Electron position and momentum cannot be simultaneously known. This is not because scientists don't know, this is a given fact (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle if you wanna look it up). The beauty of science, for me, is that not everything has to be explained with a number, because not everything in life abides by an equation. Spontaneity is an actual thing.

That's science for ya! Now you know why physicists are so miserable...

My take on consciousness is more of the spiritual kind. Science has proven that there is a large quanta of energy released from your hypothalamus when you pass away, (one that isn't heat or electricity and is currently unknown). I believe the conscience is a form of energy, a substance, if you will, that is interconnected with other consciences to a certain degree (which is why you can sometimes sense a nearby person without seeing them. The so-called sixth sense). I'm deviating now, but the sheer complexity of the human brain is what really makes me love it so much

kinda

Then we will find this hidden sense and replicate it. I've only been partially following this chat. Do you believe artificial intelligence on a human level is possible? So that it is indistinguishable to a human? Yes/No? Do you believe there could be a superior intelligence created by nature/humans/something eventually? Yes/No?

Anyone ever hear about the scientist in 1899 who wanted the patent office to close since "everything has already been discovered, the only use now is applying what we know"?

Not sure if thats the exact story, but I have a feeling that we will never truly understand everything about how the universe works. Imagine living in 1899, and suggesting that in the next century the world balance of power would be based on each power having the ability to destroy the entire world and plunge us into a dark age, but that that somehow resulted in the most peaceful period of human history after their invention and first use?

Yeah...I kind of think thats how science and human history (Although I will admit I am focusing on human society a lot) is going to be for as long as we can fathom.

1. "then we will just replicate it" no, you won't. Again, not everything in the world is quantifiable. An AI can be developed so that it imitates human behavior but not in every sense. When it comes to displaying emotions/complex behavior however, the AI would most likely revert to a probability game to try to copy true human emotion. So in this aspect it would not perfectly replicate a human, although yes, it would be indistinguishable from a real person to the average human. The result would be the same, but the process used to attain that result would be inhuman.

2. I suppose that "God" would be the answer in this case. Whether you believe in one or not. One may exist on a higher plane of consciousness than humans. Its intelligence may be superior to ours. How? Well that might be as easy to explain as asking an ant whether or not it believes in aliens. Just like an insect is inferior in intelligence to a human, so too may we be inferior to a higher being.

Interesting questions

That's pretty interesting.

... And depressing, because I can't help it but think that if our conciousness is connected in a fundamental level with everything else, then maybe that life and the universe has its own agenda (given its ability to influence us, in turn), and that fate exists, and life is running on rail like a Call of Duty game!

Nothing will ever be completely comprehended....

"I know that I know nothing" --Socrates

And if fate exists, who is it governed by? Is there a superior being? Do REAL universal morals exist or is killing a bad thing just because one species on Earth decided it is?

Questions like this make my head hurt. My brain needs a rest from intellectual thinking.... YOLO 2 CHAINS CALL OF DUTY. That's better

IMO, there are only three REAL human inventions so far: Electricity, splitting the atom, and cloning a living being. The rest are just to make our life more convenient and easier. Maybe the fourth invention would be something to do with the brain, like time perception, psychokinesis, psychic and sixth sense... Or space-related like being able to open wormholes, time travel, etc...

Until then, strap in because (depends on what you believe), you and me are gonna be here for a LONG time.

We'll do it someday. We will be able to do it flawlessly. They will for all intents and purposes be humans. The world has been built atop a pile of "impossibility". I'm really sick of hearing about it too. I'm sure scientists have given people time and again the evidence to prove something is impossible, and yet here we are. Observation is one of the keys to understanding. If we can observe this energy as you put it then that is already the first step to mastering it. If you define what is a human rigidly of course anything will be different. It's simply ridiculously easy to say what is and isn't human based around such a strict criteria. Evolution happens gradually. How could one possibly track the infinite variants of humans? Would you classfy them as non humans? Even now with people alive there is such a large degree of difference between people what is standard? Define it. Prove it?

The crux of your argument seems to be that humanity can not change, has not changed, and will not change. Which is incredibly narrow minded view of things.

I have a feeling your not as unbiased on these subjects as you make yourself appear. I know belief drives us to discovery, but it has to be tempered with reason. I personally feel your own beliefs may be tampering with your ability to understand some things.

I think you've got a lot to learn. A lot. Just keep working hard though.

If you want to make a living thing so bad, then just... get it on with someone... and thus skipping all of the nonsense that we can never understand.

And since the procedure to creating another true living being has been perfected for billions of year (probably even more, depending from which solar system you believe that we hitchhiked from), so for us humans to replicate that process would take even longer, because we cannot simply recreate the "ups and downs" of evolution through math equations and laboratory condition and comforts.

If someone were to perfectly simulate the mind of a rabbit, put that on a hard drive, and wire that hard drive into a robotic body, would that constitute a "real" rabbit?

Edit: On another note, how bout them Fallout 4 rumors, eh? Sure are getting me excited. Hope there's something of substance there.

So..... are we talkin about Fallout 4 or are we arguing about some weird mind, soul conscience thing?

Are we really arguing that Androids are too advanced for Fallout?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110821201852/villains/images/0/0f/ThinkTank.png

http://i.imgur.com/nVyInA6.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121105233737/fallout/images/b/ba/Liberty_Prime_lift1.jpg

I'm pretty sure I can program a typical sterilized soldier ant with a typical lifespan of 90 days on C++ ... Unless there are scientific evidences that ants can perform psychokinesis and burn down forests while we're not looking.

They aren't too advanced, but the type of android like Harkness is WAY too modern to fit the aesthetic of 50s retro-futuristic sci-fi culture.

Ehm, Kirkbride ring a bell? Pretty sure he was an employee of Bethesda and he did almost the exact same thing.

Also, it's a poem from the 1800's. Copyright expired years ago so anyone is free to use it.

Arguing about whether or not it's possible to transplant consciousness into a robot in the real world doesn't really belong in this thread. Fallout is based on retro-futurist technology, so what's more important is does that idea fit the setting of Fallout?

Short answer: It depends upon execution and style. Androids in the terminator style wouldn't fit Fallout even remotely. The clash between Mr. Handy and the T-1000 is pretty obvious. One suits the Fallout aesthetic and the other just doesn't. John Henry Eden fits the setting because he seems like something one could find in 50s pulp science fiction. Androids do not.

True.

Indeed. Its more of a blade-runner Cyberpunk trope than the retro-futuristic one Fallout is going for. It just doesn't fit with the clunky robots that have been established thus far (yes, Liberty Prime is a clunky robot).

Closed for clean-up.

Re-opened. The topic is speculation of a game. Kindly stick to the topic.

And even if we ARE able to create a living being through billions and billions of years of experimenting, we are still only creating it upon what we know and what we can see, and it can only adapt to us. Throw it out into the unknown (which is 99.999999999999999999% of the Universe) and it will die painfully.

Don't you see how fragile we humans are? One tiny process that goes wrong with ONE CELL's mitochondria and it leads to widespread cancer throughout the entire organism and a painful death. Imagine throwing some creation of ours into space, and it will die because it accidentally snort dark matter or something... or a deviation of 0.000001% of sunlight absorbtion of its skin causing it to spontaneously combusts.

You can argue that a know-it-all religious "God" exists, because only someone who knows EVERYTHING can create the perfection that is life. But that is a paradox, because life itself proves that a race of "Gods" or a singular know-it-all God (know-it-all is impossible, because the Universe is ever-expanding) doesn't exists, given the fact that life had struggled, flourished and perfected itself on this Earth and beyond (I said beyond as well, since we haven't done so bad on the Moon landing and sending probes to other planets and systems)

We're still evolving as a species, but in a more technological way, since we, as a species, seems to have reached a plateau in evolution on this planet. Given about a few hundred years - if we don't destroy ourselves first - then we might step out of the solar system. Then a lot of us might die horribly. Then maybe we will evolve technologically. Then even more of us will die horribly. Then we will learn enough to not die as horribly (but just as much). Then we will learn to harden our skin and poop fire, so that its sterilized and kills the bacteria that can horribly murder us in a zero-grav condition.

PS: If God doesn't exists (as I just gracefully proved - sorry religious folks if that offends ya), then, Smigone, fate isn't controlled by anything. So that means we're still connected to each other, but we can do whatever the hell we want. (do mind action-reaction though)

This has been an interesting conversation.

Whoops. Stilltypingb4lock.

O.o? You really didn't... O.o?

Anywho...

Here's hoping that the next Fallout game won't be set in the Commonwealth, so all this "Can an android be considered human" stuff won't be an issue.