idea a grappling hook or a rope ladder or a rope. So you can get on top the houses or climb a fence and not have to go around.

They won't do anything that puts the player on a pedestal ~when it's combat position related. The AI cannot handle elevated platforms ~accessible by ladders.
(That's why you don't see any that can be climbed.)

Look, here is an example using Oblivion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26jNsPlO90
(This uses no mods or exploits.)

What event do you think they will show fallout 4 at?

I am not trying to get a combat advantage. I am talking about get on the houses to see a long distance a way. The one advantage would be going over the fence so you do not have to go through a heavily guarded gate. But I can see how some people would use it as a advantage. But not all them would.

Today E now

@lighthouse

How do we know that Bethesda is showing off an RPG?

I think the problem regarding android looks can be (at least partially) solved in an elegant way.

A3-21 is the 21st replica of the A3 series and represents the pinnacle of artificial humanity ("synths") in terms of resemblance of a real human.

Before the A3 series, there was an A1 (resembling the 'AI' abbr. and translating into 'Artificial Human series number 1') and an A2 series.

After it came an A4 series.

The synths created an A0 series (which also got names right from the start) after they were freed (and freed themselves) from the gripe of the institute and began replicating themselves in order to establish the synths as rightful heirs of the human race.

So we have A0-01, A0-02, ..., A1-01, A1-02, ....................., A4-99, A4-A1, A4-A2, ..., A4-B1, etc.

These labellings indentify the synths, first as products and belongings of the institute, later as prideful symbols of their otherness from humans (this would be a new concept from Fallout 4 as Harkness tried to actually be human in Fallout 3)

They are marked in the frontals of any synth that didn't want to get rid of it or wasn't used as for example a spy.

Also no synth created was ever as lifelike as A3-21 as that was a specific design goal of the A3 series. The A4 series took advantage of this (they were for example six slaves) but never achieved the perfection that Zimmer and his team did with A3-21.

Now to the actual problems I see with androids in Fallout:

The first big problem I think we have with synths is that they're used (among other uses, specifically as spies against humans/other synths - see SRB - the Synth Retention Bureau) as slave workers (robots and machines can do a better job at this, while being far less expensive and easier to maintain) as established by Fallout 3.

My solution for this would be to have the enslaved synths be formerly free synths that were mostly all created by the synths/the Railroad in order to establish their race (community spirit) and later enslaved by the institute when they seized the opportunity to gain power again.

They used a giant broadcasting station (in a similar way to the means of control that can be used with Harkness) to manipulate their synthetic minds over a great distance and enslaved them to put them into their rightful places and send a signal to anyone that dared to oppose the institute.

The possibility of controlling a synths artificial brain in this already preprogrammed way is used as a means of showing their state as machines.

The second one is that stories who use artificial humans/intelligence can be always broken down to one (or both) of only two thematic concepts, which are in my opinion very stale and no longer original.*

The first one revolves around the question of what makes a human or does an AI have the same rights as a human being. This is usually answered with yes, at least by the good guys and is thus an uninteresting problem.

The second concept is that of the AI actually achieving a "higher" evolutionary stage than humans and thus would either destroy humanity or enslave it (possibly even to protect it). We basically already had this with the Master and his army.

My suggestion here would be to instead have Fallout 4 critically deal with the concept of freedom and the dualism of freedom and security.

*Both of the concepts of course absolutely need to come into play whenever someone creates AI, they are logical questions that need to be asked. I just don't want them as the centerpieces of Fallout 4's story.

As you alluded to, androids aren't original and their plight for freedom and rights has been exhausted and thematically it's a desiccated concept.

I've argued this topic before a lot so I can't really muster up the will to debate this again (especially the technology needed for androids and whether it makes sense in the fallout universe) but I do feel androids detract from the series and it's focus on humanity. Rights, freedom, worth as a civilian or person and a litany of other sociological issues can be approached in more interesting ways like Caesar's legion IMO has proved rather than with the desiccated android trope.

I think people are making a little too much out of the androids. IF they are in Fallout 4, I have serious doubts they would be the entire focus of the main quest. Fallout does have a plethora of side quests available, so if they are in, then it's very likely it'll be as one of those instead.

Let's not jump the gun on FO4's storyline before we even know 100% that Beth is even working on it. It just doesn't make any sense.

Why shouldn't suggestions (see the thread title) be also suggestions about story?

Also the synths are a force I imagine to be on the same level as the Master's Army regarding their relevance to the story and they hence need to be heavily featured in a (yes, it's possible!) Commonwealth scenario.

I can understand you, but my interest with the synths isn't only rooted in their mere existence in Fallout, but also in the (in my opinion) rather poor way they were introduced in Fallout 3. And it's because of this that I think they need to be featured in a future Fallout game, as they need to be fleshed out (more so than other poor introductions or executions).

Where did you ever get the idea I don't know what thread I'm posting in?

My point is that people seem to be so focused on androids being central to the plotline, when we don't even know with absolute certainty that Beth is even working on FO4. I'm not bashing your idea, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm saying that assuming they are the focus, is premature, nothing more nothing less. Don't read more into it than what's already there.

You suggested to not jump to the gun on the storyline of Fallout 4 when we don't know nothing about it. Thus I got the idea that you didn't like to speculate about story in general. I never said that was a wrong or bad attitude or that you didn't know what thread this is (okay, maybe I implied that ), but I think this is a very interesting topic to discuss about, the same way vehicles or fast traveling or balancing or any other topics we know nothing of are.

And you're right it's premature. But nobody has yet disproven the myth that some gamesas employees checked out boston in 2012, am I right?

By the way I want the synths to appear in Fallout 4 for the reasons I've stated. This is a suggestion, not a speculation. They should deal with them in a creative and original way and not let them rot as 'another themepark-mistake of Fallout 3 with no relevance whatsoever' (in the eyes of some fans, a viewpoint I can understand).

Them checking boston was a hoax. Atleast that's what I heard

I love the idea of a way to scale walls. I think a rope ladder might be a bit much though. A grappling hook would do nicely. I would also like it to be fully upgradable and animated. There are many tactical advantages as well as story advantages to this. To many to really say. Would make exploring really interesting. We should also be able to get a mountain climber axe that helps us get higher and reach other places and he/she/it automatically uses it when necessary. (Added to my suggestions.)

I do not like the idea of AP period. Should be completely be replaced by animations, stamina, and power.

As much as i think about it, my main concern is that those so much human-looking andro?ds that they needed a huge quantity of work/time/ressources/knowledge/skills/insert any word to be made, that it would be a total waste to use them as simple slaves. they cost incredibly more to produce that the little benefit to have them rather than proper slaves.

If they were used as spies into other factions, or as sleeper agents, made in a limited number, to serve very specific and very important purposes, it would make a little more sense. (but really a few of them, and tasks that are really worth it, not just scientist bodyguard)

And enough elements to show that the commonwealth didn't suffered much casualty, stayed civilized during and after the war, and kept improving their technologies during 200 years, withouth worrying much about food/water shortage and wasteland dangers.

It's already in the lore that they are slaves though. And though it might seem morally wrong and illogical from our point of view, it is nevertheless a prediction by many that we as a race would do this. Or that someone from our race would. It's a kind of literary exploration of slavery. Does it just apply to humans? You do bring up an interesting point though. We don't know exactly what all these slaves are doing. We know that some of them hunt other slaves. Some do not know they are slaves. Some models might be better than others. The lower tier models that are most numerous might only be used for menial labor. There is a lot to speculate about there.

The best example I can think of in terms of robotic slavery would probably be how we are now building robots to take care of the elderly. They are perhaps the most human like we have. We are ten to twenty years off from anything as advanced as what is in fallout 3.

They have of course found the obvious secret military facility that just happens to be there and that just happens to have all they need to produce an army's worth of androids (of all things) into slavery.

Is it really morally wrong to 'enslave' a robot? My computer does exactly what I tell it without question... is that 'robotic slavery' or not? Machines are built to follow orders. If we get stuck in Boston and the MQ involves the Institute, I will have no problem returning their property to them. I would be happier if, as naossano said, these human-like androids were used for something other than harvesting crops, like espionage. It could even explain the need for the Androids to have some (arguable) sentience as the field requires quick, creative thinking at times.

You missed the point. The point is that there is not much wrong with enslaving non sentient computers, (I think anyway.) but where is the line? We certainly do not know.

Jump the gun?

Androids are in Fallout 3, they've (bethesda) already made what is IMO an egregious mistake for a litany of reasons but as someone else said it's a worn out desiccated trope at this point with little to no room for creativity and Bethesda went a head and used it anyway

Yeah there's no guarantee that they will or won't be in Fallout 4 but there's already a precedent for androids in a Bethesda Fallout game that's an ample reason to be alarmed, again IMO.The fact there's a plausible possibility that we could have Fallout 4 in Boston with androids being centric to the main story is disconcerting...

@Butch

You missed my point. My point was that there is no difficult grey moral decision. Either you believe a machine is a machine, or you don't. A good plot about androids is a difficult thing to do, but I sincerely hope that we won't get stuck to a MQ were we have to decide to free or enslave robots. TO me, that is not a good story, or even a slightly compelling decision.

Edit:

Personally, I hope that we never go to Boston for any future Fallout game simply because androids exist there. The most I would be willing to have is a side quest, or maybe a DLC, though it would probably be my least favorite DLC. IMO, the concept is not deserving of a MQ

There are slaves like people owned that do [censored] task all day, die everyday without anyone caring.

And slaves because of they are owned and refused free will, while still doing important task. The slave status comme from the two reasons stated, not for all the things we imagine when we picture ourselves slaves.

If they have to come back, which isn't required, i hope they come in the second category and aren't just labor slaves.

Well we know that... but if the PC can get on a house, then what are ~for instance, reaver ghouls supposed to do; they would just run around the house ineffectively ~like the fighter did in Oblivion. That's what I meant by the example. A grapple hook would enable that problem; hence I doubt we would see a grappling hook.

A3-21 is a reference to Star Wars, not an indication of some grander scheme.

Furthermore, A3-21 can be simply the serial number, in the X0-00 format.

Perhaps it was a mutual misunderstanding then. Still I think my point of where the line of sentience is provides plenty of morally gray area to explore. As for the quality of the writing that is up to bethesda to hire someone competent enough to write their story. I do hope they splurge with the writing.

I hope they go to boston just to show people that it's not all about these androids. People here seem to focus on them and it was not even the main focus of that quest. Sure they are androids, but it's the fact that morality is not always so cut and dry and it was somewhat ambiguous. Have I done something wrong by helping to get this slave back? You might think that is an issue of right or wrong and that's it, but it is a highly complicated issue. So much so that people studying the american civil war have the misconception that that's all the war was about. They even think that Abraham Lincoln freed all the slaves when he just freed the ones in the south and they think he intended to do it when he just said, "If I could win the war by not freeing a single slave I would and if I could win the war by freeing all the slaves I would. It was a kind of footnote to the war that made it more interesting to study in history. Which is what I imagine boston would be like similarly.