Fallout 4: Speculation, Suggestions and Ideas # 42 : Fallout Series Discussion

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:39 pm

People don't play lore nor do most people care about it, and just enjoy an interesting game experience.

Sure, but should the lore suffer for it? And shouldn't the gameplay portray what the lore has stated?
The lore is after all the canon material.
Myron survived several stab wounds and gunshots in Fallout 2, yet in the end he dies from a stabwound in Reno in one of the ending sliders.

We have nothing on MWBOS apart from a minor reference in Fallout 3 and Tactics, and seeing as how Legion Centurions is decorated with power armor pieces I'd say they aren't doing too well to lose to Legion.

Spoiler

That Enclave squad in New Vegas does after all cut through Legion like butter in one of the ending sliders.

So saying they are improving? There's as far as I know no evidence of that.
If anything, Legion's centurions are evidence against it. Though they "could" just have fought a third faction unnamed to us that used power armors, but that's a bit of a stretch IMO.

And Lyons Brotherhood (Not CWBOS, they are hardly bOS anymore.) could barely do anything at all prior to the Lone Wanderers help.
Now think about it, Talon Company wants to sabotage the Capital Wasteland and now LB because of the water purifier.
They still have super mutants to deal with as they have not destroyed Vault 87 yet.
They have raiders now equipped with Enclave gear to worry about.
They have Ashur who's likely going to be pretty damn pissed at them.
They have enclave remnants left to fight.
And Crawler and Raven Rock filled with good stuff for them to use they destroyed not to mention that the Outcasts are probably going to be furious to their disregard of tech.
So how exactly are Lyons Brotherhood going to progress? They've made too many enemies, they could hardly stand against the super mutants and raiders, now they have even more enemies and only slightly better tech.
They won the fight against the Enclave, but now LB is weakened, and their number of enemies has increased.
And remember, quanity>quality if the quanity is big enough. (Helios One)
So eventually Lyons Brotherhood will either die or be forced to leave. (That's how I predict it at least.)

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:23 am

Sure, but should the lore suffer for it? And shouldn't the gameplay portray what the lore has stated?
The lore is after all the canon material.
Myron survived several stab wounds and gunshots in Fallout 2, yet in the end he dies from a stabwound in Reno in one of the ending sliders.

We have nothing on MWBOS apart from a minor reference in Fallout 3 and Tactics, and seeing as how Legion Centurions is decorated with power armor pieces I'd say they aren't doing too well to lose to Legion.

Spoiler

That Enclave squad in New Vegas does after all cut through Legion like butter in one of the ending sliders.

So saying they are improving? There's as far as I know no evidence of that.
If anything, Legion's centurions are evidence against it. Though they "could" just have fought a third faction unnamed to us that used power armors, but that's a bit of a stretch IMO.

And Lyons Brotherhood (Not CWBOS, they are hardly bOS anymore.) could barely do anything at all prior to the Lone Wanderers help.
Now think about it, Talon Company wants to sabotage the Capital Wasteland and now LB because of the water purifier.
They still have super mutants to deal with as they have not destroyed Vault 87 yet.
They have raiders now equipped with Enclave gear to worry about.
They have Ashur who's likely going to be pretty damn pissed at them.
They have enclave remnants left to fight.
And Crawler and Raven Rock filled with good stuff for them to use they destroyed not to mention that the Outcasts are probably going to be furious to their disregard of tech.
So how exactly are Lyons Brotherhood going to progress? They've made too many enemies, they could hardly stand against the super mutants and raiders, now they have even more enemies and only slightly better tech.
They won the fight against the Enclave, but now LB is weakened, and their number of enemies has increased.
And remember, quanity>quality if the quanity is big enough. (Helios One)
So eventually Lyons Brotherhood will either die or be forced to leave. (That's how I predict it at least.)

What's LB you metioned it twice in your post but I'm not sure what it is.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:54 pm

What's LB you metioned it twice in your post but I'm not sure what it is.

Lyons
Brotherhood

;)

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:19 pm

Where do you guys think that Fall Out 4 should take place? I think it'd be very interesting to see post-apocalyptic Hawaii. The picture perfect pre-war Island paradise turned into a living hell with mutated insects and animals, active volcanoes and despicable gangs of marauders and bandits.

It'd be a nice mix of Urban, Jungle and Mountainous areas to explore. Naval aspects could even be implemented into the game, like having the ability to travel to other islands, or, of course, pirates.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:52 pm

Hello. I'm going to keep my suggestion short since I'm typing this on my iphone. Add a new powerhouse to the current, existing factions in the fallout universe. Have this new contender located in southeast America -- Florida maybe? And at the heart of this story is you-- founder of said faction-- and how your faction became a powerhouse. You could have factional relations, like new Vegas, except this time around you're slicing a piece of the American Pie for yourself. You could add town building which would be a nice place to introduce companions or send recruitments too. You could prospect materials or takeover facilities that'd improve and ensure survival of your faction. As for the storyline, you can have major assets your township needs to survive as waypoints, with each asset getting progressively more ambitious I.e. Powerstations, uranium mines, weapon silo, vehicles for trading purposes, GECK, slaves? -for those of evil nature-, etc.
As for the people your against, it could be the enclave, brotherhood of steel, a fragment of Caesars army, a mutant civilization, a AI civilization, etc. Id also like the option of being a mutant or robot in character creation. And one last thing, the new faction could be a network of vaults that was mentioned briefly in fallout 2. Hope the devs check this out.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:25 pm

My biggest suggestion for Fallout 4, is not letting Obsidian develop it. Please for the love of god, don't turn the Creation Engine over to them, and let them make another technical abomination. Put Obsidian only on the STORY side of the game, and folks at Bethesda you develop it yourselves.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:53 pm

What are some ideas of vaults you guys want to see? I was thinking of some sort of vault where you have to take some sort of intelligence test, and if you get below a certain score, you are exiled from the vault. Just a rough idea of something I though of.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:37 am

My biggest suggestion for Fallout 4, is not letting Obsidian develop it. Please for the love of god, don't turn the Creation Engine over to them, and let them make another technical abomination. Put Obsidian only on the STORY side of the game, and folks at Bethesda you develop it yourselves.

I liked what they did with New Vegas. What do you think makes it a technical abomination?

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:11 pm

I liked what they did with New Vegas. What do you think makes it a technical abomination?

PS3 version. :facepalm: :brokencomputer:

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:55 am

How about this for a totally new game-set it in an area which has never been done before, and isn't too close to the areas which have been done, and create totally new factions. no BOS, no Enclave, no NCR, no Legion, no Super Mutants, just original, totally new factions

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:40 pm

How about this for a totally new game-set it in an area which has never been done before, and isn't too close to the areas which have been done, and create totally new factions. no BOS, no Enclave, no NCR, no Legion, no Super Mutants, just original, totally new factions

I don't like it.
If they're gonna spend years on making a new Fallout game then I'd rather have one that has some connections to past games in order to canonize the choices we could make.
Setting it at a completely new area with no connection to previous games is wasteful IMO.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:49 pm

So how exactly are Lyons Brotherhood going to progress?

With a positive attitude, and ambition. Which is something the MJBoS lacked, if they're gonna cry in their hole they won't get anywhere.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:56 am

With a positive attitude, and ambition.

Doesn't matter how positive you are or how great of an ambition you have to make the world a better place if you have Talon Company, Raiders, Super Mutants, Enclaver Remnants and possibly Outcasts breathing down your neck.
As for Tactics, again, we know nothing of how they've progressed or declined.
We know a small note from Fallout 3 and that Centurions are decorated with PA pieces.

So I wouldn't say either of them are good hopes of survival of the BOS. (Let alone that Lyons Brotherhood is any form of BOS anymore either.)

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:33 pm

We have nothing on MWBOS apart from a minor reference in Fallout 3 and Tactics, and seeing as how Legion Centurions is decorated with power armor pieces I'd say they aren't doing too well to lose to Legion.

Spoiler

That Enclave squad in New Vegas does after all cut through Legion like butter in one of the ending sliders.

So saying they are improving? There's as far as I know no evidence of that.
If anything, Legion's centurions are evidence against it. Though they "could" just have fought a third faction unnamed to us that used power armors, but that's a bit of a stretch IMO.

Or they could have come across a stash of PA like Lyons did. They didn't know how to use it, and gutted it like NCR did when they got their hands on PA. Or the stash they came across was damaged pretty bad and they tok the only part they had any use for. Or the Legion are getting the PA parts off dead NCR heavy troopers from other locations. They leave the res behind, NCR cleans up the battlefield and takes the armour back. The MWBoS did not have T-45 power armour.

Lore wise tells us of food riots in cities like Denver. So the PA parts could be coming from damaged suits left behind, by the people sent in to control the riots.

Centurion armor contains a shoulder plate from T-45d Power Armor. NCR Salvaged Power Armor does not have those shoulder plates, but I don't see that as hard proof that the Legion has defeated the MWBoS in Colorado.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:42 pm

Or they could have come across a stash of PA like Lyons did. They didn't know how to use it, and gutted it like NCR did when they got their hands on PA. Or the stash they came across was damaged pretty bad and they tok the only part they had any use for. Or the Legion are getting the PA parts off dead NCR heavy troopers from other locations. They leave the res behind, NCR cleans up the battlefield and takes the armour back. The MWBoS did not have T-45 power armour.

Lore wise tells us of food riots in cities like Denver. So the PA parts could be coming from damaged suits left behind, by the people sent in to control the riots.

Centurion armor contains a shoulder plate from T-45d Power Armor. NCR Salvaged Power Armor does not have those shoulder plates, but I don't see that as hard proof that the Legion has defeated the MWBoS in Colorado.

I never said defeated, just that they combated them.
And the armor pieces are strapped on to prove their worth, to show what kind of challenges they faced and conquered so I doubt the PA pieces is gonna be written off as "Oh but they found a stash of PA and dissected it."
Centurions are meant to be decorated the way they are to show just how much of lean mean killing machines they are, saying they found PA pieces devalues their lore.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:31 am

I never said defeated, just that they combated them.
And the armor pieces are strapped on to prove their worth, to show what kind of challenges they faced and conquered so I doubt the PA pieces is gonna be written off as "Oh but they found a stash of PA and dissected it."
Centurions are meant to be decorated the way they are to show just how much of lean mean killing machines they are, saying they found PA pieces devalues their lore.

True you didn't say defeated.

I do feel the two groups are coming into contact with one another. If NCR can fight and win against BoS, so can the Legion's best. I doubt that the Legion are winning against them. Like NCR, they "win" when the BoS run out of ammo and are forced to go back to the next defensible position. I can see Centurions ambushing small groups of MWBoS in the mountains.

The problem is, the MWBoS did not have T-45d power armour. They also didn't have enough PA for every single member. Only the elite within the MWBoS get PA. Everyone else makes do with metal or leather armours. Again their PA was not T-45d.

The Legion could be getting the part off dead NCR heavy troopers from to other areas. Taking it as a sign of how tought they are. Would explain why NCR Heavy troops don't have that part and the Legion do.

I really don't like the Idea of the MWBoS being like every other Brotherhood. I love them because they aren't. Not everyone gets PA and their PA wasn't crap T-45d. I don't buy the idea that the PA parts are coming from MWBoS.

Tribels have come across busted up PA before and used parts. Legion could be coming across damaged suits and using useful parts. Or they could be getting it from NCR heavy troopers. Third party Faction with PA doesn't sounds stupid to me. The Shi had PA. Why is PA only for the BoS and Enclave?

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:07 pm

True you didn't say defeated.

I do feel the two groups are coming into contact with one another. If NCR can fight and win against BoS, so can the Legion's best. I doubt that the Legion are winning against them. Like NCR, they "win" when the BoS run out of ammo and are forced to go back to the next defensible position. I can see Centurions ambushing small groups of MWBoS in the mountains.

The problem is, the MWBoS did not have T-45d power armour. They also didn't have enough PA for every single member. Only the elite within the MWBoS get PA. Everyone else makes do with metal or leather armours. Again their PA was not T-45d.

The Legion could be getting the part off dead NCR heavy troopers from to other areas. Taking it as a sign of how tought they are.

I really don't like the Idea of the MWBoS being like every other Brotherhood. I love them because they aren't. They all don't get PA and their PA wasn't crap T-45d. I don't buy the idea that the PA parts are coming from MWBoS.

Tribels have come across busted up PA before and used it. Legion could be coming across damaged suits and using useful parts. Or they could be getting it from NCR heavy troopers.

True, but as of now we know nothing about MWBOS, who knows? Maybe they hit a vault and carried a virus with them back to base and accidentally infected everyone and died?
Just saying, we know nothing.
All we have is a slight reference in Fallout 3 and the Centurions armor pieces and those armor pieces could have been taken off of others but considering MWBOS and Legion are very close to one another and that the Heavy Troopers are explained to guard the Brahmin Barons and other wealthy people back west and since Legion technically lost the first battle and haven't been moving too far into the west since then I don't see how they got those pieces off of NCR's Heavies.

I do want to know more about the MWBOS and I do hope they are different, but the only piece of evidence I've seen of them is Centurions armor pieces.
And I'm a little rusty on this but doesn't someone in the Legion say that they've fought BOS before?
Caesar says that they could very well take out the Mojave Chapter on their own but that it would take a lot of legionnaires lives to do so.
If he knows for sure that they can take them out then I'm sure they've fought them before, and only BOS I know of that far east apart from the previous CWBOS is the MWBOS.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if they ever adress the MWBOS.

Anyway, back to the point, Western BOS is in a decline, Lyons Brotherhood has made a crapload of enemies and are somewhat weakened from their battle with the Enclave and MWBOS has not been adressed as of yet apart from Centurions and Caesar's speech which implies having fought them before.
So are they progressing?
IMO:
Western? No.
Eastern? I don't see how they are with the amount of enemies they've gained, so no. (They only progressed because of the LW's help, without her they're screwed)
MidWestern? Unknown, but it's hinted towards that they have lost against Legion a couple of times, whether they lost anything major or just 20 soldiers in total remains to be seen.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:08 pm

I agree, we know next to nothing about the MWBoS since the events of Fallout Tactics. That's over 80 years. I really hope that Bethesda does let us know about them other then a small group in Chicago. If the parts are hints that the Legion and MWBoS are coming into contact in Colorado, then I see it as a good sign. Means the MWBoS could still be in Colorado around Vault Zero.

Bethesda, you have said the Canon events of Tactics are canon. I really hope you stick to the idea that not everyone in the MWBoS get PA.

I would love it if you based the MWBoS off of the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 to Fallout Tactics :fallout:

Here is my idea of what happened to the MWBoS since the ending of Tactics

Spoiler

"I really hope the Barnaky ending is canon. The story would be awesome. Enclave in Chicago would be a lot like the MWBoS that have started to form a fascist military dictatorship that goes from Chicago to Colorado but the Enclave would have had to change as well. Despite the BoS acting a lot like them they are still impure in the eyes of the Enclave but if the Enclave in the area were smart they could become allies with the BoS.

Way I see it. The MWBoS fight a bloody war against the Super Mutants and then the Calculator. They force settlements to aid them by giving food, ammo and their best and brightest. Many people do join willingly but the BoS treat them as cannon fodder. The Elders let mutations join because they can be very useful in places humans can't due to radiation.

Vault Zero falls to the BoS and Barnaky becomes one with the Calculator. The BoS are happy to have General Barnaky back. There is a push to make him the head Elder of the MWBoS. The famed warrior (you) who is also a General backs the move to make Barnaky the new head elder, which he does become.

He soon recalls all mutations from the BoS armies and orders them back to their home bases were they are disarmed and tagged, later to be sent to work camps. BoS stops letting mutations join. Laws are passed and any mutation within the BoS' territory is to be rounded up and also sent to camps (work/death camps) which are the start of the great betrayal.

Elders that were most against Barnaky becoming head elder are removed from power. Soon purges happen with in the BoS, anyone that was against Barnaky or seen to aid mutations are also sent to the camps, entire settlement get put to the flame. Soon the Mutant Liberation army forms. BoS caravans and outpost get hit, work camps are liberated, the BoS see a dramatic fall in people willing to join the BoS, and they start having desertions.

Human numbers are replaced more and more by calculator robots and more purges follow fearing an inside job. The BoS stop trying to contact the West in order to get their own house in order.

Biggest blow happens when rouge BoS members set off several bombs within Vault Zero in a failed coup d'état. Many of the calculators systems are damaged beyond repair. Barnaky lives but finds has less control over the robotic forces. He can't control them all at once and the ability to make more robots is severely hampered.

Mutant Liberation Army makes allies with what’s left of the Reaver movement and are supplied with EMP weapons. The remaining slaver/raider groups once again become strong and prey on BoS settlements and outposts.

Decades of bloody Guerrilla warfare against the MLA and the predation of other factions (slavers, raiders) have driven the MWBoS back to their remaining strongholds such as Vault Zero and Cities in between Colorado and Chicago.

Lyons and his BoS are sent out to make contact but don't really know where they are, they know the MWBoS went East, they took a path that takes them away from the MWBoS strongholds at Vault Zero and the others in the Midwest. As Lyons gets closer to DC he hears rumors of people that have similar tech and a symbol are in the area. Lyon spends a long time hunting down those rumors. MWBoS fearing that Lyons is just the tip of a larger army coming up from the south west, do what they can to not be found by them.

Lyons is persistent and soon the MWBoS send out a group of their own elders to make contact. They tell Lyons that MWBoS are just a few hundred men and women close to Chicago. Lyons having made contact goes on to the more important mission of heading to DC.

Like the Barnaky ending states it’s a war the Mutant Liberation Army is distended to lose. MWBoS have seen bitter defeat after bitter defeat for generations and are now a shadow of their glory days but time is on their side. Mutations can't reproduce and the ones that don't fall to the BoS will be taken care of by father time. Humans and fellow BoS that sided with the MLA grow tired of fighting, seeing as how they have crippled the MWBoS and liberated much of their territory. Most just want to settle and farm, the threat is all but gone (so they think). After generations of war the younger generations don't take up the fight.

Maybe the MWBoS will find an ally in Augustus Autumn and his advanced tech can help the MWBoS take back what they lost."

"The hard times" I see for the Midwestern Brotherhood is a decades long war with the Mutant Liberation Army combined with a very paranoid General Barnaky that caused people to turn away from the BoS and ever rebel against the BoS. Along with Slavers, Raiders and Reavers rebuilding their power and causing problems. The Calculator gets damaged to the Robot Army can't be controlled all at once and new Robots take longer to be built. The Brotherhood is forced back to strongholds across the Midwestern United States.

Midwestern BoS can't produce their own PA so not every member gets one. Only the elite get the best weapons and armour. That is fact.

Enclave would have been worse off the Midwestern BoS. Midwestern BoS surround them and make a deal. Help us or die where you stand. Enclave takes the deal and move on to DC. Only a couple dozen scientists are left behind, which they were going to do any way. The Midwestern BoS give the Enclave supplies and a base in exchange for more advanced tech/weapons. Midwestern BoS make sure they are well guarded.
When Remnants come back from DC they learn more about the Midwestern BoS under Barnaky and their goals. Some see this as a chance to regain some power. A deal is made for Enclave leaders to become elders and the Enclave to remain independent body with in the Brotherhood ranks. Like I.T guys for the Brotherhood.
They help out the scribes and so on developed weapons to fight the enemies of the BoS. The Mutant Liberation army being the most pressing, Enclave leaders now elders start doing what Enclave does best. Become a shadow government with the MWBoS and someday take total control.

Who knows, maybe the Enclave make a deal with Barnaky to help make humanity pure blood again like the Enclave. Maybe that was Augustus' idea all along and why he went against Eden. Maybe he wanted to find a way to make waste landers pure through genetic engineering or breeding. Now he has a willing leader, Barnaky. That is willing to let the Enclave experiment to make humanity pure again, think about it people.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:13 pm

Doesn't matter how positive you are or how great of an ambition you have to make the world a better place if you have Talon Company, Raiders, Super Mutants, Enclaver Remnants and possibly Outcasts breathing down your neck.
As for Tactics, again, we know nothing of how they've progressed or declined.
We know a small note from Fallout 3 and that Centurions are decorated with PA pieces.

So I wouldn't say either of them are good hopes of survival of the BOS. (Let alone that Lyons Brotherhood is any form of BOS anymore either.)

Not to sure but in the slides of Fallout 3 didn't it say that the BoS slaughtered the rest of the supermutants. Without them I think their problems progressively get smaller. Sure they struggle against raiders, but not nearly to the extent against the super mutants, and if they killed all of them they have time to fix up other things.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:02 pm

Not to sure but in the slides of Fallout 3 didn't it say that the BoS slaughtered the rest of the supermutants. Without them I think their problems progressively get smaller. Sure they struggle against raiders, but not nearly to the extent against the super mutants, and if they killed all of them they have time to fix up other things.

Doesn't really matter because Bethesda decided to remove the endings. Thanks to broken steel the Enclave's plan does not turn all of DC into a graveyard, and project purity doesn't instantly clean all the water in the tidal basin and the Potomac River. The thing we know for sure is, that no matter what, the Enclave get destroyed. So I guess that makes their job somewhat easier.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:04 am

Doesn't really matter because Bethesda decided to remove the endings. Thanks to broken steel the Enclave's plan does not turn all of DC into a graveyard, and project purity doesn't instantly clean all the water in the tidal basin and the Potomac River. The thing we know for sure is, that no matter what, the Enclave get destroyed. So I guess that makes their job somewhat easier.

So wait, if BS is canon then the original FO3 ending sliders are now non-canon?
Or is it just the sliders that contradict BS?
Like, the super mutant extermination takes place after the events of BS.

[edit]

I skimmed through this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_endings
And I found nothing on killin all the super mutants.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:19 pm

More dynamics in what a town and it's area has with what it has in stock.
Let's say we have a village which has a large number of Brahmin, but no fresh water source and no gunsmith. Brahmin based products (meat, milk and leather armor) would be stocked regularly and in larger quantities than clean water and weapons.
Overall more in-game reactions to your actions. If you clear out a raider camp or a town let's find scavengers or squatters there at some point later. If you blow up a bridge that is part of the caravan route of two towns let's see the things that they supply each other arrive/restock less frequent.

A change to cooking food.
Now the recipes seem to be all over the place. Cooking one type of meat shouldn't require a whole lot more skill than another type.
Instead divide things into simple recipes (cook meat, bake egg) which require low skills and more complex and more rewarding (heal more, still more hunger, stat boosts) recipes as you go higher (make an omelet with an egg and all manner of ingredients, turned that cooked gecko into gecko kebab).

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:29 am

So wait, if BS is canon then the original FO3 ending sliders are now non-canon?
Or is it just the sliders that contradict BS?

I would say it all goes out the window with Broken Steel. That's what happens when people don't care about lore/canon building and just want more crap to blow up. Not that there was much lore given to us by the "endings" of Fallout 3, but at least it was something.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:51 pm

do you guys think that there should be another game set in the northwest, maybe in ronto or the commonwealth?

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:34 pm

do you guys think that there should be another game set in the northwest, maybe in ronto or the commonwealth?

That's the Northeast, and I hope it is set in Philly.