[jennie xhx]

If that's your argument than I respect it, but if that's what you really think cool. I'm down with that, not like it's going to stop people from buying into Bethesda's franchise.

Was being sarcastic.

But anyways, that's it for me. I'm not going to agree about having aliens and you're not going to let go, so no use going on with this.

[Maria Leon]

Was being sarcastic.

But anyways, that's it for me. I'm not going to agree about having aliens and you're not going to let go, so no use going on with this.

I would let go if, and only if, somebody gave me some nice hard evidence as to wear it doesn't make since! Nothing in Fallout makes since, really. There's some things that do, some that don't.

Everybody and their mom says "OH BUT ALIENS ARENT CANON CUZ I SAIS SO."

Yes, and that's your opinion, but you know deep down people have a soft spot for them.

And yes, it's my opinion (strong opinion) that Aliens make sense, and thus, fit into the world of Fallout.

[NIloufar Emporio]

Aliens have already been showed in Fallout by Bethesda, and people generally loved it. The canon and everything clearly works (whether Easter Egg or not) Some people see Mothership Zeta as a huge Easter Egg, but it's actually canon.

Why can't it be canon?

Why does the Enclave not liking the BoS have to be canon?

Why should there be freakish monsters in Fallout? It may be 'canon' to some people but it's not very logical, I believe Aliens are more logical then monsters coming out of a Nuclear explosion. Gnrfan, you're crazy! Radiation causes mutation! But what Mutation lives on after turning freakish?

This game is full of holes and open areas, so why cant Fallout 3, and more-so Aliens, be Canon?

So including aliens as the main fix for the game that only had them as easter eggs or a side reel in maybe 1 or 2 games is a good move?

Instead of finding a game that actually focuses on them as a main plot point?

-Also Destroy All Humans was alot of fun.

Seriously what kind of alien game are you looking for?

[Adam Baumgartner]

I like Fallout, I don't care for other Alien games. I don't want Aliens to have a MAJOR spot in Fallout, I just want them to hold their rightful spot.

Yes, I like seeing them more than Easter Eggs. Real life doesn't have Easter Eggs, why can't Fallout have some nice Aliens?

[CxvIII]

I would let go if, and only if, somebody gave me some nice hard evidence as to wear it doesn't make since! Nothing in Fallout makes since, really. There's some things that do, some that don't.

Everybody and their mom says "OH BUT ALIENS ARENT CANON CUZ I SAIS SO."

Yes, and that's your opinion, but you know deep down people have a soft spot for them.

And yes, it's my opinion (strong opinion) that Aliens make sense, and thus, fit into the world of Fallout.

Keep it up then. Canon is irrelevant here (there's nothing stating that past events are, by rule, caused by aliens -- ergo, nothing related to aliens has to have happened for the world and lore to reach the state it is in, ergo aliens are not canon), but it's about fitting in the setting and themes. Fallout is not about War of the Worlds or Futurama, and needs not be so in the future either.

[Darren Chandler]

OK, gnrfan you have made your point about aliens being in Fallout, others disagree. Drop it now please and do not disrupt the thread any more.

[Dorian Cozens]

The commies tattooed them when they were alive and then turned them into zombies

VAMPIRES NOT ZOMBIES, CAN'T YOU SEE THE FANGS???

[Chantelle Walker]

VAMPIRES NOT ZOMBIES, CAN'T YOU SEE THE FANGS???

Well I got the image from "The Zombie Survival Guide: Recorded Attacks" by Max Brooks. So they are Zombies

Illustrated by Ibraim Roberson

[Jake Easom]

Well I got the image from "The Zombie Survival Guide: Recorded Attacks" by Max Brooks. So they are Zombies

Illustrated by Ibraim Roberson

*squint's eyes* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08!

[Yvonne Gruening]

On a serious note: I did like Fallout 3's refrences to the great movie "Them." It would be interesting to have more refrences to great movies of the 1940s and 1950s.

[Honey Suckle]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043456/

[phil walsh]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043456/

That did come to mind. It would make a great easter egg. Go into an old movie theater or movie museum and have a robot close to that in the rubble or against a wall. Might have to change it like Bethesda did with Them for legal reasons.

[DeeD]

That did come to mind. It would make a great easter egg. Go into an old movie theater or movie museum and have a robot close to that in the rubble or against a wall. Might have to change it like Bethesda did with Them for legal reasons.

The robot has to be watching the movie and then when it notices you it attacks. A special weapon or weapon schematic would be nice to find on it's body.

On a side not I still push my hidden alien survivor town.

[john page]

You have the right idea I think but if we had such a system, wouldn't that detract from the skill system as a whole?

1. I mean, if you include all these new skills aren't you going to have to add more levels or allow people to distribute more skill points themselves after a level up?
2. And in regards to how you said "if we chose Guns, Steal, Sneak and Speech we'd have to shell out a lot of cash to repair and craft". Dont we already do that now?
3. Persay, if I want a 'Deathclaw Gauntlet' I would need the medical brace, hand, duct tape, and a moderately high repair skill while, like you say, I'd be more "self reliant" however how would I do so? Do you mean that I can craft outside of benches only? If so, that would be a massive waste of skill points, just to be able to craft without a bench.
4. Perhaps being able to repair your guns and weapons yourself, I feel, would be a far greater addition to your "more self reliant" motive.
And these are merely opinions, reject them if you wish, just try to see what Im trying to say.

1. No. Action and consequence, people have to make a choice in what skills they want to use and which they don't want to use, if we take lvl 50 as it currently is with FNV's DLC's then it'll be fine, we'll get like 7 or 8 skills to 100, that's more than enough IMO.
2. Do we? I don't. Repairing items currently is really easy and I never really have to spend money on using repair NPC's. Whole system needs to be redesigned though, new values to items and weapons and repair costs and stuff like that to make everything 'tick' right.
3. What, no, with self-reliant I mean: You don't need NPC's.... Completely. With a high explosives and high Mechanics you don't "need" to buy ammo, you can just craft your own and break down the ammo you don't need for materials. In that regard, you are "self-reliant", you don't need to waste any money on ammo and can save that money for other things.
4. Well that too, the higher the Mechanics the more CND goes up from using spare parts from broken down weapons. Hell, with 30 in Mechanics you might only be able to repair up to 60. (Or the CND you gain (let's say 10 for 'Spare Parts') could halv if you don't meet the required Mechanics after the certain threshold.))
(((Example: 9mm pistol, let's say it's CND is at 0, and can be repaired normally to 30 with 10 in Mechanics. If you use Spare Parts then you get 10+ CND for each spare part, so, that is 3. Now though, you are at 30 and want to go to 50 in CND, but since your Mechanics is at 10 and you don't meet the requirement for the next set, which is 25 Mechanics for 60 CND with a 9mm Pistol, then the spare parts' effect on the CND is halved, so from 30 to 50 you need 4 spare parts. For each Mechanics requirement threshold you don't meet the effects of the parts you're using will be halved. So at 90 in CND each spare part will give 1+, at that point it might be better to just go to the repair NPC's. This requires a lot of work though, each weapon tier (not each weapon on it's own) has it's own Mechanics/Armorer/Electronics requirement threshold's, and each repairable part in the game (Scrap electronics, fission batteries, scrap metal, spare parts, broken stock, et cetera) needs to have their own CND value that they improve. )))

I know it sounds messy right now, I'll make it more clear in the morning of how I thought it could work, but right now it's too late and I'd rather not spend the time I have left before bed, writing a bunch of numbers.
I'll detail it more tomorrow.

Electronics gives you the ability to make stuff? Could probably use a better name, maybe crafting or engineering.

No, Electronics it is, an Engineering is something different.

[brandon frier]

How about Crafting. Because electronics is for electrical stuff. Making guns and armor from scratch doesn't really need electronics.

[Juan Suarez]

How about Crafting. Because electronics is for electrical stuff. Making guns and armor from scratch doesn't really need electronics.

What?
No, you don't make any... Listen, you can make Tesla Mods for armors with Electronics, you can craft, repair and modify energy weapons. But you can't use it on any other form of armor or weapon.
And no to Crafting as a skill.

Why?
Explosives has crafting.
Medicine has crafting.
Survival is crafting.
Science has crafting.
Chemistry would have crafting.
Repair has crafting.
You can't just cast everything into one giant dump skill. It's bad RPG design.


There is no skill that can fully cover all of them.
Gunsmith? That only applies to Guns then, not armors or Energy Weapons.
Repair as it is could work for ONLY repairing stuff, but crafting things with it makes the skill like Science, a dump skill. Not to mention it doesn't make any sense.
I'm saying, with my system, that if we are to be able to craft armors and weapons in the game, just like Smithing is able to do in Skyrim, then we need more skills.
Everything cannot be covered by one skill and remain coherent.
In Skyrim it was easy, Blacksmithing, it covers all areas of expertise, but the perk system allows you to specialize in a certain type of material that you process.
But with Fallout it isn't that easy. We can't have one single skill and we can't let Science become even more bloated than it already is or make Repair a dump skill just like Science.
Nothing good will come out of it but a simplified system and two extremely overpowered skills.

[Miragel Ginza]

When you described it you had the three skills

Electronics
Whatever
and armorer

Then you had numbers giving some details

1. You can make items from scraps
2. Whatever
3. And whatever

So I matched electronics and making stuff from scratch.

Then the result was confusion.

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

When you described it you had the three skills

Electronics
Whatever
and armorer

Then you had numbers giving some details

1. You can make items from scraps
2. Whatever
3. And whatever

So I matched electronics and making stuff from scratch.

Then the result was confusion.

Ah, you misread:

Electronics
Mechanics
Armorer

Each skill serves three purposes:
1. crafting items from scratch, which can be sold for a lot more than the parts on their individual value.
2. Repairing items more successfully.
3. And modifying their statistics, which makes the armors better than the vanilla counterpart.

[john page]

Things that would be cool in Fallout 4

1: More Weapon Modifications like bayonets and Plasma and Laser bayonets and maybe being able to change the physical appearance of the weapon similar to Army of Two how, you can camo the gun and put shields on it changing the barrel ETC.

2: Power Armor Vision : A vision that lets you look through the Power Armors goggles with a Hud.

3: Chinese Remnants and the Chinese assualt rifle and pistol and maybe Chinese Power Armor and Chinese Laser and Plasma weapons.

4: A more tactical way to control followers maybe with a pip-boy or a radio.

5: United States Army ghouls from the great war that can teach the player moves and maybe a US Army ghoul follower.

6: Energy weapons that have a stun setting like Star Wars.

7: Power Armor Modifications.

8: Power Armor that can emit a Plasma or Laser shield.

9: Being able to go prone.

10: Making your own Armor out of junk like Super Mututants do.

11: Not getting enough sleep can make the player pass out.

12: The player can get knocked out from Melee combat.

13: A Power Armor with a jet pack.

14: Re-making Fallout 2 and making the player be born into the Enclave, the Enclave faction made the Fallout series in my opinion and should not be taken out of the game so re-doing Fallout 2 could bring them back. If the player is born into the Enclave you can also base a juicy story around it like the player grows up as an Enclave soldier and he has to save his father who is an Enclave Officer who got captured by the Brother Hood Of Steel or Chinese Remnants or Aliens.And you can also make the Enclave more advanced like giving them time travel technology so the player and his Enclave squad can recover lost pre-war technology or fight in Operation Anchorage. Being the bad guys with cool technology is just as fun as being a good guy with cave man technology. And maybe growing up with Arcade to and SGT Dornan is your Uncle.

15: A Power Armor with a built in weapon system that has its own artificial intelligence and reloads itself and can fire Laser or Plasma.

16: A Dark depressing setting like Fallout 3 Fallout New Vegas had a horrible setting.

17: Health mod : Instead of gaining strength by just adding points you have make your character exercise and do push ups and the more fights you get into the more endurance you gain.

18: Aliens, Alien Power armor, and Alien energy weapons.

19: Being able to purify toxic water with Power Armor.

20: If you have a robot follower you can link it up to your pip-boy and control them like a UAV or tell them to buy things for you or tell them to go to a land mark.

21: Robot followers need there fission batteries changed every month.

22: The pip-boy map is in depth and tells you where the buildings are where the water is where bridges are and has colors and a legend.

23: Being able to lean around corners climb over obstacles the jump function is okay for certain things not for everything.

24: Working the bugs out of the game before it is released working out most of the bugs saves time and makes the customer happy I rather wait 5 years for a game with no bugs then to be annoyed with all the crap.

25: Super Mutant and ghoul faction.

26: Enclave and Brother Hood Alliance would be cool they are the most liked factions in the game and maybe they can fight the NCR together or an Alien invasion or Super Mutants or maybe the Chinese Remnants come over from China and invade California if the game is based in California.

27: Being able to pick a voice for your character having your character silent while the NPC''S could talk was stupid.

I agree woth 100% of what u said, bravo, couldnt of said it better muself

[~Sylvia~]

WonderKombat
As to Electronics, I wikipedia'd both Electronics and Engineering and they are really different, google them you too and read the first paragraph.
(I don't have time to read the rest at the moment)

[Meghan Terry]

If they set this next one in Detroit i have the perfect idea for a faction. A group of raider/bandits that are based in the chrysler factory using car parts as armor and weapondry. Their names would be catchy like "Grearheads" or somewhere along thise lines.

[Jade Payton]

WonderKombat
As to Electronics, I wikipedia'd both Electronics and Engineering and they are really different, google them you too and read the first paragraph.
(I don't have time to read the rest at the moment)

WonderKombat...

Also I said call it engineering when I thought it was solely about making items from scratch. So no need for name change anymore.

[Strawberry]

WonderKombat...

Also I said call it engineering when I thought it was solely about making items from scratch. So no need for name change anymore.

Ah, si.
Though I think if we explore engineering on it's own we might be able to find a nice skill.
But let's save that for tomorrow.

And sorry 'bout the name, your name is in all caps so I just glance at it every time. WonderKombat sounds better though.

[Laura-Jayne Lee]

But what would it be called?
Crafting a metal armor and crafting an anti-material rifle and crafting a plasma repeater are very very different.
Calling it "Crafting" would also interfer with Medicine, Science/Chemistry, Survival and Explosives skills as they have craftable items as well.

Rename Repair into Mechanics, making it about figuring out how mechanics work, how to fix them and how to create new ones from scratch.

Make Armorer it's own skill so we can craft, maintain and modify armors. (Crafting armors cost less and they are better, you could also modify armors by adding additional materials to them, like adding Fire Gecko Skin to a Combat Armor to give it +15% fire resistance. (With each armor having 4 slots of modification possible. (You can still repair any and all armors with 7 in Armorer, it just means that you will get a really low bonus to it's CND, making NPC Armorers a more viable choice for non Armorer player characters, but also more costly)))

And have Electronics be the skill for repairing, maintaining and mofifying Energy Weapons of all kinds. (Electronics can also be used for other things, like recharging drained cells, crafting plasma and pulse grenades and tapping out energy sources for Small Energy Cells (That can later be converted to Microfusion or Electron Charge Package))

I think that would be the best set-up if we are to be able to craft weapons and armors.

You aren't forced to take any of these, you can buy a Metal Armor from an NPC, but it will cost more.
You can upgrade said Metal Armor at an NPC, but it will cost more.
You can repair said Upgraded Metal Armor at an NPC, but it will cost more.
Same with the other things.

Each skill serves three purposes:
1. crafting items from scratch, which can be sold for a lot more than the parts on their individual value.
2. Repairing items more successfully.
3. And modifying their statistics, which makes the armors better than the vanilla counterpart.

All three services that these skills provide can be bought from NPC's, so it doesn't exclude anyone, but these services cost a lot, especially for the really good stuff. (Ever tried to repair an elite weapon in New Vegas by an NPC? It costs a fortune, up to 6.000 caps and sometimes even more.)

"But where does crafting bullets fit in then?"
I think Explosives should do fine.
Again, you can buy the craftable ammo from NPC's, so not picking Explosives doesn't mean you can't get Incendiary Anti-Material Rounds, it will just cost you a lot more.

So if you pick Guns and don't pick Explosives, Armorer or Mechanics, then don't fret, you can still get great stuff, you just need to pay more for it.
Maybe Barter would be a good idea for that character. (Could make Barter more useful actually if we're more inclined to start using NPC services.)

Electronics and Mechanics have more uses than Armorer though, both theses skills work their way into other areas of the game as well, like for example: Using Electronics to fix Caesar's Auto-Doc, or using Mechanics to sabotage that huge gun at the presidential speech at Hoover Dam.
Armorer has less uses in that regard, but it's still a very useful skill, hell, a crafted Deatchlaw Skin Reinforced Combat Armor MK III is going to protect you so well you could almost take on Arizona on your own.

Not saying my system is perfect. (Though I think it's pretty damn good)
But "if" we are going to be able to craft armors and weapons from scratch then I don't see how "Repair" fits into it, and an overall Crafting skill just simplifies everything too much, making NPC's' services even more obsolete than they already are.

Just my 2 cents.

But I'd rather not be able to craft armors or weapons if it's gonna be tossed into "Repair" or "Science" or "Crafting".
New skills or nothing, that's what I suggest.

Not to bad of an idea. But I would rather just have science and repair fit into a whole new engineering skill at that point. Or perhaps electronics and science, either way it could probably be done. Now crafting bullets into explosives? I'm not sure on my position about that honestly. I could really only think that explosive tracer rounds could fit in responsively.

Spoiler

You aren't forced to take any of these, you can buy a Metal Armor from an NPC, but it will cost more.
You can upgrade said Metal Armor at an NPC, but it will cost more.
You can repair said Upgraded Metal Armor at an NPC, but it will cost more.

Agreed completely.

You have the right idea I think but if we had such a system, wouldn't that detract from the skill system as a whole? I mean, if you include all these new skills aren't you going to have to add more levels or allow people to distribute more skill points themselves after a level up?
And in regards to how you said "if we chose Guns, Steal, Sneak and Speech we'd have to shell out a lot of cash to repair and craft". Dont we already do that now? Persay, if I want a 'Deathclaw Gauntlet' I would need the medical brace, hand, duct tape, and a moderately high repair skill while, like you say, I'd be more "self reliant" however how would I do so? Do you mean that I can craft outside of benches only? If so, that would be a massive waste of skill points, just to be able to craft without a bench.
Perhaps being able to repair your guns and weapons yourself, I feel, would be a far greater addition to your "more self reliant" motive.
And these are merely opinions, reject them if you wish, just try to see what Im trying to say.

I thought of the same thing. You just got to it before me. Now, I'm not about to do the math for it but with 3 new skill sets I would only imagine about another 5 levels to advance to.

[MatthewJontully]

WonderKombat...

Also I said call it engineering when I thought it was solely about making items from scratch. So no need for name change anymore.

Well maybe we can put a use into the useless CNC machine models put into the game then...