Fallout 4 Speculations, Suggestions and Ideas : Fallout Series Discussion

» Tue May 17, 2011 3:00 am

If it takes place around the commonwealth.. thats really the only scenario i could see working because of the tech savvy context of the commonwealth.
I dont think they should be ourwritght excluded, just that there should be some restraint in implementing them-they work better as an emerging electronics project than as a commonplace race, IMO.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:38 pm

lol zoos u could have mutant elephants,penguins,tigers,garila,lions,polar bears,monkeys,

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:22 am

That was only in Fallout, Fallout 2 didn't have lootable armor anymore.

And I agree with Shadowhuntt60. With DT/DR addition (infact, I'd try to even figure out how to implement AC to the game so that it'd be worthwhile and sensible in RT gameplay --which the next Fallout will be--), and that armor should be nonlootable to make it more valuable and rewrding element in the game.

How bout no?

I would LOVE a mixture of DT and DR and other resistence's to make armor more unique and have many varants! But I will smite you if there will be nonlootable armor which will probably not be the case.

Thank goodness I don't like smiting people.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:34 am

How bout no?

I would LOVE a mixture of DT and DR and other resistence's to make armor more unique and have many varants! But I will smite you if there will be nonlootable armor which will probably not be the case.

Thank goodness I don't like smiting people.

Ok.
Why is the idea of nonlootable armor a bad one, though?

(Given the gameplay benefits it could potentially offer if handled with care - with a possible cost of little bit of realism)

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:19 pm

I say make every armor lootable, but always in very bad condition and harder to repair, especially to full health. Basically, you can repair say metal armor to 100% if you've just have enough of other metal armors for spare parts, even with a low repair. I'd say, if you have 20% in repair, maybe you can only heal the armor up to 20% effectively, after 20% the chance will be much worse (but it wouldn't stop you from trying, like lockpicking or hacking terminals where you can't do a Hard lock if you have only 1% under the required skill.) Maybe you get to heal another 10%, maybe only 2%, maybe nothing at all and you've pretty much wasted the spare parts, or even worse, thanks to your lacking skill, you break the armor a little instead of repairing it! That would be a critical skill check failure. Just like how timed bombs or dynamite would explode prematurely with a too low explosives skill, or you destroy a lock with a too low lockpicking skill.

If there'd be unlootable armor, I'd say it would be the power armors. But I doubt they'd make them unlootable, so I'd say they would be heavy, and broken and most merchants wouldn't want to buy it from you since it would be junk to them and/or they wouldn't want the brotherhood to hear about him having the armor of one of their fallen brothers, he might get in trouble. Also, the Power Armor training probably stays too, so that's another hindrance. If it does not stays, well, it's still just a heavy piece of junk you can't use or sell anyways, unless you have 100% repair skill (and some science skill too, maybe) and another power armor perhaps? I dunno, it's a hard topic to balance out, but still not make too hard and have people rage over it.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:20 pm

Ok.
Why is the idea of nonlootable armor a bad one, though?

(Given the gameplay benefits it could potentially offer if handled with care - with a possible cost of little bit of realism)

It depends, IMO it could be rarer, but nonlootable would cause problems with the current system where armor degrades, combined with the fact that you have to fix it with another suit. That's an issue that has to be solved. In Oblivion it actually could work because there's all these repair hammers just waiting to be used. I can't remember armor degrading in the originals either, but I may have forgotten. I would solve it by having repair kits aplenty and make them last longer (both armor and the repair kits) but I'd rather repair armor with reusable kits anyway, makes more sense to me.

» Tue May 17, 2011 6:02 am

It depends, IMO it could be rarer, but nonlootable would cause problems with the current system where armor degrades, combined with the fact that you have to fix it with another suit. That's an issue that has to be solved. In Oblivion it actually could work because there's all these repair hammers just waiting to be used. I can't remember armor degrading in the originals either, but I may have forgotten. I would solve it by having repair kits aplenty and make them last longer (both armor and the repair kits) but I'd rather repair armor with reusable kits anyway, makes more sense to me.

Armor didn't degrade in the other Fallouts. People didn't drop armors (or just sometimes, very rarely), so you had to find or buy them, and there really weren't a big vareity of armors anyways, and finding the good armors, the power armors, took time anyways (unless you exploited a little)

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:48 am

I dunno. I wouldn't allow armorlooting from corpses for anything except for some low and mid tier armors to keep the player in some gear, and be careful with that too. I also don't think the repairing and condition would cause a problem, it'd just add a responsibility to the player - if there actually were a "shortage" of armors.

Anyways, have less lootable armors (as said, only some low and mid tier ones), have them in poor condition (with a lucky strike, one could find one in better condition), make them cost a lot more (by enhancing the effect of the barterskill, and general amount of lot, and with "picky" traders) and be rarer even on vendors (based on tier), have less means of repairing the armors (much less armorloot, expensive repairers). I'd also introduce the deterioration of maximum condition, where the more the armor is repaired the lower it can be repaired - with 100% cnd armors only obtainable from vendors at really high prices. If armors are rare, it encourages the player to invest in the one he has and makes obtaining a betterone a much more rewarding experience. This way even the now too lenient repair system can thrive and even the lousiest of armors can feel valuable to the player.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:41 pm

Armor didn't degrade in the other Fallouts. People didn't drop armors (or just sometimes, very rarely), so you had to find or buy them, and there really weren't a big vareity of armors anyways, and finding the good armors, the power armors, took time anyways (unless you exploited a little)

That's what I thought, and while I think degrading armor is fun, having nonlootable armor would break the current repair system. Like I said, (lootable) repair kits aplenty could help with that problem. That way, your very expensive Power Armor doesn't have to rely on lootable armor to get repaired, but that may ruin the jury rigging perk. Your plan of having very rare armor loot, and in very bad condition may work even better. Even at 0% you can still use it to repair other armor.

Anyway, the problem is if you go the nonlootable armor way, what do you use to repair your armor?

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:06 pm

Anyway, the problem is if you go the nonlootable armor way, what do you use to repair your armor?

Repair kits, pay for competent vendors to repair, the repairskill itself (skillchancebased, and with limited uses /24h).

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:26 pm

But what about my idea? If you have say 20% in Repair, you can effectively repair your armor up to 20%, and the low skill won't stop you from trying beyond that like with hacking and lockpicking, but you would perform your task poorly. Repairing it beyond 20% would be more of a gamble. With a lucky skill/dice roll in Repair, you could repair the armor a good enough percentage compared to your skill, but mostly you would maybe just repair it a few percent or not at all or even a negative percentage. The higher tier armor, the harder it would be, so patching normal clothing would be easier, why welding a metal armor back together a bit harder without enough experience in that skill.

Then the ability to repair anything while out in the wasteland could be removed. Perhaps you'd need a repair bench to repair armor, except clothing which are just patch jobs. With a high enough Repair skill you'd get to choose a perk that allows you to do armor repairs out in the field.

The condition meter for armor would also be the same as for weapons (if it is, please correct me because I can't remember) where there is a little notch or whatever, while the condition is above it, you maintain your weapon, when the condition is below it, you repair the weapon. Same thing would go for armor, where you can always maintain your armor out in the field, but not repair it if it's broken. Still, you'd need a good enough repair to do good maintaining.

Armor repair kits would also repair your armor in the field, they would never heal zero or a negative percentage. They come with a basic manual for beginners

Something like that? Note that the math (chances and dice rolls) probably needs some working on, I cba to calculate anything.

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:26 am

Those are some interesting solutions. I think we can all agree that the current system has far too much armor that hasn't degraded enough as loot. I'd be happy so long as armor loot doesn't show up on every single corpse (and never on ash/goo piles) and when it does, it's in very bad shape.

» Tue May 17, 2011 1:07 am

But what about my idea? If you have say 20% in Repair, you can effectively repair your armor up to 20%, and the low skill won't stop you from trying beyond that like with hacking and lockpicking, but you would perform your task poorly.

....

Something like that? Note that the math (chances and dice rolls) probably needs some working on, I cba to calculate anything.

I think it's a good idea for a repairsystem. I've suggested something similiar earlier too (with skillchances - skill vs condition and that stuff). And I'd very much prefer a system like that over the existing one. And I'd also add it to hacking and lockpicking - skill vs lock/terminal, and time based on the lock level (not a timelimit, but time the attempt takes), so no minigame but just an animation of the character doing it. Maybe a simple repairing animation for armors and weapons too, if for nothing else, just to illustrate that the character actually does something, or something.

The "no repair in the field" is kinda 50/50 with me. I'd probably change that to just lesser amount of possibilities (less duplicates/kits and limited skilluse), but I'm fine with it in general.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:56 pm

I think it's a good idea for a repairsystem. I've suggested something similiar earlier too (with skillchances - skill vs condition and that stuff). And I'd very much prefer a system like that over the existing one. And I'd also add it to hacking and lockpicking - skill vs lock/terminal, and time based on the lock level (not a timelimit, but time the attempt takes), so no minigame but just an animation of the character doing it. Maybe a simple repairing animation for armors and weapons too, if for nothing else, just to illustrate that the character actually does something, or something.

Yeah, that's exactly what I am thinking aswell.

The "no repair in the field" is kinda 50/50 with me. I'd probably change that to just lesser amount of possibilities (less duplicates/kits and limited skilluse), but I'm fine with it in general.

It was just another thought I had to balance out looting armors, and be able to repair everything on the spot if you pick up alot of the similar kind. Although it is convenient that when you for example kill everyone at the Silver Rush, and loot all of their combat armor, to just "merge them" with each other and get one or two well-repaired combat armors, since you wouldn't be able to bring all of that phat loot with you to a workbench or to a trader (or you could, in walking pace).
But I was thinking that it shouldn't completly be restricted to a workbench, that's why I said there could be a "notch" in the degrade bar like with weapons, and while the bar is over the notch, you maintain the armor, which you can do out on the field, and when it's below the notch, something is broken that needs more work and the right tools. So, you'd need the Repair skill to be able to maintain you armor in the field, and you could have armor repair/maintenance kits which you can use in the field. But I understand if this is a too tedious system.

Maybe you could to a quick fix with the help of duct tape and super glue and things like that, it would be a bit like the temporary health in Left 4 Dead when you take pain pills. The condition bar would fill up with a slighty transparent bar, and that piece of the bar would degrade twice as fast, but it's just a quick fix until you get spare parts or find a workbench, you can only do this a limited amount of times on your gear.

Maybe workbenches should work this way instead, that you get a good bonus to your Repair skill if repairing your gear on a workbench. Like the lockpicking set in Fallout 1/2 game a bonus to Lockpicking.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:54 am

It was just another thought I had to balance out looting armors, and be able to repair everything on the spot if you pick up alot of the similar kind. Although it is convenient that when you for example kill everyone at the Silver Rush, and loot all of their combat armor, to just "merge them" with each other and get one or two well-repaired combat armors, since you wouldn't be able to bring all of that phat loot with you to a workbench or to a trader (or you could, in walking pace).
But I was thinking that it shouldn't completly be restricted to a workbench, that's why I said there could be a "notch" in the degrade bar like with weapons, and while the bar is over the notch, you maintain the armor, which you can do out on the field, and when it's below the notch, something is broken that needs more work and the right tools. So, you'd need the Repair skill to be able to maintain you armor in the field, and you could have armor repair/maintenance kits which you can use in the field. But I understand if this is a too tedious system.

Maybe you could to a quick fix with the help of duct tape and super glue and things like that, it would be a bit like the temporary health in Left 4 Dead when you take pain pills. The condition bar would fill up with a slighty transparent bar, and that piece of the bar would degrade twice as fast, but it's just a quick fix until you get spare parts or find a workbench, you can only do this a limited amount of times on your gear.

Maybe workbenches should work this way instead, that you get a good bonus to your Repair skill if repairing your gear on a workbench. Like the lockpicking set in Fallout 1/2 game a bonus to Lockpicking.

Yeah, workbenches could be more like static "places of power" for repairing equipement. Maybe put them in places where you can only have limited use of them.
And perhaps, thinking about your left4dead example, the "maintenance" part of the cnd bar, could be separate from overall condition (in some cases), working as a slowdown for the condition (while there is stuff in the "maintenace" bar, it lowers at pace of "10", while condition lowers at pace of "2" - if that makes any sense, it getting late here). With smalltime supplies like duct tape and wonderglue, you could basically slow the deterioration down even somewhat significantly for a moment (though not wholly stop it), but not exactly fix anyting. (dunno how this'd work in the game though...)

Oh, and here's my idea for repair from way back (needs some work still):

Spoiler

Repairing happens either with repairkits, by gunsmiths in towns/caravans, or by a duplicate.

The kits would repair a fixed and relatively large amount of CND and have limited amount of succesful uses (and would offer a small bonus to the skill and crit. failure) each, but they would be expensive to buy, weight a somewhat hefty amount and would also be weakened and eventually broken by a certain amount of critical failures and general wear. Gunsmiths and repairmen would be very expensive but would get the job done no matter what. A duplicate would repair a small amount of CND (with no bonuses or hits to skill or crit. chance) so that you'd have to weigh the benefit of losing the weapons monetary value against the increase in CND (at least at early stages of the game).

Success in repairing is dependant on repairskill (a diceroll happens, dreadful I know). And the repairing takes a certain amount of time (few seconds) depending on the chance of success. Repairs cannot be done in combat.

One would now be able to repair guns and armor beyond his/her skill but the further above the skill they go the harder they would get to repair. The math is irrelevant (as long as it complements the premise), but here's a quick idea on how it could go:

After the guns/armors condition is above the skill, the amount going above is turned into percentages that is taken away from the skill. IE: skill = 30 and rifles condition = 80. Condition - skill = 50. 50% of skill (30) is 15. So trying to repair a weapon in condition of 80 with a repairskill of 30 would give a chance of success of 15%. This is not necesserely realistic, but it is assuming that the more shiny the condition gets, the more difficult (but not impossible) it would be to repair it further.

Guns and armor would also have a chance for a critical failure if an attempt to repair fails. Critical failure, instead of repairing the gun, has a reverse effect. The chance would be from 1% to 10% (depending on the weapon) if a trait or a perk doesn't raise/lower it.

The increased hardship of repairing would be compensated via much slower degredation rate (based on the weapon, of course), though the effects of CND (jamming during firing, reloading disorders, rate of fire, damage, buying/selling values) would also be much bigger and frequent.

There would also be a possibility to repair broken robots or computers or what ever there is to repair, by pointing the target opening the minimenu and selecting repair.

» Tue May 17, 2011 8:27 am

I believe that all armor should be lootable unless you turn your enemy to ashes or are searching their arm. But it should be broken or with a high enough luck or repair 10% at most.

Having non lootable armor makes things far less realistic then having lootable armor. If anybody has an arguement supporting realism to nonlootable armor please tell me.

With the idea of repair kits, there should be a few and be reusable but they (like everything else) should breakdwn over time, and you can replace the broken parts and/or get a new repair kit.

I also think that maybe a character shouldn't require power armor training if their intelligence/science skill is at about 90-100% (or 9-10 for the SPCEIAL)

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:57 am

This is just about weapon mods in peticular.
I think mods should be able to be taken off. I like the 3 limit idea. You can only add attachments/modds or detach them while at a reloading bench. Also weapon mods should have weight.
But it should barely be anything for certain types like weight decreasing mods. I also hope they add more mods for each weapon and not just one or two.

» Tue May 17, 2011 7:29 am

why would we wana be an android.
it doesn't sound fun and they only are in the common wealth. notable only a school
also there used as slaves
so why
I would like to be a ghoul
or a normal guy
or a guy with 3 arms

» Tue May 17, 2011 9:06 am

why would we wana be an android.
it doesn't sound fun and they only are in the common wealth. notable only a school
also there used as slaves
so why
I would like to be a ghoul
or a normal guy
or a guy with 3 arms

Better yet, a guy with three legs :thumbsup:

» Tue May 17, 2011 5:52 am

I would like Talon Company to be in Fallout 4, but not like they were in Fallout 3, I want it to be like the factions of New Vegas, with interaction and reputation. My logic is that, in a post-nuclear world like Fallout, an entity like the Talon Company would flourish into tremendous presence, even more so in areas where no large factions had developed to create order. I mean, the Talon Company is a perfect example of the perfect post-apocolyptic business model, a moderatly sized, well-equiped paramilitary force that would be deployed at the word and monetary expense of wealthy people or groups to vy for power. I dont understand how there are no other factions like them, the Talon Company should be in Fallout 4, it fits well in the setting and, frankly, the poor usage of a faction with such potential in Fallout 3 left a bad taste in my mouth, and, seeing how very well Obsidian did with factions in Fallout: New Vegas, really fleshing them out with backgrounds and interactions, I have no doubt that, if Bethesda takes some pointers from New Vegas's handling of factions, they could be a great faction in Fallout 4.

Talon Company

Talon Company is an equal opportunity employer. Talon Company is a mercenary group who has almost no restrictions on contracts, making it one of the most effective, and therefore wealthiest and best equipped, mercenary group known to exist in the wasteland, it's Regional HQ's are usually pre-war military installations, and the technical department of Talon Company is known for achieving great technological discoveries, such as the activation of Highwater Trousers. The basic Talon Mercenary is equipped with a suit of Talon Company Combat Armor, a 5.56mm R91 Urban Assault Rifle, and a Combat Knife or Police Baton, mercenaries are allowed to use their pay to purchase other weapons from any Talon Company Armory, weapons available range from the 5.56mm Type-87 Chinese Assault Rifle to the AER9 Laser Rifle to the feared Missile Launcher.

Mercenaries that prove their mettle in battle stand a chance to be promoted to Squad Leader rank and given Reinforced Talon Company Combat Armor Mk. 1 and will be in charge of a squad of 5 basic Talon Mercenaries. Another great charactaristic of the Talon Company is its orginazation, 5 Mercs and a Squad Leader make up a squad, 5 squads are led by a Talon Company Veteran Mercenary, whom wear Reinforced Talon Company Combat Armor Mk. 2 with a stylish duster, and all Veteran Mercenaries report to their respective Regional Commander. An added benefit of being a part of the Talon Company is that the Company will pay off any bounty (up to 10000 caps) for a mercenary that proves that they are loyal and can pass the recruitment tests. The training process is specially administered to weed out the weak and instill loyalty in the strong, bringing out the best in your character, defeating the worst of it. Many rumors float about, saying that the Company is "evil" or "full of maniacs", this is simply not the case, the Talon Company just doesn't pass moral judgment on those who would wish to emply Talon Mercenaries, and who needs to bog down good business with morals in the wasteland? Dispite the rumors, Talon Company does in no way practice sixual discrimination, mercenary applicants are accepted from all walks of life if they can prove themselves.

Thanks to the BoS-Enclave War, Talon Company has come into possession of a large amount of Enclave equipment and have captured some researchers, you can bet we shot those fascists! But other than the killing of those that wanted to kill all of your friends and family, the experience has also created a new rank in the Talon Company, an alternative to becoming a Squad Leader, the Talon Company Shocktrooper wears specially customized Talon Company Advanced Power Armor Mk. 2 and comes equipped with a Minigun, Gatling Laser, or Heavy Incinerator!

The Talon Company has from then gained strength, called for an end to hostilities with the BoS, and is focusing on fighting the Super Mutants, once again fighting those who would kill your friends, pets, neighbors, and all of your family.

Join Talon Company, it's exciting, worthwhile, enriching (both in experience and monetarily), and the best way to truly broaden your horizon!

Any person who wishes to join Talon Company only has to speak to your local Talon Company representative, from them you can negotiate on the purchase of mercenary contracts, or speak to them about joining Talon Company.

To add to this: the player should be able to join Talon Company, and they should be set up in areas that make sense, such as the NY Stock Exchange or pre-war military bases.

Nyuk.

» Tue May 17, 2011 11:51 am

As said before I simply want a zoo
the reapers
and a game in the south (preferably Georgia)

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:26 pm

If it takes place around the commonwealth.. thats really the only scenario i could see working because of the tech savvy context of the commonwealth.
I dont think they should be ourwritght excluded, just that there should be some restraint in implementing them-they work better as an emerging electronics project than as a commonplace race, IMO.

The way I justify the existence of Androids for myself is that they would have happened eventually had the war not taken place. All the robots we're seeing were made in 2077 or earlier. Surely a pocket of civilization that may have had as much as 200 years to further develop robotic technology would eventually produce realistic androids?

why would we wana be an android.
it doesn't sound fun and they only are in the common wealth. notable only a school

The Commonwealth isn't a school, it's the country that contains the school. And what you're thinking of, The Institute, isn't even a school anymore.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:22 pm

I'm all for the idea of FO4 taking place in the Commonwealth, or at least close enough to it that The Institute is a main faction in the game. Ever since learning of the "Synth Retention Bureau" in Fallout 3 I've been starving for more information on The Institute. Of course that little tidbit of info could have been meant as a small throwback to Blade Runner, but the fact that it was part of a whole quest makes me think otherwise.

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:41 am

Okay, edited this original one somewhat, how does it sound now?

Edited:

* Android

Much better. I like it. Although, I would make the vulnerable to fire.

I had a bit more simple idea in mind last night, when I gave it a bit more than a minute of thought:

Okay, trying to do a mix of both's idea:

Pro's
- Base HP (before endurance effect) x1.5
- Double effects from endurance
- +1 to Str, End and Per (changed my mind with the perception)
- +5 initial DT
- Does not require SLP/FOD/H2O
- +2 to detecting enemies on radar (10 real PER = 12 PER for the detecting enemies)
- Unique perks exclusive to Androids
- Immune to radiation and poison

Con's
- Base skillpoint gain halved (if the formula is 10+(intx0.5), it would be 5+(intx0.5) for androids)
- Perks one level later than others (if normal rate is 1:2, for android it'd be 1:3)
- -2 to max int and cha
- When lit on fire, it lasts twice aslong as with others, though fire does not do more damage than normally
- Does require ENRG and SYN
- Pulse or Tesla or Shock weapons inflict twice as much damage on Androids.
- Harder to heal oneself due to very expensive mechanics NPC's and expensive healing items.
- Harder to find healing supplies, those one does find (scrap metal/electronics) does very little to heal oneself
- Very reliant on Electronics and Mechanics which means Android players might have a slightly/heavily limited amount of skills.

Good, bad or needs more tweaking?

» Tue May 17, 2011 12:48 am

Okay, trying to do a mix of both's idea:
...

Good, bad or needs more tweaking?

Sounds swell, to me. I wouldn't add anything anymore, unless it's something that really needs to be added (otherwise the features soon start to become needlessly hard to keep track of, I'd think - too much "clutter"), or if it relates to something already on the lists.

Now you just have to treat every other race with similiar care. :hehe:

Here's some pitches for ghouls:

Pro:
100% radiation resistance.
Radiation heals over time (slowly).
Kinsman ability, feral ghouls and aggressive SM's are more likely to leave the player alone if not provoked (not being friendly, just having a possibility to be less agressive and ignore the player).
Slightly more HP than humans.
Bonus to initial reaction for non-feral ghouls, neutral/friendly SM's and human ghoulsympathisers (excluding characters with set mindsets).

Cons:
No natural DT or DR.
+15% recieved damage.
(those two due to skin and flesh conition)
Initial reaction from humans halved (other than ghoulsympathisers).
Slower movement than humans.