@AP: Ok, so jet's where it stops for you. But you'd have certainly welcomed Pulowski Preservation Shelters and Mirelurks (normal) in NV, no? For continuity's sake. But wouldn't it have made Vegas and DC both more uninteresting?

Or am I wrong? Why didn't Punga Fruit reappear in Vegas, [censored] that was a golden opportunity for continuity! What about the lack of Geckos on the east coast? Wouldn't you have included them?

I wouldn't have minded the preservation shelters, nor would I have found it to make either city less interesting. There are tons of thing naturally reoccurring through the nation, for various reasons, such as cars. Did the inclusion of the same kind of cars, which would have been produced and shipped all over the nation, make either game more boring? What about the nuka-cola drink which exists in the same situation?

As for Geckos I would suspect whatever kind of gecko they mutated from doesn't exist out east, so it makes sense, same with normal mirelurks out west. Punga is a plant growing in a specific location, and nowhere else, it makes sense you wouldn't be able to ship tons of it cross country before it decays and becomes inedible.

It all depends on the logic of it. The real world isn't comprised of self-contained bubbles, with absolutely no common products between them, nor is it somewhere where everywhere has the exact same of everything. The game should be this way also.

There should be many reoccurring things, because that is the way the world works, but having reoccurring items doesn't mean you can't add new regional items, like Sunset Sarsaparilla

You're right. Punga is shipped to the Pitt btw (that was certainly no oversight - we also have fridges). And the PPP stood against House's vision.

Still, I'd welcome Jet in F3 and Vegas - and basically all Jet that is to appear - to be Pseudo-Jet, the real thing a legend.

And I also wouldn't have had Jet in the East.

lol, well the world of today isn't I suppose due to globalization, but this a dead, destroyed world we're talking about here, similar to the old world when there we're indeed pockets in Europe with items that you couldn't find anywhere else. This is the dark ages essentially.

Yeah, but PPP, Cola, cars are pre-war.

The most glaring differencies should be fauna & flora in a post-apocalyptic wasteland (war=chaos to the ecosystems, mutation=also chaos) as well as the people. Once we have continental trade, we leave the sphere of Fallout I feel. Local should always come before everywhere.

Except it really isn't, even as far back as Fallout 1 they had moved far beyond dark ages, and re-reached a nearly modern level of life,and by the time of Fallout 3 and NV, we had large nations far beyond dark age technology.

I do agree with this, which is why I love things like the Trogs, the swamp people of Point Lookout, the tunnelers of The Divine(even if they are just re-skinned trogs in-game.), and other such things.

I do believe it was an oversight TBH.

The script that adds punga to merchants is merely aimed at the generic merchant script, which The Pitt takes from the base game.

lol, living in shacks? Large nations, like what? You must be referring to the run-down area surrounding D.C.

There is nothing modern by the standards of modern in the Fallout universe at all in the game. Concerning Fallout 1, where did you see the vast population living in a nearly modern level of life?

The people of the west don't live in shacks, and even the ones that do in the east still have access to things like electricity, running water, and a waste disposal system that wasn't "let it all flow through a gap in the streets".

PPP?

Are you sure about that? Have you played Fallout 1? There's this place...Junktown is the name, a lot of shacks there, pretty run down. Oh and the Hub, another run-down place with quite a few shacks. Let's not even start on Necropolis. I've been to a few third world countries actually in my life, and they had electricity, running water, and waste-disposal systems, but a few pockets didn't, and the places we're pretty run-down just by our standards. Definitely not "modern" in any sense of the word by OUR standards, and yet the technological achievements in Fallout seem heads and bounds above ours. The people are barely scraping a living, living in blown-out shelters, shacks, with access to mutated cows and tainted water, not exactly modern.

Reread my original statement, I never made the claim EVERYONE had gotten that far by the time of Fallout 1. I also clearly stated "by the time of Fallout 3/NV" when I made the original response.

Beyond that I never said they were particularly well off, they are a third world nation in many places.... that doesn't change the fact they are far beyond the dark ages, as you originally said they were. It's most certainly modern, just poor modern.

I know what you said, and that is not at all what you said, so maybe you should re-read what you wrote.

They certainly didn't re-reach anything close to resembling a "nearly modern level of life", certainly nothing beyond living in shacks and eating skewered rat meat. Also, where are these large nations that you speak of that have risen above the apocalyptic environment of their peers?

Just poor modern? What?

Have you been to a third-world country? There is very little if anything modern about them, and the world in Fallout is worse than any third-world country I've visited. The world of Fallout is a dark age. A complete dark age, which remnants of technology from days past, some of which doesn't even work or has no use in the world of Fallout. The world is run by gangs, some just glorified gangs. Drugs are rampant. People live in abandoned blown out buildings and shacks. I would love to know what their diet consists of besides skewered rat meat and mentats. I could go on and on.

What are the NCR and Legion?

Both cover more land then some European nations do today. Hell, the NCR has a railroad system in place, vertibrid aircraft, and, if the Fallout Bible is to be believed, numerous working cars.

Depends on what you mean by modern m8. In the context of a comparison to the dark ages, as you made, having things like working fans, stoves, refrigerators, toilets, lights, etc.etc. is very modern.

lol, first I'm not referring to THE Dark Ages obviously. I'm pretty sure the people in Fallout aren't worried about a Saxon invasion anytime soon or fighting the Black Death. They're living in a dark age, a post apocalyptic era, the worst third-world country you can think of. Having a fan and some lights doesn't make them modern by any standard applied to in the Fallout world, especially contrasted against the world that once was.

The NCR and the Legion are large nations? Really? What framework do they have that makes them a nation in any sense of the word? So Caesar's Legion has a so called capital in Flagstaff and they reputably control everything west of the Colorado river, yet where are their fortresses, their cities, their banners? What do they actually control but in name only? They're bureaucracy consists of a general and a totem pole, much like a very rudimentary tyranny bordering on complete anarchy, no judiciary, no senate, and class structure is based on might. He's just an army. The NCR, I won't even go there, what a joke.

I hope the NCR collapses sometime soon, or none of the RPG Fallout games take place anywhere near it.

Being that wasteland wanderer-type guy just isnt as fun when society is bouncing back on its feet. I get enough of my exploration of one large and relatively coherent society in the provinces of TES, whereas I would prefer my wasteland to be as full of small divisions and eccentric societies as possible. There's certainly room for large nation-states in Fallout, but I think that they'd be better fit for a grand strategy game. If the entire NCR/Legion situation doesnt result in another collapse, I would love a follow up to New Vegas that takes the form of a strategy game controlling the nations themselves and trying to keep it all together while achieving whatever goals you set for yourself.

Actually, a strategy game with a large focus on internal affairs would be nice to play. So many of them are concerned with simple conquest, and managing a nation in the Falloutverse should involve just as many threats from within as without. Managing the democracy in the NCR or flat out cracking down on all dissent in Caesars Legion would make a great game. As mods like Elder Kings show, Bethesda's IPs are simply too interesting to corral them into a singular form of game. As awesome as Bethesda games are (And I really think they are a notch above all others in the industry), there is just so much you can do with stuff like Fallout that I would love to explore other genres as a actual developed game and not a modwork for another game.

You specifically refereed to THE dark ages in your original comment, not A dark age. Large difference in the use of a and the. You will have to pardon me for not understanding you meant something other then what you wrote.

Also, by comparison to the world that was in Fallout, not even the real world today would be "modern". Going by that standard would be pointless, as absolutely nothing could compare, thus making any sort of comparison flawed.

So you are discounting political systems that have been used in established nations, both past and present, in the real world as not being nations in-game simply because? You also answered your own question..... all of the Legions fortresses, cities, and banners are east of the Colorado river..... which we don't get to visit in-game. Which is a problem, one even admitted by the devs, that doesn't negate that they exist in lore though.

Given that even Obsidian wants the NCR and Legion dead, I suspect it will happen eventually.

I doubt Bethesda would do it themselves though, they wouldn't want to touch the backlash of that with a 10 foot pole.

Obviously, I wasn't referring to the dark ages. I think my meaning was clear, considering we're supposed to be having a conversation, a dialog. I'm not going to waste time, nit-picking little details and act like the whole idea just flew over my head because of the use of "the." Lol, I mean really. We're done.

Just speaking thematically with the whole tagline and so much content in Fallout 3 and New Vegas talking about how horrible pre-war America was it seems pretty obvious that a society wishing to emulate the old USA is just going to die.

But then the NCR of 2281 resembles a lot of popular perceptions of modern day-ish America in my eyes. Its kind of getting into politics that are verboten on these forums, but I think that Obsidian wanted the NCR to remind people of what a lot of people think about America right now and in the recent past. Especially under a man like Kimball. And there's a lot of distance between the America of 2077 and the NCR of 2281. Maybe the NCR will advance to the level of authoritarian police state that America was before the war, but there's still a lot of ground to cover. NCR, for all of its downsides, isnt literally performing experiments on POWs. Maybe the collapse won't be a outright disintegration of their society, but turning into a hellish dystopia that caused the bombs in the first place.

Maybe, but given that both Van Buren and NV just skipped straight to the bombs, I don't think that it will go into the "hellish dystopia that caused the bombs in the first place.". IMO, it will just skip straight to the bombs.

But you never know.

Now, if it did progress to that sort of dystopia that provoked a outright revolution and converted into a revolutionary government in the capital trying to win back the post-NCR states with a new radical government...That'd be something the Falloutverse hasnt really seen.

That would be pretty interesting actually.

Fallout isn't just about morality, It's about humanity at it's best and it's worst. Some people of the "wasteland" rise above the madness, some become part of it and yet others seem to do a little of both. It was humanities great achievements that lead to great discoveries in science and medicine in a "civilized society", but also caused the Great War and destroyed the world. For some reason, man is doomed to keep repeating these mistakes. War, War never changes. Humanity is like Sisyphus, doomed to roll a stone up his hill to let it roll back down over and over again, endlessly.

Jet: In Van Buren, Pablo in New Canaan was originally from New Reno. He used o work for the Mordinos and help make and distribute Jet. After moving to New Canaan, he still is a drug dealer. Jet in the CW is not implausible.

Not every place in the Fallout world is going to be as advanced as NCR, even Josh Sawyer stated in many places we will see societies "lagging behind" for various reasons. The CW was desolate after the War, just survivors trying to get into 101 that eventually became Megaton. The rest of the areas in the CW were formed later.

Followers taking a knee when low Health, enemies ignoring.

Edit: Perhaps there can be a bunker that are actually there to let inhabitants survive the nuclear war and fallout, is it not so that some US Citizens built small (or perhaps large?) bunkers during the Cold war? I dont like the story about vaults kinda just being there for experiments, but it is perhaps to late to change that story.