Fallout 4 Speculation, Suggestions and Ideas #191 : Fallout Series Discussion

» Sun May 18, 2014 2:12 am

All they NEED to do is just make the time between fast traveling from A to B correlate with time to get there.

Also, no, it's not, the fact that you can't fast travel unless you've already been there shows it's not being casually handed to you. We can go back and forth on this, but it's true and you know it. I'm sorry if being more productive with my time playing through dialogue and well written story than playing Pew Pew Pew: The Apocalypse somehow nullifies the point it's fine as it is. Beyond proper travel times, I don't need it to do 'random fight lulz' and break me off midway. It just makes me have to go through more loading time in the end AND I just wasted my money and bullets dealing with an annoying fight that would be horribly implemented. If I want to fight things, I'll walk or fast travel a couple clicks away. But when I want to enjoy the game and not playing 'killin' fer dem fun ol' tiems wit a gun', I want to fast travel. /grouch

» Sun May 18, 2014 5:10 am

See, that is why I want a fast travel mechanic similar to FO1&2 though. It means you don't have to walk all the way to an area even the first time and there isn't a 100% chance you encounter some enemies. Plus, its really the only way we can get a world on scale with those games and not be bored as all hell walking between locations.

» Sun May 18, 2014 2:26 am

Ehhh, it'd still be an issue if the world were limited cells like in Fallout or Fallout 2. It'd likely detract fans of the games if it went back to that, given how some people have become obsessed with 'Open World or nothing' view.

» Sat May 17, 2014 10:22 pm

What good does that do when time is not an issue - do you check how long it took after each fast travel and mark it down for comparisons in case you might walk or run the distance next time? I'd say there's plenty they "need" to do, if they were (and they probably aren't) to make it an interesting mechanic that, along with making the whole feature more involving and intriguing, correlates with the 'immersion' buzzword these games are advertised with and being lauded for.

Yes it is. :lol:

I never talked about "handing it over casually". I said that it (rightfully) exists to bypass the eventual tedium that you admitted to exist, and that the way it does it is cheap and uninspired at best. There are plenty of ways to do it better and more organic rather than arcade. And even without random encounters.

Ok, you lost me here. I don't think I've specified any methods in this discussion (nor have I talked about combat).

There's something horribly wrong with the whole gameplay if combat is 'pew pew for teh lulz' that one wishes to skip to get to the good parts - and that I'd agree with. :lol:

But my point is not to forcibly introduce more combat 'because combat, duh'. The point is to create a mechanic that the might want to and sometimes need to think about before using and that offers worthwhile gameplay intrigue; that it isn't just clear cut telepod feature between this themepark ride and that. I'm not even sure if random encounter would fit well with the way Beth creates their maps, but regardless, like I said already, there are plenty of ways to do it better than this mere "skip the tedium" [censored].

The best way, imo, would be as Wastelandshadow said; the original mechanic (for both, the map structure and traveling - and if the hubs are large enough, there's plenty to explore for the explorers, while the walking distances are left tolerable... and that's just one way of doing it).

» Sun May 18, 2014 4:56 am

It doesn't need to be. The world can be the size of skyrim, or larger, or even larger with procedural generation. Some may cringe at the idea of procedural generation but they are ill informed of what it can do.

» Sat May 17, 2014 2:26 pm

Fighting for your life isnt a "waste of resources." You are in an area full of hostile creatures, raiders, drug addicts, ferals, etc. Its not really possible for you to travel without getting into a fight (unless you have great sneak) and fast travel should reflect that in some way instead of it being a free ride.

You know some people want mechanics in a game to not only have a purpose but fit into the game.

Have you ever played morrowind? Thats how fast travel should be implemented: rides from major cities along with teleports from the mages guild. Its part of the games world and therefore makes the world more interesting.

Also fast travel does take from the game in its current implementation because a believable travel system isnt created. Why bother when you can just magic teleport around on a whim?

Another thing is travel can be used is to create a sense of distance. If you get around cities via caravans, or some such fast travel method, the one without a caravan route automatically feels more separated and distant. In FONV a travel system between the major cities/towns that are independent/ncr but not between legion towns would really go a long way in creating a sense seperation between the factions.

Game design shouldn't be about convenience for the sake of convenience. A convenient feature should be implemented in a way to make it fit in the game world. Like stimpacks. A healing potion with a SCIENCE! twist that makes sense in the game world.

» Sun May 18, 2014 5:06 am

I think what they are going to do for Fallout 4 are things they said they wanted to do for Fallout 3 but couldn't because of the hardware limitations of the last console generation.

2 things I discovered searching for old interviews are vehicles you can drive,and having each city to the same area as the rest of the world like the "Open Cities" mod.

I also believe they are going to improve the way guns are handled when you are not using VATS,so VATS is more optional and the player can play it more like a shooter if he so chooses to.

» Sat May 17, 2014 11:57 pm

I hope they don't do that. At least not that way, to make it (even) more like a shooter. I think they shouldn't look at it the way that "everybody wants a postnuclear Farcry 3 and even CoD has some pussified character progression instruments somewhere down there (didn't Todd make comparisons to CoD's MP stat system in some interview?), so let's FPS the combat to the max", but as an alleged RPG developer rather think of ways to create rewarding rulesystem that actually governs the gameplay and makes the character progression an interesting task throughout the game.

» Sun May 18, 2014 4:56 am

I would not mind a few shooter elements. Like sprinting, a grenade hotkey, or even leaning out to fire from cover. As long your effectiveness is tied to your skills in some way like how project nevada (mod for FONV) does it.

One thing they really need to add, imo, is pistol whipping/rifle butting, or least a knife attack hotkey.

» Sat May 17, 2014 9:51 pm

No that sounds like Sims. It doesn't have to do with fallout at all. Fallout has its traits and personalities, Simms is not apart of that.. Is it really fun to sit in a shop all day talking to generic NPCs? And I don't understand why you said less like New Vegas when New Vegas offered that and Fallout 3 did not. You could work at the caravans and you could work for shops in New Vegas.. Lol you could work for bandits and slavers too in New Vegas. I understand that a fallout may have had some traits you want so much. But I want Bethesda to first nail a fallout before they add these sideshows in. Fallout 3 wasn't good enough, perhaps Fallout 4 will show they can make a fallout game in the image of the older. Things such as morals, freedom to make choices, and consequences (either lasting or immediate).

» Sun May 18, 2014 1:58 am

I see fast travel as a narrative tool. The first time you travel from point A to point B you have to hoof it and experience the journey to put it into perspective. After that, the journey can be glossed over in favor of the next act in the narrative. It's like on a cop show when the detectives are standing around the precinct talking about the case and the Chief tells them to go question a particular witness or suspect. The next scene shows the detectives arriving at the home or office of their target, the intervening car ride having been skipped.

You control your narrative and you control whether you want to skip through the gritty details unimportant to it. I don't often fast travel in Bethesda games, but it depends. If I have to go to a place I haven't been to recently (like to Rivet City from Megaton) I'll generally hoof it and fight my way there. But on the return trip when I know that I won't run into anything because it takes three days for the route to respawn I'll fast travel through what I know will be an uneventful run.

» Sat May 17, 2014 4:06 pm

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/18/apparently-we-wont-hear-about-fallout-4-for-a-while/

Won't be hearing 'bout it for a while, ladies and gents.

» Sat May 17, 2014 10:46 pm

Darn it bethesda!

» Sat May 17, 2014 3:20 pm

That tells us nothing more than we already know, which is pretty much nothing. Bethesda could come out tomorrow and say, "Guess what, guys. Next week Fallout 4 will finally hit the shelves. Happy gaming folks!!!"

Of course I seriously doubt that will ever happen, but the point remains that Beth are notoriously tight lipped about things until they are ready to speak about it. We just don't know when the time will come. Could be next week, could be this time next year.

» Sun May 18, 2014 5:40 am

I wish they'd fix that. It's fine for TES if they want, but the Fallout series did not artificially restrict where the player could roam if they wished. I'd greatly prefer and appreciate it if they would extrapolate where I clicked on the map, and have my PC appear there; (minus the appropriate travel time, and provided there was nothing aggressively preventing them from reaching that location).

In an RPG [specifically], I prefer to have the markers IF the PC is implied to know where those locations are; my being lost should never impede the PC's understanding of where they are in relation to known locations... But I'd be fine with less than accurate markers, markers whose precision depended on the PC's outdoorsman skill, and reflected their mistakes (if they had them).

» Sat May 17, 2014 4:48 pm

» Sat May 17, 2014 8:01 pm

Because every caravan is constantly being attacked by endless hordes of bandits. You're talking about regular quests, the game is already chock full of those. Fallout needs more better quests, not simplistic, repeatable "go kill x things" quests like this.

» Sat May 17, 2014 9:11 pm

I would enjoy that as well- for the right character of course.

my main point (which my have been lost in my [censored]y ramble -_- ) is the game needs to feel more like a real place and needs to really challenage the player in some way. Events and people behaving in a realistic way would go a long way to pulling you into the game world and drawing the player in. Not random kings members giving me treats (are they not supposed to be resoruce scrapped), or magical map markers leading directly to a supposed long, lost cavern is the exact opposite of that, or the ability to teleport for no in-game reason.

It honestly makes me sick that people, like the guy i quoted, even bother play these games. What are they getting out of them that they can't get of CoD or the million other mindless shoot'em up games out there? He says he wants to "get to the story" but the "tedious" elements he complains about are part of that story- at the very least b/c they help set the mood. What makes that long lost, far away dungeon feel long lost and far away? It actually being those things.

» Sat May 17, 2014 2:42 pm

it really depends on the quest. If the questgiver or PC would know the location ("raiders are squatting at my house. please kick them out") than an extremely precise map maker is logical and realistic. i am all for that. There should be a correlation between questgiver and/or PC knowledge of the location and how accurate the marker is.

Honestly, i just miss how directions were given in morrowind. That is how it should be done. They mentioned roads, crossroads, physical features, nearby landmarks, etc. It was great, and extremely immerisve, because that is how real people give directions. Not, "head east to fort blah blah."

» Sat May 17, 2014 7:37 pm

I don't really consider sprinting a "shooter element". I could be a neat element in trying to escape from a situation where you conclude that you are not going to survive. Not too fond of grenade key, but I guess it's of no harm as long as the characters performance with it is tied to an appropriate skill (instead of just lobbing them around like in a regular shooter).

Riflebutting and pistolwhipping feel a bit redundant with a specific melee skill and an array of specific melee weapons already around. It could be interesting, though, if there was a sort of "melee engagement" system that greatly hindered and with certain gun types outright prevented shooting in close combat (by te enemy dodging or shoving the barrel away from him), and pistolwhipping was the gunslingers last resort to attempt to detach from the enemy by staggering him (but not really damaging much at all) and get some distance (sprinting, perhaps) to be able to properly shoot again.

» Sat May 17, 2014 5:43 pm

what kinda annoid me,was that you cant communicate/answer/say the things you want if your speech isnt high anough,i think it would be cool,if you just can say/answer anything you want without updating speech(and also barter/charisma etc),so that you only have to update physical stuff like guns/mellee/unarmed

maybe it would be possible to type/give your own answers,so your own (real)intellect is tested :clap:

its kindof anoing when you see the answer you want to give but you cant,because your speech is to low,so you have to come back later in the game if possible/or parts of the game is not develloped the way you wanted

for example in Big MT the "robot"Dalia i cant do the quest because my "perception"is 1or2 points to low,but there`s still a lot of other stuf i want to update before i get to level 50,so i will not be able to now what that sixy girly robot history is :blush: :bunny:

1 thing i thought was strange,(even this is 1 of the most Fun and Realistic games i played)is the when you shoot some 1 in the head-upclose with a "saved-of shotgun"/or far with the "anti material rifle")the person should be Dead at once,no matter what kind of protecting cloding they wearing when the face is not protected(wich never is) the should Die after 1 clean hit,really strange when you shoot a dude int the head from 2 feet distance with a shotgun,he`s still coming for yeh,even when the gun is low on value,when it fire`s it should kill a enemy/person(maybe not a deatclaw or other mutulated thing)when you shoot it in the head.Now it looks like the bullit comes out with 10 mpu or something :glare:

» Sat May 17, 2014 3:00 pm

I never said as main quests or even side-quests. Occupations or small jobs should just be for the sake of stat building. They'd be optional for just for the times where players want to take breaks from the quests for optional replayable acitivities to grind outside quest specific goals or get extra caps. Though jobs wouldn't be boring like making pies or boring escort missions... just lore friendly tasks society interactions that expand on how the narrative describes life in the game. Its for people interested on building or expanding who their character is.

» Sat May 17, 2014 5:00 pm

Please, tell me you're joking.

» Sat May 17, 2014 8:54 pm

this is something i would want, too

Same for a "Grenade-Hotkey" and a "Melee-Attack-Key" (I would want it this way: If you chose a melee-weapon (in a melee-weapon-slot) then your character attacks with that, if you do not have one in the slot, then you rifle-butt them or pistole-whip the enemy)

Oh and i want the option to switch between weapons really fast (like having 3+ weapon-slots (+1 melee-slot as mentioned) so that you can switch weapons as the situation demands, without having to open the pip-boy, scrolling the weapons-screen etc. - i mean, in close combat i love shotguns, but they are nearly useless at a distance, were i like to use sniper-rifles and energy-weapons etc....and it would fix the problem of certain weapons not being ideal for close-combat anyway, like say a "FatMan"-Rocketlauncher)

oh and i want a character-"dress-up"-screen (like MMOs and other RPGS (like say Dragon Age) have) where i can equip my stuff (fill weapon slots, decide on which armor to wear etc.) and more Upgrades for your equipment (not only for weapons, but for armor, too)

And i would love more IMPLANTS (i loved those in FO:NV)

greetings LAX

ps: i am not a freakin' troll - i just happen to have a (very!) different oppinion compared with many old-school RPG-Lovers (and i played a lot of those games in my youth, too - i just don't like that tedium anymore, call me spoiled if you want, but i like convenience and don't feel the need for something to be hard, for hardnesses sake!)

» Sun May 18, 2014 1:52 am

It be more thrilling if rather than quick travel you have to ride a caravan and have to protect it from enemy gunfiring. I dont know how tedious it might get but a form of random encounter when you use it. It adds more to the game experience rather than just being able to teleport anywhere with no struggle. It in general feels out of place to me knowing that no other other NPC can do it, it feels unrealistic especially at times where you can use it to escape mob attacks.

To be honest I'd rather more FPS themed side-quests in general where you are swamped by enemy factions all shooting everywhere and you had to infultrate into certain areas to kill people or blow up stuff.