So, while having a discussion about how the BoS seen in Fallout 4 may actually be the Midwestern BoS from Fallout Tactics, some people have said that Fallout Tactics is not considered canon. However, i remember seeing Emil Pagliarulo say that parts of it are canon, and i also specifically remember seeing a tweet from Pete Hines stating that high level events of Fallout Tactics are indeed canon. Anyone able to find a link to that tweet? Tried googling it, but couldn't find it.

The Midwestern BoS is mentioned by Scribe Rothchild in Fallout 3, and Caesar in Fallout: New Vegas also mentions them. Caesar talks about how he's captured Brotherhood Scribes back east that didn't even know the name of the Brotherhood's founder, Roger Maxson. Plus, during the quest he gives you to destroy the Mojave BoS bunker, he seems to have a bit of experience with trying to take out Brotherhood bunkers, he talks about how much of a pain in the ass they are to eliminate, and how formidable/dangerous BoS Paladins are. Plus, you gotta wonder where his Centurion's got the T-45d pieces of their piecemeal armor.

Personally, i find the idea of Caesar's Legion being able to take on the Midwestern BoS a bit ridiculous. A bunch of guys in retrofitted sports gear wielding machetes and tossing spears being able to take on probably the largest Brotherhood chapter, with plenty of Paladins wearing Power Armor and using high end Energy Weapons? You'd think Caesar's Legion would get slaughtered by the superior firepower. Hell, that may be why Caesar's Legion is pushing West instead of East. Maybe his Legion blitzed a few of the most western Midwestern BoS bunkers in Colorado and took them by surprise, but the rest of the Midwestern BoS organized and mobilized, and Caesar couldn't even begin to hope to push further east then. Especially if it is indeed the Midwestern BoS in Fallout 4, and they got Vertibirds and a [censored] Zeppelin.

Nobody knows that..... I bet it's Lyons BoS personally...

Fallout Tactics is canon at its highest level events, as you mentioned.

However, its generally assumed that the "destroy the Calculator" ending of Tactics is the canon one, and that, after that, they suffered a decline. Rothchild calls them "a small detachment" which suggests they are no longer the super massive force they were at the end of Tactics.

In regards to Caesar, he only mentions capturing scribes, not actually fighting them in combat. Whats more, is that the only known MWBoS bases/outposts near Caesar's lands are Vault 0, and some small outposts in Denver and Boulder, the MwboS doesn't have numerous bunkers over near Caesar's lands, most of their forces are in the area between Chicago and east-central Kansas.

I'm putting my money on the midwest BoS as well, given the time frame and many other things you've already stated. As to whether tactics is canon or not it's pretty much semi-canon since they seem to be taking some elements from it while completely ignoring others but until it's officially confirmed who knows.

Then again nothing from New Vegas has been marked down as canon so I'm wondering whether or not we'll get any references to it in FO4. (Though 4 is around the same time as 3 and the 2 are before the events of NV right? I can't remember but if that's the case then we probably won't hear much about what's going on/ happened in the west.)

3 is before NV yes, and Fallout 4 is said to be 200 years after the war, but also after the events of Fallout 3, which would place it sometime around just after Broken Steel ends.

On the other hand, Bethesda is so anol about not doing prequels that they actually made Obsidian change NV's time frame to be after Fo3, when Obsidian originally wanted to set it between Fo2 and Fo3, becuase they don't go backwards in time. So it would be odd if Bethesda broke thier own decade+ long habit, and made Fo4 be set before NV.

I thought 3 and 4 are same timeline or not that far apart.... Refresh me..

I still say Lyons

Even if Legion did not have the firepower to take on MWBOS (which they do by the way, just go look at the equipment lists of Legionnaire NPC's, generic and named.) they don't need raw firepower. They didn't for Searchlight, the monorail, the assassination of the president, Nipton or spreading false information through official NCR reports. Besides, only the elite in MWBOS gets power armor and top tier weaponry. Their recruits are most likely worse trained than legionnaires are, legionnaires are also zealots who will stop at nothing to please the glory of Caesar. MWBOS recruits are pretty much just that, recruits. I doubt those low level grunts hold the same zeal towards an ideal as legionnaires do.

(I'm not saying that Legion>MWBOS, not at all. I'm just saying that there are more things to consider than just smashing a legionnaire toy against a paladin toy until one of 'em breaks. Legion would definitely had issues with the MWBOS, but they are more than just spearchuckers and machete madmen.)

As to why Legion didn't push east instead of west, did you exhaust all of Caesar's dialogue options? He explicitly states that his goal is the NCR and has been for a long time. He wants the Legion and NCR to merge and shed the bad ideals so that only the good aspects of both can flourish in a synthesis. Why the hell would he wanna march down east?

Anyway, Tactics is fully canon to me apart from direct contradictions. I don't care what Bethesda says is canon and what isn't. They don't get to decide canon for me.

-Fallout 3's main game begins on August 17th, 2277.

-The great war happened on October 23rd, 2077

-According to Pete Hines, Fallout 4 begins 200 years after the war, meaning it would begin on October 23rd, 2277, several months after Fo3 does.

However, Bethesda's past stance on "no prequels" would make that odd, as it would mean Fo4 takes place before NV, which begins in 2281.

I am not trying to say Fo4 doesn't happen before NV, only that it would be odd if it did based on Bethesda's past history.

ahh OK...thanks mang...

I wouldn't say it'd odd, personally. The two games core events have no standing on each other, really. With small consideration of Ed-E having been sent from the East Cost. the events of the Courier and the Lone Wanderer do not cross or touch on each other in any way, separated by an entire nation.

If anything, it acts as the titular sequel to Fallout 3, taking place roughly during the climix of events or accumulation thereof of Fallout 3 in the background, while Boston deals with it's own affairs.

What this means with the BOS, I can't really say. I have no problem with it being the Lyons Pride. My personal play style, I can get along with them fine. But I'm not going to gnash my teeth if it's the midwest or some other chapter.

Which is the point I was making, the events of NV would have no effect on the LW in D.C., even if it was set before Fo3.

Bethesda still made them change it becuase

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/interviews/7500-Feargus-Urquhart-Comes-Home.2

"We [also] talked a lot about when it should occur in the timeline. Originally, we thought that it didn't take place after Fallout 3 and that it took place between Fallout 2 and Fallout 3. When Bethesda thinks about their worlds, they always want to be pressing forward. So every game just moves the timeline forward. That's one of the things they said "No," and that's why it takes place years after Fallout 3."

Even if the events of Fo3 are happening at the same time as those in Fo4, it wouldn't matter. Boston is like 500 miles away. There is no reason to put in before NV.

After reading your reply it got me curios about bethesda making obsidian change the timeframe and such

and that also reminds me, if obsidian ever gets the chance to dev a game it'll have to be after fo4? Just curious.

I don't know, if Bethesda has changed their minds on the whole "no prequels" thing then no, it wont HAVE to be. Will be it? Who knows.

Yeah, the Calculator destroyed is the most likely canon ending. The Midwestern BoS does suffer some setbacks and adversity for a short while after their defeat of the Calculator, but they recover from that and become powerful once more, as seen in the ending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYS_Bo2ixNg

I don't see Caesar taking Vault 0, that would be the most heavily defended MW BoS location. The MW BoS would fight to the last man for that place, considering all they went through to take it in the first place. Fallout Tactics ended in 2198, Fallout 3 and (supposedly) Fallout 4 take place in 2277. That's 79 years after the end of Fallout Tactics, plenty of time for the Midwestern BoS to recuperate from their war with the Calculator, and expand once more.

The fact that neither Lyons, who would have likely had to walk through most of the Midwest to reach D.C., nor Caesar, who controls Denver, which is just a few miles up the road from Vault 0, mention the MwBoS having a large army, suggests that they likely collapsed sometime later.

The future isn't always good for people, and there is no guarantee that in those 79 years they would have kept expanding and growing after defeating the Calculator. Its just as likely that without a big enemy to fight, the formerly militaristic MwBoS would lose their purpose, and largely collapse since thier war-based existance would come to a halt.

That's why i'm hoping it is the Midwestern BoS in Fallout 4, so we can get some more info on what's been going on with them. There are some theories that the Midwestern BoS may have allied with the Enclave and exchanged tech. The Enclave Power Armor in Fallout 3 looks damn similar to the MW BoS' Power Armor, ED-E in Lonesome Road says that there is an Enclave outpost in Chicago, and now we got a "mystery" BoS with Zeppelins and Vertibirds in Fallout 4 during (supposedly) 2277.

-The airship has the word Prydwen on the side of it.
-Prydwen was the name of a boat used by King Arthur, aka Arthur Maxson, who is under the care of Owyn Lyons.
-Lyons, as in Lyonesse, an ancient kingdom in Arthurian mythology who were early allies of King Arthur.
-And in the trailers we have seen in fo4, the BoS seems to be aggressively invading Boston, which is part of The Commonwealth, aka the New England Commonwealth, one of 13 commonwealths that existed before the war.
-And King Arthur (Maxson) was destined to rule (New) England.

It would also connect to "The song of the Lightman" found in Arthur's room

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Song_of_the_Lightman

"Tweedle dumpling, tweedle dare,
Curse the younglings, if you care.
For theirs is youth, and joy, and power,
Five made one in the Lightman's tower.
And when they come, these five of sun,
The Lightman's progeny have won.
So sound the trumpets, clear and loud!
And think beyond the Eastern shroud."

>Five made one in the Lightman's tower.
The five major "wastelands" of the east coast, D.C., The Pitt, The Commonwealth, The Broken Banks, and Ronto
>The Lightman's progeny
The BoS, the "children" of the Maxson, founder of the BoS, keepers of the pre-war tech, bringing "light", aka technology and knowledge, to the blasted wastes.

>And think beyond the Eastern shroud."

The Eastern shroud is the east coast. After we have seen the 5 major wastes, we will move beyond it.

Bethesda loves their historical metaphors too much, and wouldn't pass up the chance IMO. I am 99% sure its Lyons, somehow.

If the 2277 date is confirmed, I'm not.

Pete Hines has never said 2277.

And even if it was, do you REALLY put it past Bethesda to not do something dumb like "even though its only been two months since the end of Bokren Steel, the massive surge of recruits from turning on Porject Puirty, as well as all the encalve tech at Adam, has allowed them to build all this stuff and invaide Boston!"

Personally, I expect it to be the Lyons' BoS, but I'd much prefer the Midwestern chapter. Or maybe both.

I'm 99% sure F4 has a full-grown advlt Arthur Maxson, and takes place several years after Fallout 3 and New Vegas. They wouldn't have named the airship "Prydwen" unless they were going for a King Arthur angle... and they wouldn't make a new Arthur figure for the Brotherhood if they've already got Arthur Maxson. That seems more logical than taking the "200 years" tweet completely literally.

And I'm not sure they would bring the Midwestern Brotherhood into the mix unless they felt they needed to. I'd rather them get some full attention in a midwest-set game rather than have them dragged over to the east coast.

If they were bringing the MWBoS into the mix, I find it unlikely they would get rid of their rather iconic power armor for the generic T-45, T-51, and T-60 armor we see the BoS using in Fo4.

Beth has shown to be very iffy about canonising player actions and unlike NV, this time they have a recent past to keep in mind. If the 200 years mention is any accurate, that means they cant pull the Skyrim trick of letting 4 take pkace super lobg after 3.

This would leave them with only one narrative trick, place 4 so close time wise to 3 that they can argue that the knowledge of what happened at DC hasnt spread much yet.

The producer of Fallout Tactics, Tony Oakden, said he wished that they designed the Midwestern BoS Power Armor differently, since it's look didn't fit the Fallout setting. On the other hand, we got the Enclave Power Armor in Fallout 3, which is pretty similar.

The iconic MW BoS Power Armor may still show up, similar to how the retro Enclave Remnants Power Armor showed up in New Vegas.

I'd expect FO4 takes place around 2290 (213 is close enough to 200 to be called 200 years later) and I'd say CWBOS under maxson.
The MWBoS I'd guess will be used in NV 2 (whatever it gets called) probably using the warrior neutral (tho the dark ending would be fun)