Fallout: Tactics Ending : Fallout Series Discussion

» Sun May 05, 2013 10:22 am

Hello Forum! I recently made a topic concerning the Canon choices of the Fallout protagonists over the course of the series. While the Developers have made certain choices Canon in later games, some choices still haven't been given a Canon outcome yet. Specifically I'm interested in the ending of Fallout: Tactics. I know I've put this question on my poll in my other recent topic, but I was hoping to make a thread specifically for the purpose of discussing the different endings to Fallout: Tactics and which one fits Canon best. I personally love the Barnaky Ending and it would be good if it were made Canon. But for some reason, it just doesn't seem “right“. The dialogue in Fallout 3 for example, seems to work against the Barnaky ending. If I had to make a guess, I'd say the Canon ending is the Warrior destroying the Calculator since without it the Midwestern Brotherhood would remain a smaller chapter and Lyons comment about it “hitting hard times” makes sense and fits the ending. But I'm not sure. That's why I'd like to know your opinions. Which ending do you think SHOULD be Canon and which ending do you think is most likely to actually BE Canon? If you could take the time to answer the poll and leave your opinions it would be much appreciated.

» Sun May 05, 2013 5:58 am

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwvnREVigyo

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwvnREVigyo

Given that its been something like 90 years timeline wise since Fallout Tactics. It is safe to say that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYOjl6X-XD0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hug8-CKheM8 aren't the canon options. Why? Because both endings would have the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel becoming a super power to rival the NCR or the Legion and they would have greatly expanded in that 90 years or so. They haven't.

Based on Fallout 3's mention of them being in Chicago and the possible mention of them in Fallout New Vegas, which would place them in Colorado. They haven't expanded but still hold onto most if not all the territroy they gained in Fallout Tactics. So this leaves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76J4o-7u4VMand Barnaky Endings as options.

I favour the Barnaky Ending because it is the best IMO. It has the great betrayal of the mutants and it creates the Mutant Liberation Army. It would also make the MWBoS into a much more interesting faction. Not that they weren't already interesting, but Barnaky just makes it even better.

My idea as to what happened to the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel after the end of Fallout Tactics. Based on the
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwvnREVigyo&feature=youtu.be

===>

Spoiler

» Sun May 05, 2013 8:23 am

Just incase people didn't know. The Midwestern Brotherhood are bad ass even without the Barnaky Ending.

They use crucifiction as a punishment and a deterrent for others. They also make use of forced labour camps, internment camps and gulags aka deathcamps and have inquisitors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89aqJTZDRcA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8WR-4_5-QY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9pgvrs_j3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5kv-zWRstk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmZqBUvlx3k&feature=youtu.be

They also work POWs to death...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur0_XLiF2Ug

They do want humanity to return to civilization no matter how odd ball they might be..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_FXR-L0ds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4acAV46vvQ

» Sun May 05, 2013 1:23 am

I'm always curious as to what would have happened to the Warrior in the Barnaky ending. Do you think he/she would have gone along with the Great Betrayal or not?

» Sun May 05, 2013 8:26 am

I suspect destroy will be the canon ending. Putting a brain in a tank for decades never ends well in the Fallout universe. Plus, Destroy is a good combination of the the usual optimism we seen in canon endings without shaking the status quo as hard as the other endings.

» Sun May 05, 2013 9:11 am

As much as I'd like the Barnaky ending to be Canon, I also suspect if there's a Canon ending it will be Destroy. But I would love to be proven wrong.

» Sun May 05, 2013 5:29 am

You never know really, I think Bethesda is probably aware of the general fan love for Barnaky's ending. And who knows, maybe they'll take a chance with an ending which isn't the designated "good ending" for once.

If they don't go with Barnaky though, I'd prefer if they not mention it. I'd like it to remain personal head-canon for as long as possible in that case.

» Sat May 04, 2013 8:54 pm

IMO it should be a combo.

Destroy, but that does not mean the end of the Barnaky faction, as he could still be alive.

I just don't want the Calculator around any more. Plus, the Calculator just feeds on the brain and draws characteristics from it, Barnakey would just be dead and the real power would be the Calculator once again. It isn't like Barnakey controls the calculator, at least that was never the sense I had.

But if Barnakey still alive, then he would and could be followed, and all the things that happened could still happen albeit in a slightly different manner.

Plus i would really like the return of Sgt Hartman doing some quality voice acting. R.Lee Ermey.

» Sun May 05, 2013 12:01 pm

I think we can all safely assume that the good and bad karma endings are noncanon.

I think Barnaky should be canon.

I think that destroy is probably gonna end up canon.

» Sat May 04, 2013 9:01 pm

Well that is an interesting area that Bethesda could go into. Which would make for a more compelling story. I was working on some fan fiction along those lines, haven't touched it in a year. Was thinking of starting it up again. Anyways on topic.. Mutants still join the MWBoS even if the Warrior doesn't help the ghouls of Quincy, Kills the Deathclaw Mother and destroys the mutants lab. So it could be said that the Warrior was always a Barnaky supporter. Which would make sense as to why he would have allowed Barnaky to join with the Warrior.

But to me a more interesting thing would be if the Warrior helped mutants but was loyal to Barnaky. Maybe Barnaky was the one who brought him into the Brotherhood and became almost like a father figure. So the Warrior lets Barnaky join out of respect and loyalty. When Barnkay starts his mutant killing, the Warrior joins the MLA.

Then again it would be interesting to not really know what happened to the Warrior after the Vault Zero battle. Could just fade into history.

Edit: And by mutants "joining" the MWBoS even if the Warrior doesn't help the mutants in the game. The Mutants never really were welcomed as equals into the MWBoS. The Elders that wanted them into the BoS wanted them simply because they would be useful in situations that would be harmful to humans, such as going into a radioactive environment. Barnaky himself points out that the Elders don't like them. It is only in the Good and Bad Endings that mutant discrimination is outlawed.

» Sat May 04, 2013 10:34 pm

Barnaky joined the courier? Got NV on yer mind, Styles

» Sun May 05, 2013 5:00 am

They could always take a third (or technically, fifth) option and say it concluded in a manner none of the endings described. Like the Mutant Liberation Army winning, then disbanding when the MWBoS has been reduced to scattered remnants.

Edit: Alternately, such could probably be chalked up to the Barnaky ending, only where Barnaky's reforms and the subsequent conflict were gradual and long-running enough, the Mutant Liberation Army is driven west, only to find by that point, the old Brotherhood is too busy fighting a war with the NCR to deal with the MLA. They regroup, perhaps gain new supporters, then push back east, and this time manage to win the war. The Calculator is destroyed and the Midwestern Brotherhood is reduced to fragments, such as in Colorado and Chicago, and the Mutant Liberation Army, its mission complete, disbands and its members live out their lives.

» Sun May 05, 2013 4:45 am

Well technically it is a longgggg time since the end of Tactics, so whatever the ending was, a lot has happened in the meantime.

The most important thing to do is have it make sense within the realm of current events.

Ie it would make no sense for a massive robot army under BoS control to exist. They would have ruled the USA with such a thing.

So, you can rule that out.

» Sun May 05, 2013 3:22 am

At the time

As for the massive robot army. It could be said that the ability to control the robots was badly damaged in some sort of coup.

Also Vault Zero only had a small amount of power to spare to control and build robots. So the Calculator had to us outside power source such as the Buena Vista nuclear plant and that was used to power a number of manufacturing centers around the wasteland. The MWBoS destroyed the reactor (at least took it off line but it could be said they destroyed it) and they destroyed the manufacturing centers before the attack on Vault Zero. So the BoS wouldn't have access to a large robot army unless they found a working nuclear reactor and repaired all the manufacturing centers they destroyed.

It could be said that they didn't have the time or the resources to do all that. So in the end, they are left with what Vault Zero can provided, and it isn't much.

So in a sense they could end up like Mr.House. An army of robots but without the ability to control them in a very large distance and without the power to run them all and build large numbers. So the robots they do have get sent to their bunkers and outposts across the Midwest which spreads them thin.

» Sun May 05, 2013 4:47 am

Question: what does it matter if the Calculator is destroyed if the factions and such are the same? Ie MLA and a Barnaky BoS?

Imo, the Calculator is irrelevant to that happening.

» Sun May 05, 2013 12:08 am

To me it wouldn't be the same if Barnaky is dead. Sure the MWBoS could still follow his ideals, but it wouldn't be the same.

Barnaky becoming a 1984 Big Brother type figure, an image of him in every bunker and outpost with others governing areas in his name. With inquisitors acting on his orders.

The Robot Army can easily be explained as to why they haven't overrun the wasteland.

A ) The manufacting centers to build them are destroyed and the MWBoS don't have the time or resources to build/rebuild the centers.

B ) There is no real source of power outside of the Vault Zero power source to power tons of robots and large manufacturing centers.

C ) Barnaky ends up getting damaged in an attack and his control over Vault Zero's systems aren't that great.

D ) Could be that over the decades of him being one with the Calculator he is losing mental control slowly.

So it could be said that the robots are divided up between bunkers, towns and outposts across the Midwestern United States and are powered by different sources. They could be controlled by Underlings of Barnaky or run independent programs. Barnaky can take control of them if he wishes. New robots are few and far between.

It would be great if Bethesda kept the Behemoth Robots and the others.

» Sat May 04, 2013 11:04 pm

We'd still have remnants of the East Coast Enclave for the "devil power armored, technologically advanced, mutant-hating fascists determined to rebuild civilization" crowd, and Caesar's Legion for the "militaristic, tribe-assimilating, crucifixion-happy conquerors" crowd.

» Sun May 05, 2013 3:08 am

But Barnaky is not dead if the Calculator is destroyed.

He still alive....

Barnaky doesn't control the Calculator, if his brain used, the Calculator uses his brain and just draws his personality/ideas.

So that what my question meant. What does it matter if calculator destroyed as long as the factions, and Barnaky used.

Plus it would be nigh impossible to setup a network where Barnaky/Calculator sees everything. IMO.

» Sun May 05, 2013 12:23 pm

I am going off the ending, Barnaky joins with the Calculator. You are talking about if Barnaky survives in that robot body of his and still becomes the leader of the MWBoS.
That isn't following the ending. That is creating another ending.

Also he doesn't have to be able to see eveything at once at all times. Just that his people think he can. His will would be carried out by inquisitors and his top generals.

The one advantage to your idea is that we could actually see Barnaky in person if he is in his robot form. To me that isn't really needed.

But let me just say that I am very happy we are even having this conversation

» Sun May 05, 2013 7:32 am

Indeed I am suggesting an alternate path to the Calculator destroyed ending.

Mainly because, whatever ending is decided upon, will be greatly altered, due to the fact a lot of time has passed.

So, I don't consider it an alternate ending as much as a possible path. You are also describing alternate paths when trying to limit the powerof the robot army. Which is fine, the only way a brain ending to exist would be with a path that limits the power of the robot army.

My idea, of Barnaky still alive can work the same way as calculator alive, in that it still achieves the goals of the factions we want, and limits the power of the robot army, which we both do in our own way.

Personally, I have had enough of computers for awhile, and wouldn't want to see one again, at least as a major player, until say FO5 or 6.

Another thing they could end up doing is Barnakys brain was put in the calculator and then removed and placed into a new robot body, perhaps merging with SCIENCE Barnaky + some kind of essence/data whatever of the Calculator.

Either way you get BoS and MLA etc etc

» Sun May 05, 2013 6:27 am

What about if his brain was put inside the Calculator, then he did all the things he did, then there was an assassination attempt that failed but damaged the Calculator so they had to take his brain out again because of the risk the damaged Calculator posed, and they put the brain back in a robot again! Woooh, I just merged both of your alternate ideas!

Nah, well, as long as we get the MLA and a fascistic Brotherhood with inquisitors led by Barnaky or at least his ideas, then I don't mind what form he arrives in. He could be dead by the time of this story line for all we know, it's just that the elders are still loyal to his ideals. Kind of like the USSR, how most dictators after Stalin were cut from the same tree. Reformists died "strange" deaths. There could still be propaganda around that depict Barnaky and such, although he's long dead.

» Sun May 05, 2013 8:49 am

The problem with the Barkley ending is the MWBoS is in any ending far to active in outside recruitment to remain a secret or hide from Lyon's. And Barkley certainly would have heard about new Super Mutants on the east coast before Lyon's left California and would send forces into DC to eliminate the mutant threat. Styles according to your own posted video the MLA loses the war against Barkley and progress pushes forward. There is no indication that the MWBoS was left weakened or vulnerable in an ending except in the one where the calculator is destroyed. The endings don't always cover everything that happened from one game to the next. None of the endings for New Reno in Fallout 2 mention the Van Graffs yet we know from New Vegas they showed up one day and carved out a power base in the town.

So if the calculator survived the events of tactics something entirely different must have been responsible for the fall of the MWBoS. The forty-five years between Tactics and Fallout 2 are long enough that everything that occurs in Barkley's ending slide could have happened.

Example: During the Enclave's retreat east, The MWBoS stood in their way. Rather then risk a confrontation(or allow such power to be in the hands of subhumans) they sent a self-destruct code to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex.(which Vault 0 was built into). The resulting explosion destroyed Vault 0 and the Calculator sending the robot army into a frenzy. The surviving members of the MWBoS then retreated back to Chicago maintaining only a minimalist presence in the Midwest. The Civilization they built reduced to ruin before the robot army destroyed it self.
Government bunkers in the Fallout Universe seem to have a predisposition to self-destruct commands and its reasonable the Enclave know the codes for most of them. This does however give a rather grim Dropped a bridge on him ending to Barnkay

Another consideration.
The Warrior who we presume would continue to lead the MWBoS in the event of the calculator destruction would probably live another forty or maybe fifty years. This gives the immortal inside a robot Barnkay forty or fifty years to screw everything up by betraying the mutants. Or if the Warrior is a major A-hole he and Barnkay turn on the mutants immediately despite not having the support of the calculator.

Given its the Warrior's choice to put Barnkay's brain in the Calculator I'd say yes.

» Sun May 05, 2013 6:35 am

The Ending doesn't say the MLA is defeated, only that it is driven back west to a land controlled by the Old Brotherhood. The Ending will have to be tweaked to fit the current timeline and changes. Such as its been something like 90 years and the Old BoS no longer controls the West, if they ever really did. I am saying that it could easily be changed to say that Barnaky turns on his own people, causing a civil war of sorts. Many leave to join the MLA or just leaves in general.

The only other Ending that would work would be the nuetral ending and even that ending has the MWBoS rebuilding and becoming stronger. So 90 years would be more then enough time for them to become a super power using Vault Zero as a main base. But that ending is IMO boring.

@evlbastrd. I am not saying your idea is bad. I just have a prefrence to my idea and I feel it makes more sense. The power plant and the centers to build the robots the calculator were destroyed. So I am not making that up for an alturnative path. That would seriously limit the robot army in the long run. The rest is the tweaking part.

Barnaky wouldn't be a computer, he would be himself inside of the computer.

» Sun May 05, 2013 5:10 am

That doesn't make sense at all. The Enclave remnants wouldn't be able to blow up Vault Zero. They wouldn't have the ability to do so and if the Enclave gave a crap about the place they would have taken interest in it earlier on. Also even if they did destroy it. The MWBoS have bases all across the Midwestern United States. Sure losing Vault Zero would be a big blow, but it wouldn't almost wipe them out and force them to retreat back to Chicago.

» Sun May 05, 2013 12:44 pm

No it makes sense.

The Cheyenne Mountain Complex was a key military installation and as we've seen in the Fallout series government installations seems to have a dispositions to having self-destruct mechanisms built into them. The Enclave could easily possess the command codes to detonate the Cheyenne Mountain Complex.

During their retreat east they see it occupied by the brotherhood(Vault 0 having been built into the Cheyenne Mountain), they lack the resources to take it back from the MWBoS and instead opt to activate the installation's self destruct. Either from remote or because they still possessed T-51b style suits in Fallout 2 infiltration. The mountain collapses onto Vault Zero destroying the Calculator and sending the Robot Army in the field into a frenzy. The MW Brotherhood is caught off guard and suffers heavy losses fighting off the machines.

Now if the Barkley's brain was used they have no vault 0, no robot army and a more hostile local population. Giving a resurgence of the MLA more room to work with.