Given that all of that stuff happen before you enter Whiterun, I dont see how not entering it is supposed to somehow make not warning them any less dikeish.

Well unless I actually go to Riverwood I wouldn't know anything about warning anyone. Course it's a game so if I'm being dikeish to NPC's I think I can live with it.

But again I really don't like a game telling me I've got to go do something right away when I'd rather be noodling trout out of the river. However since I played some 40+ characters in Skyrim I can have a wide range in how I played each one.

You mentioned Whiterun before, not Riverwood.

I was confused about what you said as you apparently used the wrong town name, and talked about entering whiterun to not trigger those things, rather then saying Riverwood.

On the converse, I actually play the game for the main quest so I don't want to start the game out with absolutely no leading narrative.

A MQ that doesnt require all that much initial investment worked very well in Morrowind. Makes for some good roleplaying when you can tell the Emperor to bugger off and go join House Telvanni and rise to become a mage lord without touching that whole Nerevarine stuff.

this sense of urgency made me skip the Legion′s mission loyalty, first time I play Mass Effect 2. I think that sux, his mission is great, and even ifs not, I still want to do it.

back to the topic, I really like if we have more then 2 factions to ally in the ending. If the rumor are true, we already have Commonwealth and the Railroad.

The way I see most time sensitive quests working, without being a wall that turns people off in my mind, is that they for the most part, are not MQ essential to the point of game failure, or stopping the game from proceeding, based on the outcome .
They will, however shape the game world around you based on your actions and your inaction.

Some changes could be subtle, like faction rep changing, pre-established locals acting differently/adding different dialogues. Prices and inventory at traders changing. New quests opening or closing off.

Some changes could be drastic, limiting the number of and which factions are at the end game, or being able to end the game with your desired path coming to fruition.

What if this cluelessness and uncertainty was an effect the game aims for?

Freedom for the player, because the pc is all alone without a goal - you have to make your own destiny in this world. This uncertainty would finally feel intentional, not like the main quest was unimportant compared to the side quests and world exploration.

And then, the main quest would catch you instead of the other way around. Because much of the world would tie into the main quest in some way.

Not too late for Fallout 5 and this thread (although named 'Fallout 4') is about all future Fallout games .

What kind of relevance would the experience of the pre-war world have for the rest of the game? (I think the fast-forward approach would be the one Beth takes, because they apparently want to go on in the timeline. Hopefully not more than 5 years after NV though.)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of showing us what the world was before the Great War, imo it would destroy a sense of mystery and wonder we have about it. But that's just me.

I can see the before/after effect it would have and the sense of loss it could induce. But is that really needed? I mean we can see the world before the bombs everyday (well, more or less since the time divergence and all). What else could such an experience bring to the table?

Anyway about a game set in Legion territory:

I always thought it would be a great idea to show us more of the Legion-controlled areas and how people would live under Caesar's regime - preferably in a time shortly after Vegas where the Legion would face their inevitable demise (Caesar dead, Legion disintegrating into smaller armies who squabble over dominion, giving a chance for new powers to arise and stuff).

But I'm not so sure about that anymore. One thing that would be extremely hard to successfully concretize imo is the Latin language, that has become second nature for the Legion. I mean they all speak English, but an Arizona/New Mexico Fallout would need to delve far deeper into the Legion culture than Vegas did. It would also need to canonize a lot of New Vegas' results, which is another difficult task. Plus it should explain why the Legion (who allegedly control most of the upper Colorado) did not take the chance and dam up the river in order to cut off Hoover Dam from it's resource (water) to remove any reason for the NCR to fight for it (thanks to evlbastrd for pointing out this - quite major imo - flaw with NV). Also somewhat hard to satisfyingly explain.

On the other hand, explaining plotholes is imo one of the greatest reasons for sequels in general. And since I'd like to see a Catholic faction in the Commonwealth, Latin would need to be picked up anyway.

"Failure" in a timed quest could lead to different paths. Say the quest to help Ringo was timed. If you ran off somewhere the town would get razed, then you would be able to see a bounty posted for Joe Cobb at Macarran then go on to other bounties. But if you stayed you had a choice who to help. If you help the Powder Gangers perhaps you give them the suggestion to take it over instead, thus opening a way to joining said faction. On the other hand you help Ringo and you can become a guard in his caravan runs then on for the Crimson Caravan. Maybe he becomes a companion.

Damn, that actually legit surprised me with how hard i am able to push skyrim on this pc, but i guess only time will tell then.

I don't like to just 'explore' game worlds. I only go to locations if there is a reason so no I wouldn't like a game like this.

The flip side to that is that many of us will hit a map point on the way to a "required" destination. It often leads to other opportunities, or unmapped locations.

The relevance is, ironically in the title, "Fallout". To visually experience the narrative of what transpired in society pre-war. It'd require perhaps a different area or place (geographically) and maybe not the U.S. but instead maybe Europe or Asia, maybe even Africa. And I think the narrative would require a more ignorant society or people. I'm thinking something like V for Vendetta, a place where people are isolated and don't know much what's going on in the outside world and then.... boom! Bombs hit.

That sort of narrative would keep the mystery in that part of the world in a way that.... "Why did the bombs fall?". In a different geographic position, there might be completely different technology and advancements, or underdevelopments unlike what we see in the U.S. based Fallout games (nuclear cars, nuka colas and so on, there might be different brands, different types of cars, other types of weapons and so on and forth).

I also feel that... well... these thoughts of mine are somewhat colored by how I feel that zombie games are handled. You're brought straight into the apocalypse and the only game I can think of that's different is... Telltale's Walking Dead, where you get to experience some (very briefly) story before and during the outbreak hits the world. You're part of the world "as the outbreak occurs", in essence. I find zombie games very lacking, because it'd be an awesome game and narrative experience if you get to experience normal life, and then also experience the "fallout".

Dawn of the Dead is a great example to use here, where the film's characters live a normal life, come home to their families and everything is civilized. Then the main character wakes up in the middle of the night, and his wife stands in front of him drooling, and he has no real idea of what the hell is going on, and the audience gets to be a part of it and experience it. It's executed really well... but we never see that in any games. It gets tucked into a short prologue, or a short cinematic opening sequence.

Dead Island has a great opening scene and presentation to it (in my opinion), but then it all goes downhill quickly due to the immersion killing mechanics (it quickly becomes degenerative and corrodes its own narrative and suddenly you realize you're playing a Borderlands clone).

Basically, my thoughts and wants/concepts for zombie games morphed into "I wonder how a Fallout game would feel like if you were to play a couple of day in normal society, before the bombs hit?". One could call it a... first person "The Sims" which transforms into "Fallout". Or better... a first person "Grand Theft Auto" that transforms into "Fallout" as you play. Grand Theft... FallOut? (abbreviation... GTFO) xD

Or even as a top-down isometric, like the classics, normal ordinary society/civilisation game that then transforms into the gritty and post-nuclear Fallout.

I've laid out this suggestion to http://projectzomboid.com/ as well, and I believe that game would benefit lots of allowing a couple of normal days without zombies but just mindless NPC's who run around, walk around or do stuff. And then the panic and chaos hits, and you start to hear screams, and people running, and large crowds of zombies appearing, and you've got to hide, and you see NPC's start shooting wildly around them and then just..... silence, perhaps some sirens or alarms still ringing but mostly just silence.

I believe it would benefit Fallout because there's so many open-ended community stories that could form, in a roleplaying sense, much like we see from EVE Online, or the recent news coverage of what Many A True Nerd has done in Fallout: New Vegas (the latter is a more relevant example). Or a new generation to the Fallout series that haven't played Fallout 1, or 2, or 3 or even New Vegas who will get an entirely new viewpoint of the Fallout universe that we can't even fathom.

It's also a very interesting artistic take "What happens when the bombs fall?", and it could even be an artistic and culture question, historical question, as many of us in the Western world don't have much of a clue of what our armies are doing to ordinary lives and people in, say, the Middle East. It might be controversial of me to say that, but I think it's an important question to ask... no matter how horrid it could be in presentation, or the panic that ensues in the presentation (if it were to strive to be authentic or even thematic).

"War... war never changes" well... what? We only see the aftermath of it in the Fallout games, usually several 100 years after it even. But we don't experience the war that caused everything, but instead sub-wars that happens after it. We get to see the intruiges and post-war-wars of the post-apocalyptic destructive war. But not the war that caused everything to happen and turn everything into the Fallout world as we know it.

And I suppose that.... that's the relevance of experiencing a pre-war, pre-apocalyptic, Fallout world.

TL;DR:

1. Start the game in a civilised and ordinary day-to-day Western-type society
2. Play a couple of days, weeks, months maybe even (gamified to pass time faster, or options/difficulty options allowing tweaking)
3. Outbreak/Fallout/Bombs fall/Zombies/Aliens, something apocalyptic.

1 & 2 is most commonly a prologue, a brief cinematic. I think it would be interesting, artistically, if a developing studio attempted to cover that area as a part of the full experience of a game. Even Skyrim could've benefitted from it, and instead of being a prisoner you might've lived in Skyrim (spawn somewhere in Skyrim) and the civil war "happens", whilst you play, instead of being something that has been going on for a while. Or the imperials invade Skyrim whilst you play. There's so much that could be explored on this subject, in my opinion.

I do that too because I see it as advancing or supporting the narrative. Like if I'm low on ammo or need to level up I might find something to help me in this next quest in that building over there. But I don't see the point in just ignoring the main quest entirely and only exploring dungeons. Whats the fun in that?

Add bullwhips to the game. Raiders deserve a good whipping. Maybe even add a craftable mod that turns a whip into an electro-whip.

There are pre-war clothes laying around, but where are all the pre-war undergarments? And bring back tortoiseshell glasses.

A unique lmg or fat man called Big Daddy.

More realistic reactions to fire/electric shock.

Nuka-deathclaws.

Instead of another dog companion, how about its bigger cousin, Mr. Yao Guai. Animal Friend perk required.

Absolilly, the games need whips with unique gameplay style (possibly a whip perk). Needs agility instead of strength.


All for the glasses but no undergarments. Outfits are complete already.


Fat Man got stripped with Esther. Leave them without a unique. Handle this through ammo.


Yeah I agree, not only from the realism standpoint but also with gameplay in mind. Combat in general (and especially melee) should feel more raw and pain should be an experience.


No deathclaws at all and don't even try to take the grace from nukalurks.


Best suggestion in your post. I made it myself already.


What about the fun of not knowing what do do at all?

Can we have ladders that we can climb please!

Isn't that kind of how Fallout 3 started? There was still a main quest but it didn't really tell you what to do when you left the vault.

No, that's too advanced.

Sadly so ~it would seem. IRRC it was an issue with the AI that kept that out.

*My guess (only a guess), would be because of situations like these:
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/Conundrum_zpscf57dd06.jpg
And like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26jNsPlO90


I remember playing FO3 on a below spec PC once, and it played fine ~until combat commenced. Once the combat AI kicked in, the game became an intolerable sideshow; as to be expected on a below spec machine. Perhaps running an AI that can handle the situations above, puts an unacceptable strain on the platform; causing many machines to become below spec.

I think its simply because they didn't think ladders would have been a necessity. If they wanted to, I don't think it would be hard to navmesh both areas the top and bottom ends of the ladder touch and then code the ladders so that the AI knows how and why to use a ladder. The only thing is it would require dynamic first/third person animation for moving up and down and stopping on the ladder and that is something I don't think Bethesda has done in any of their games AFAIK.

Skyrim did implement special edges for the navmesh which would allow the AI to realize that the NPC could jump down from one level to another so it should be possible.

Well lets hope they take advantage of the extra cores that most peoples machines have these days, and all the memory a 64 bit exe can access

NV and FO3 has the same edges for the navmesh.

What people forget is that you have to design the whole area with rooftops or whatever you (or the NPC) climb to in mind. It means about double the work.

FO3 already had 3 levels (motorway, floor, underground) in their wasteland. NV has actually only one. Rooftops would have added another one. I understand why they didn't add them in FO3 concept wise. It is not a simple let the player (or NPC) climb the ladder thing the whole surroundings have to be designed with that in mind.

Still ... yes it would be interesting and nice to see this functionality.

On my last Skyrim play through I "ignored" the main quest as a part of how my character might think. I took my PC to Riverwood and after learning forging had him travel south away from Whiterun to Falkreath and set up as a blacksmith. It wasn't until the PC felt he could no longer ignore what was happening around him that he went and dealt with the dragon problem.

With that particular character, I wanted him to think that whatever was going on didn't effect him, and after being arrested by Imperials, whatever happened to an Imperial town was their problem and they could deal with it on their own.