Deathclaws and other mutated critters are just a tad more aggressive than bears. You don't have military force for the return trip. A 2 month trip best case scenario. I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it doesn't seem to be a very profitable venture. The amount of time it takes you could have gone on 10-20 other trade runs. Plus, there are different economies in different locations. Of course magically in CW they had caps, but if you bringing goods, to exchange for just other hypothetical who knows what they have goods, then you just cross back country with possibly just the exaxt same value in goods you set out with, which you then have to sell. Why do all that when you can just sell in markets you already know?

So, I don't think it is impossible and I don't think it has to deal with being a wuss. I think it just doesn't make sense, like the guy selling sand in a desert.

idea: no metro tunnels all over the map.

bye.

Lol agreed. One of my least fav things! Mainly bc I scare easily and I have a horrible sense of direction.....so....

You seem to be confusing profit with risk. To say that profitability has the potential to be huge is an understatement.
Differing economies have little to to with anything, so long as there are goods to trade, and/or possibly sell, within those localized economies. No one will ever know, until the groundwork is laid.
Of course there is tremendous risk. Usually, tremendous risk and tremendous payout go hand in hand.

Why just sell to a market you already know? If we may speak economically... To corner new markets, that potentially are not already saturated with competition. To, instead of circulating the same caps and goods in a closed market, which will eventually devalue said closed market, add to that wealth of goods and or monies- to actually GROW an economy. It's the difference between GDP and GNP. Sunset Sarsaparilla- it is common in the Mojave, but other regions may just pay extra for something so exotic. Or, you know Jet, which is what stated this convo off- and you have a product that may not make much in your location, but may be sold at a premium elsewhere. Likewise, you could find a new supply of something that is rare to your location, but cheap/plentiful outside of your region to bring back with you and sell for a premium, as the sole distributor.

Again, it is a risk. But, if that risk pays out? You/your company/your descendants/faction/nation are set up, having not just got in on the ground floor, but built having built it.

As for how aggressive deathclaws and the like are. Sure, they are more dangerous than a bear.. but.. Again, those settlers had what, muskets at best? The danger is greater, but this party would be more specialized in dealing with threats, and far better equipped than even a 19th century cavalry regiment. This evens this evens things out. Perhaps not enough to make it a 1:1, but substantially, I should think.

The trip back would likely be riskier, with no military force to travel behind, true. But, I am going to go out on a limb again, by re-asserting that the trip there helps establish safe settlements and safe corridors to travel. It isn't just that someone is sketching out a map along the way- The very idea of merchants following the BoS to the east coast to set up trade relies upon the merchants meeting with settlements along the way. So, while they may not know the area, they are establishing ties with people that do know their respective areas.

Now, that brings another issue, which is that there may even be some settlments out there that intend to rob them, or lead them to disaster, so they can scavenge what's left. Or, they could possibly add to their ranks, those from settlements they visit wishing to broaden their horizons.

I think it would actually make a pretty interesting story.

There is also a difference between canon lore, and gameplay mechanics. Gameplay mechanics are abstractions made to create a game, and to make said game fun, out of the plausible universe you have created.

Even if those gameplay mechanics are implausible, they are understood to be such by literally everyone, and are understood to not be canon placement of items as well. This is why you don't see people complaining about a gun dropping from a skag, even though the gun is bigger then the skag itself, in games like Borderlands. It's a game, and everyone else seems to get that.
-Guns and armor can drop from things logically not big enough to carry them.

-People don't poop, pick their nose, or do any number of normal functions.

-Jet can be found in 200+ year old locked containers.

-Books from the 4th era can be found in ancient crypts sealed since the early first era.

-Explosives cant punch holes in 200 year old decayed walls, or even open any container, no matter how fragile the container is.

-Swords can somehow dismember limbs, but can't cut a cabbage in two.

etc. etc. etc.

Welcome to games.

If FO4 is in Boston, I hope Bethesda at least mentions Boston Dynamics in the history of Boston.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Dynamics

Let's not forget the wacky ragdoll physics that oft transpire in games... NPC's flying x-feet away or into the air, bodies stuck in the ground/surroundings, bodies or you the character falling through the ground never to die/be seen again, bodies falliing from the sky, and etcetera.

Yaeh sad Fallout 1 where Seth and Kathrina stand 24 hours a day, their whole live at the entrance of Shady Sands even if the engine would allow them to do other things. Terrible, terrible...

(not serious because I can make the abstraction)

guess what just showed up again

http://thesurvivor2299.com/

THE INSTITUTE IS SEALED. THEY WON’T HELP US I’M HEADING TO BLACK ROW. -TBNLS 5120 - Nuclear winter has come

yep its back

then on reddit

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout4/comments/35929a/i_know_when_fallout_4_will_be_released_and_its/

I can not for sure tell you it is Fallout 4 as it is still listed as code name, but from what I can only assume it is and makes sense with their development cycles and such and considering the Replicated Man quest in Fallout 3 as well as the previous "confirmation" from Kotaku on the casting sheets. (Which was the only solid evidence I found prior to stumbling across this information and freaking out.)

Bethesda has a listing for November 2, 2015 for a game titled "Institute". I can also say that they only have it listed for PC, PS4, and XBOX One.

Now that the big news is there, here is some side news. They also have a listing for sometime in September to release Fallout Anthology. I can only confirm for XBOX One and PC

yeah I will wait for the official announcement, but wanted to share

I will believe all when Todd announces it

but I do like the release date November 2, 2015 but that's a Monday and not a normal release date for games

and Bethesda would be up against Battlefront, COD, Halo 5 among others

Oh [censored], I love these forums so much. Heated discussions about matters so trivial it's almost laughable. I hope that at the very least the conceptional (I mean conceptual) phase of gamesas's development is like this.

"Marc Raibert [...] spun the company off from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1992."

I'd prefer Boston Dynamics to be either substituted by a Fallout-equivalent or better yet left out completely (or incorporated into MIT) due to the divergent nature of Fallout's timeline.

Good that you mentioned it.

I loved the metro tunnels. But I want more dungeons akin to Gothic's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou0-SZ6bqMM, with actual people and interactions instead of only monsters to kill.

The contrast is important. But for me it's only part of what makes a faction interesting as soon as player choice is involved.

Holy trinity of a faction among factions:

1. Comprehensible motivations

2. Comprehensible dichotomy and dissociation of other factions

3. Passion

The passion part is what engages the player. The faction doesn't have to be passionate. The faction members don't all need to be (although some definitely do). But passion should be invoked in the player. It's complicated, but I'm sure it's somehow quantifiable, just like the cryptic 'atmosphere'.

You know what else is set in stone? Jet in the Capital Wasteland. Jet in Vaults of the Capital Wasteland. But Jet in closed pre-war containers I'd say are indeed an oversight connected to loot tables.

What irks me about this or that possible lore justification for Jet in the east is that it ignores something very important: If Jet made it's way, where's all the other stuff from around the world? I mean we have Tenpenny from Europe, but that's it. Where are all the other post-war inventions from around New York, Miami or the Commonwealth? Why is it Jet, the drug from 3000 miles west that makes such a prominent appearance?

I think we need to connect it to the Brotherhood or Enclave or Harold, who also came all the way from the west. But not via trade caravans, because that wouldn't do Fallout 3 justice (where nobody knows anyone from the west except BoS members). Yeah, you can justify many things, but sooner or later it's going to end up feeling artificial. And this has nothing to do with Fallout 3 (or any other Fallout x) being a sequel or a game. Continuity can work differently than that, working with the boundaries instead of simly kicking them out the window.

And I certainly thought Jet was pre-war when I first played F3 just to let everyone know. I think most people who didn't play any other Fallout before would, as F3 itself seems to think so.

Ebb and flow are over. We know what will happen at E3. Thanks for sharing.

TBH, I get a good chuckle from some of these, and one of my fondest memories of the "new" fallouts is punching a ghoul and watching him yoik off into the distance. LOL'd hard.

The Displacer Glove definitely needs to reappear btw.

But imo ragdoll physics should be toned down. The sense of heaviness translates into atmosphere.

One thing I love about Skyrim is how they increased the physical impact of combat. This should be further enhanced in Fallout 4. Along with a brilliant AI and utility item animations of course. And a pause button. And visible throw arcs. And VATS without time advantage or damage reduction for the pc. VATS needs to let you target everything on the screen, not only limbs (move the crosshairs around to target whatever you want - see a mine? Target in Vats. See a grenade thrown at you? Target in VATS. But mind the time! You will not hit it if you directly target it - work it like a football pass and shoot in the direction of movement).

We need the pause button with a movable camera! We need First Aid to reappear governed by Medicine (and with a portable First Aid Kit with charges - like Weapon Repair Kits should work)! We need First Aid and Repair to work only outside of combat and require time! Fade to black screen and back again, boom, half an hour (or more or less, depending on stats) passed!

Is it lonley and boring at Interplay again?

After seeing this: http://newfallout.com/bethesda-urges-fans-to-ignore-fallout-4-rumors/I think I might just bug out of the forums for a while. It was fun to read and speculate, but if I have to read all the rehashed arguments (that have apparently been beaten to death since the 2008 release of FO3) for an indefinite period of time, I may go nuts.

It was worth it to read and participate when I thought we might hear something in June, the conference is just 37 days away, but if they won't even hint that they might have some news of the game, I'm done.

Soothing news: That article is from 2014. Of course they'll show Fallout 4 at E3 2015.

"Long time" was a year. The article states you should return next year, which is 2015.

I had a feeling someone would figure out it was old news, and I feel a little dumb not catching a date. It just showed up on my FB feed today, so I erroneously assumed it was recent. Either way, they have kept tight lipped and I as a fan feel cheated that they have allowed rumor and speculation to run rampant when they themselves could have at the very least given a glimmer of real hope to the fans.

I will likely still be in the forums reading, laughing, shaking my head, rolling my eyes, and possibly chiming in at times at least until E3. After that, if no FO4 news, I am out.

I didn't get a date, but it says Fallout 3 came out 6 years ago - which means the article is from 2014.

I feel you, but E3 is Fallout 4 time. That's neither a silver lining, nor even just hope anymore.

Now what could ruin it for me on the other hand is what kind of game it will actually turn out to be. I just hope it's more than a new 'Bethesda formula' title, because that would piss me off.

Rumors, rumors, oh rumors.

Fun to read, but one has to be verrrrrrrrry cautious. It is good to see the Survivor website back though! (I know it is fake, it was just fun to follow last year). Gotta remember people, this supposed reveal is a month away and of course the rumor mill will be working overtime, so watch where you step when it comes to anything Fallout 4 related

They could have created any drug concept to fill the need in the mechanics. They called it Jet solely because (like so many other assets), it was part of Fallout 2. They used it because they were intent on tacking anything from the Fallout setting that they could onto FO3; even when it didn't make any sense... Like with Jet and Bottle Caps.


That's a sad outlook, and one shared by the Bethesda Devs, it would seem.

AP wasn't talking about drug mechanics, but about the mechanics of loot tables and item distribution. Of course some Jet was deliberately hand-placed in the Vaults, we shouldn't forget that.

And I'm sure he knows that Bethesda included it solely for brand recognition. They certainly didn't say: "Hm, what would have logically happened in the Wasteland around D.C.? Oh, I got it! Jet would surely end up there, no? I mean it's only logical that it would!" No, they stretched the lore in many areas to make sure they could include elements of Fallout they deemed iconic (for whatever [censored] reason). This kind of fanservice and idolatry has in my opinion no place in any franchise. I don't know why they did this, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

And the whole "they wanted to catch up with previous lore for everybody who didn't play the first two games to teach the new fans what Fallout's all about" argument effectively boils down to "Fallout is about icons, not about an interesting alternate universe with it's own integrity and numerous different environments, histories, occurencies, groups, cultures".

If this argument held any value, it would mean that Fallout 4 would need to go the same way and once again feature BoS, Enclave, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. All this stuff we already know about, but countless new players don't. I mean they wouldn't care anyway if Fallout 4 did something totally unique, but well, the argument is [censored] anyway.

I think working with idols shows a lack of respect for the consumers and the IP. To think that people would automatically accept and like something just because it's already known and thus needing to shove it in anywhere they can is treating people like idiots and takes away from the uniqueness of previous games and the credibility of the setting.

And in case someone without any sense for argumentation thinks I'm mindlessly bashing Bethesda and F3, it's not just that game (although it had the most glaring problems). Fallout 2 did it as well, New Vegas also did (Marcus was fanservice, badly executed and shoehorned).

I don't see why Fallout 4 shouldn't simply take the backdrop of the universe and make a completely unique experience and story within it. Just like Fallout did. Nobody knew who the BoS or Supermutants were. But Fallout made you care. I want a game that makes me care, not a game that desperately wants my respect.

IIRC, both mines and grenades ARE targetable in VATS already. I have used said feature to cause grenades to explode in an enemy's hand in both Fo3 and NV. It's just REALLY hard to target grenades because they are so small, and the NPC's hand blocks a fair bit of it.

By that logic they could have created a new drug to replace skooma in Skyrim, and were simply intent on tacking anything on from the Elder Scrolls setting that they could into Skyrim when they put skooma in the game, instead of making up something new.

You are aware that what you just complained about is basic series continuity 101? Literally, what you just said as bad is basic continuity building that every series does.

There is no reason to make up a new drug, that does the same thing as a drug that already exists, especially when its not illogical for it to have moved from coast to coast(it appearing in 200 year old sealed containers/vaults aside), and when doing so establishes a connection to past games in the series.

I honestly dont get how anyone could see that as a sad outlook, it's something that's been done in series since before stories of King Arthur were first being written. Unless you are trying to suggest that everyone who has made, or added onto, a series, throughout history, has a sad outlook.

That is just a limitation or not having created a post-war vision of those places yet, and not wanting to constrain yourself to something you set up in a previous game.

Also, Moriarty is from another country, and the wasteland survival guide made it basically the same distance east, through Legion lands, to become a book as common as all the other skill books are in the Vegas area.

Not mines, only grenade, cause they are part of the NPC (you can target weapons). But I would want to be able to target every pixel on the screen.

Ok. Done with the rationalization and justifications.

Continuity does not require anything but the very basics of the universe. I wouldn't want your idea of continuity, it would take away from the exceptionalism of the new title, a title that should use the IP's backdrop to tell a unique story, create a unique scenario within that universe instead of relying on old icons.

Yeah, and in 4 years. Pure [censored]. As if that was the thing that made it all the way.

About self-constraining: If you don't feature elements from unknown areas, you also constrain yourself. Think about it. If the WSG is what made it all the way, then there's nothing of greater popularity than the WSG from the east.

Reusing common things like jet doesn't mean the factions, narrative, scenario, etc. etc. have to be constrained by the past games.

Not really. It's an accepted element of series development(be it book. movie, TV show, game) that authors can't include things from areas they haven't created yet. That's just a fundamental problem with fictional universes, were things are added over time, as the author(s) create new things in future installments, instead of habing everything just existing at the same time, as it does IRL They can't pre-plan an entire worlds worth of unique stuff in one go, and even if they do, they might have t change it when they find out it's not as cool as they originally thought, or it just isn't workng in the game.

Its generally understood that all that stuff is there, in lore, we just don't see it because of gameplay limitations. That is just how games have always been, and always will be. I mean, that's true of even Fallout 1-2, do you REALLY think that the armors/weapons we found in-game were the only ones ACTUALLY there? Especially when future games have shown new weapons that are common as hell from east to west?

Yeah, I agree. I mean it is there IP now, so I would expect them to start adding their own stuff to the universe.