Don't try to backpedal, this line of your means nothing unless you meants the game shouldn't have anything from past games, because they could just make something new

Same way books written in the 4th era appear in dungeons sealed since the early 1st in a TES game, or why there is some magical force field preventing you from even attempting to hack computers until you meet a certain skill threshold, or even better yet, why skills and attributes are somehow turned into a straight linear progression of 1-100 in RPGs, when neither skills or attributes are actually linear in the real world.

Its a GAME dude, not a 100% accurate simulation.

Saying its illogical for jet to have gone to the other coast is as absurd as saying its illogical for skooma to be in Skyrim because Tamriel is the size of Africa, over three times the size of America, over 4 times the size of the Roman Empire at its greatest extent, and when Elswyer is on the other side of Tamriel from Skyrim.

Stuff moves m8, even as far back as Fallout 1 we had people like Tycho moving half way across the country and back again, the idea that it wouldn't have gotten over to the east coast in over 30 years is silly.

-I have no idea how you've gotten that I am backpedaling in anyway. Again, why do you have the need to put words in people's mouths? I have no said that. Which, btw, I'm still waiting for a quote about what you've suggested I have said. Also, why would what I say have to be "100% one way or the other, it isn't".

-Again, find a quote of mine that says I've suggested otherwise.

-How is it logical for jet to have gotten inside a container within a sealed vault from before the war when it was invented post-war?

Seriously though, if you can't have a conversation without putting words in people's mouths, then please don't bother me. I've seen this same "don't try to backpedal" BS multiple times from you towards other members. I'd rather not be a part of your need to devolve conversation with that tired line. So unless you provide a quote from me that substantiates your claims about me, then I guess the conversation is over.

Already answered that question twice m8.

It isn't, but it doesn't matter because its a game, and games are not 100% accurate simulations, and 99% of people understand and accept that.

Odd that you ask that when I answered it in the very post you quoted.

In no way gives a logical explanation. Stuff moving doesn't explain it. Comparing it to skooma doesn't explain it. Saying it's not a simulation doesn't explain it. Comparing it to TES doesn't explain it.

There you go! A straight forward answer without putting words in my mouth!

Now back to my original suggestion which you seem to have missed: Explain things, don't just throw illogical stuff in the game.

I'm in total agreement man, you gotta explain stuff in the game, can't just throw things in that make no sense. Let's hope the devs are on the same wavelength.

Why should they have to explain things that are either

A. Common sense.

B. Understood gameplay mechanics.

C. Something you logically wouldn't learn the explanation behind anyways.

Quickly, without looking it up, do you know the origin on the high five? Probably not, most people don't in fact, despite it being one of the most commonly used hand gestures. The idea that a PC on the east coast would encounter the one guy who knows the story of how something like jet made its way east is frankly absurd, and borders on the illogical.

This need to have every little thing, no matter how logical it is for it to be there, or how much of a known gameplay mechanic it is, goes beyond even the already illogical stuff like asking about who/what the NCR are...... when you came from NCR territory to begin with. It's a ridiculous level of information hand-holding that defies all believability of the world.

And they most likely wont explain most similar things in future games, because said explanation should logically be beyond the reach of the PC, like a great deal of things, including incredibly common things like high-fives are too most people in the real world.

The only things that need to be, or should be, explained are the things that differ from the real world, such as viruses like FEV, or how radiation mutates things in way it doesn't IRL.

Well, to be quite honest, I think they do a pretty good job of explaining things either way. It's funny because those points that you listed are things that developers do tend to focus some level of attention on. I'll tell you, not everything is common sense to everyone nor are all gameplay mechanics understood. I mean I still don't understand why I can't climb rocks, they still haven't explained that. And what do "they" really put in those mentats. The jury is still out on that one, but I have my own theories.

Why is there an issue with Jet on the East Coast? It is Brahmin dung vapor, that's it. How hard can that be to make? People trade, word gets out. Your going to complain when you have a talking mole rat in FO2 addicted to Cheesy Puffs???

Wow cherry picked arguments, the populations general ignorance to social action theory doesn't and never should validate ignorance of an entirely different nature.

This is the sort of casuistry I'd expect from a creationist, by this non sequitur why should there be any logical explanations?

Also it's asinine to claim that one wouldn't question or have a fettered knowledge of a political body/faction just because they live where this faction is situated.

By this logic every american has a perspicacity for american politics and an esoteric knowledge of say the republicans and the democrats...

"The only things that need to be, or should be, explained are things that differ from the real world..."

As in how the capital wasteland is bereft of agriculture but still manages to sustain a multitude of life, omnivorous life at that? Mole rats have obviously learned the art of opening a can of pork & beans and separating the beans from the pork .Let me guess we are supposed to fabricate our own interpretation of a thriving agriculture via the desiccated dirt of the wasteland...

Insert argument about NPCs not scratching their noses, so scratching there noses doesn't exist...

Argument of polarization...

Nobody is asking for abject logic just a modicum of it, Jet suffusing to the east coast and into prewar medical kits doesn't even offer a paucity of logic never mind this fallacious and polarized argument that we are exigent in our claims for abject logic.

Treasure is often discerned as garbage to the less informed...

Personally I think people are getting a little too caught up in the factions themselves and not what is more important imo, the dichotomy.

I'm not saying that the factions are lovable (not really sure what you mean by you can't love them) but what I find intriguing isn't the inefficiencies/efficiencies of any faction in isolation but conversely when each faction is contrasted against it's opposition.

I also disagree that the legion is evil by the verdict that they commit atrocities such as slavery, murder and [censored].If this is the criteria for vilification then the country anyone of us lives in could quite easily be an equal and equivalent glimpse into the abominable.

Except it isn't ignore of another nature. The PC, and many others, are wholly ignorant on the source of something, be in jet in the game world, or high-fves in the real world, its the same thing.

Because everything has a logical explanation? In this case(that being of jet appearing in places locked 200 years ago), its a game, and thus, it doesn't follow logical rules when placing items..... like most other RPGs.

Uhh no, by this logic people who live in America knows what America is, and some of the more major events happening in it. I never made any sort of comment or claim about the specifics of the government's policies or practices, just their existence and general actions.

Did you miss all the grass a bushes around the C.W.? Really, its quite common, especially the further you get outside the city. Not to mention they very visibly show you people making water purification machines to get pure water, hunting animals for food, trading with people from areas like Point Lookout for food they don't have there, raising Brahmin(in fact, there are more domesticated Brahmin in Fo3 then there are in NV according to the GECKsof both games), growing food in labs, and even scaving for the preserved pre-war food if they have to. So... the game does explain it.

Don't see why you would make that kind of argument. ts totally opposite to everything I said.... just like basically everything else in this post.

And I think that is a kind of dumb thing to ask for in RPG loot tables, especially when its been and understood and accepted practice in RPGs for decades now.

RPGs are fun because of their idiotic loot tables, removing all this stuff just makes exploration far less rewarding.

Also you are aware you can just edit your previous post when doing multiquotes.... or just hit the multiquote button so all the quotes appear in one post, instead of quadruple posting?

Agreed. Wherever there is a demand, there is a way.

Yeah, well, you gonna open up a 3k mile trade route, 6k round trip? Lol. BoS not going back and forth with you each time. Just look at all the supplies you would need just to keep yourselves alive.

Just not economically viable, when you can have a 50,100, 300 mile trade route, etc.

But it's supposed to be a plausible abstraction; and it's not.

[citation needed]

If it was meant to be plausible, then tons of things would have been radically different, even as far back as Fallout 1.

\It is what its always been, a fun game with tons of Easter eggs and [censored] that doesn't really make sense for the player to play a character in.

Well, it should be plausible as far as the game will allow it to suspend your imagination.There is a term for this, I can't remember the name of it though. You get the idea.

I think the term is suspension of imagination.

Well, kind of...

I mean it is a game, but it's not like we're playing Little Big Planet here. I'll tell ya, it's not something I'd have my kids playing, especially the originals with things like slavery and prostitution as well drug use pervading the environment of the world. Fallout is a very dark place that makes a lot of points about our own society even sarcastically. It's an important elements of the series that goes beyond it simply being a game where you kill things.

I thought you played Fallout; you should know then.

Edit: 'cause it's needed.

There is such a thing as plausibility within context. A setting is built upon that; and things are made plausible by being based in context.

It's sadly all too common for people to derisively point out whatever strikes them as impossible in our own setting, as proof that it's unrealistic in the one they are belittling.
It doesn't work like that. The fallout setting has bent physical laws; it is the setting of their popular misconceptions, but that doesn't mean that anything goes. Myron's invention of Jet is set in stone, and there should not be Jet inhalers found on the other side of the country in untouched pre-war containers.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking Fallout isn't a game which just a bunch of easters eggs and junk; definitely the creators of the game didn't think of it that way. I wouldn't even say the devs at Bethesda thought of it that way. lol

I don't think that they thought of it as anything but window dressing.

It called suspension of disbelief within the game world. Robots and lasers and such are a part of the world, so one can believe them. Contrary, of say Bilbo Baggins pulled out a HKG11 and started mowing down orcs and tossing some hand grenades halfway through the book, most readers would stop right there and be like "huh what?"

Reminds me of awful sci fi movie After Earth, I believe it is called. I watched about 15 minutes of that film before I had to stop. At this point they make a big scene about this soldier or something Will Smith saved. Bring him out in a wheel chair and he missing a leg. I thought to myself wait a minute, a movie featuring giant spaceships and interstellar travel and they can't make prosthetic limbs? Click.

Totally economically viable.
The idea is that you pick up things you need along the way- not just goods to trade down the road or rations for a crew, but safe locations and safe routes to aid in any return trip, or to be used as a trade route, once things are more established. This would be an expeditionary trip, obviously- not an instant supply line. Aaaand if anyone can get supplies for the trip, it's merchants, who are not paying cost for things and know where to get the best equipment. It takes money to make money. So while it would be difficult, it is foolish to assume that no entrepreneurial type would take the risk- particularly in light of (whether you like it or not) an Englishman sailing the entire Atlantic to do much the same type of thing.

Early american settlers made the trip. Families with wee little babies.
While they may not have faced mutated creatures and raiders (Instead, Native Americans, Bears, Mountain lions and the like.), they also didn't have the luxury of stimpacks, armor, cold fusion batteries, anything close to the weaponry seen in the FO setting, or a large military force to follow- without the liability of bringing the whole family (Instead, most likely people that are well trained caravan guard types). I would say that this even things out considerably.
We are such pussies these days. I'm not sure being a [censored] is really an option in the FO universe. It isn't about what we would do, it is what a brave, perhaps a little bit crazy, entrepreneur might do to ensure that they are the early bird.
We are such pussies these days. I'm not sure being a [censored] is really an option in the FO universe.

~200 years after the great war. How long in your opinion does it take before expeditionary types attempt to tame and reclaim the continent? Because a couple of centuries seems pretty generous to me.

i just want a 64 bit version on PC. just gives us that, and modding potential is exponential compared to skyrim.

i dream of the day where i put 8k textures on everything and have 1000 mods running together.