either way, though. I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it if it was quicker to switch to another weapon or something - I might concievably enjoy it, I suppose.

What I thought of that might be interesting for VATS would be to make it a bit more "bullet-timey." You press VATS and instead of pausing the game it just slows it down drastically. The interface could remain largely the same, though you'd still be able to control your character while selecting your targets and even during the playback mode. In that manner you'd still be able to be dodging in and out of cover, while still getting the same benefits of VATS. With that, you might be able to dial the damage done to your character back up a bit - since you wouldn't just be standing still getting shot.

Anyway, just a thought. I'm sure there's something you could do to make everyone happy with it.

Well, I agree with you that combat is given too much an emphasis in F3 (and the originals too, to be honest), but I'm of the opinion that if you are going to do something, then you should do it right :shrug: IMO, the FPS route shouldn't have been taken in the first place, but unfortunately that ship is sailed, so we might as well get a FPS system that actually works. Plus, it's not really something hard to do, like redoing the weapons and bullets system, or bettering the AI.