WE AREN'T ASKING FOR THEM TO REPLACE REAL TIME. "No body wants that", way to go ahead and act like you speak for the millions of people who play RPGs. How? The same bloody was a [censored] modder was able to, you think that they are not as skilled as some modder, well i actually give them credit, unlike some of you.

No,No stats like still are a major part of how effective you are in combat. That is why you crush everything when you get high in level.

Early to mid game stats are huge. Its not even close to a fps.

The real problem IMO is that enemies can t cope with your half leveled up player, because thier stats svck. Bos Paladin level 11 67ew? Come on.......... If enemy stats are way worse than yours you will crush them turn based or not.

J.E. Sawer already told us why it isn t hard to alot of people.

They make it so everyone can get through the game. They didn t make it just for me and you, but they made it for millions.

I made a play through with out putting any skill in to any weapon. all it took were more bullets to win.
its silly. if i did that in FO1 or 2 I'd be Hosed only 1/5th in to the game.
the last time skills meant anything in a Bethesda brand game was morrowind where you could actually Miss something (due to character skill, Not playerskill / Poor aim)

That is more due to our much higher health, wealth, and stock of ammunition and good guns, regardless of the skill requirments of those guns, you could have 1 Guns and still own if you had a Marksman Carbine.

They are not going to make it as hard as old games. No matter how much we want them to. A level 11 67 ew bos Paladin stats prove this.

Bos in lore are walking tanks 100ew 8st and should have 30-35 dt pa and about 400 hp. Then they would be hard when you leveled up, because only the best weapons and good stats and using your brain would beat them.

Back in the day I bet bos and Enclave were scoring -140 hp point criticals, and if you had a 9mm smg you were doing like -13 hp.

They will not make the game too hard, because of all the cry babies.

Look how many threads have been started about how hard cazadors are. Imagine the crybabies if bos was really bos like, or cl was like Point Lookout tribals. Too many people would

you'd actually be doing less damage (unless you burst fired)

sub machinegun in Fo2 did 5-12 damage per shot. Advaced Power Armor (mk1) has a resistance of 55% to "Normal" Damage making your damage range 2.75 - 6.6 per bullet
with a burst rate of 10 rounds. if (and its a BIG if) all bullets hit the target you would do a Whopping 27.5-66.6 damage (an enclave soldier has 200hp stock)

I never disagreed that turn base base should be optional, but I am on the side that turn base games wouldn't sell in today's market. If you want fallout 4 to be turn based then you're just going to be disapointed... I highly doubt they would even make it optional. Optional turn base isn't a bad idea don't get me wrong I like choices in games but its just something that I think we just have to say goodbye too.

Its like old movies, old movies are great even if they don't have special affects they have today but majority of people don't want old special effects in new movies. And its just the reality of things that if you want to make a massive amount of money its better to sell to the majority, or the bigger market than the smaller market. People who like turn base are in the minority... hate to say it but its true.

Yeah they kind of took away fallout being a traditional RPG when they made 3/NV... Not to say I didn't like fallout/nV but they still could have made a great game if they made it more like a traditional RPG than a first person shooter with some RPG elements. I think if they did it a little bit more like knights of the old republic games it'd be more of an RPG than a FPS. Obsidian made knights of the old republic 2 and that game was epic maybe they should have taken a lesson from that game when they made NV.

Right Just give me control of thd bad ass NPCs stats and I could make you think it was like old school games. They just won t make hardasses hard anymore, because of the crybadies.

If I had control of NCR, CL, Bos, Enclave, Talon Company stats I d make people quit. People don t want to use thir brains anymore.

Turn based or not they will make the game for the lowest common denominator.

The new engine may give them better ai, but I wouldn t hold my breath that hard asses will really be hard. As in old school rpg hard.......

i love how everyone has voted then said what they voted for after......look i enjoyed both games.....bethesda will make it and will learn things like the multiple endings...which obsidian showed made for many different enjoyable play throughs....bethesda creates a better quality game however....but this poll is kinda a silly one...cause bethesda game studios already started pre production and i'm waiting for them to get skyrim out of the way to start working on it....

This.

Though if I had to choose, I'd say Bethesda, since it actually belongs to them and it's the most likely outcome, but with Obsidian pitching in with writing and perhaps even doing some or all of the DLC.

But I would like to see another Obsidian-developed side game, since that'd mean more west coast goodness, since Bethesda will in all likelihood stick to the east coast.

Bethesda. Until Obsidian can ship a game without huge nasty game ending bugs in it I consider them hacks at best.

But people don't want old special effects we want a different type of effect. People keep saying TB is old or obsolete but that doesn't make it so. We obviously don't want a TB system just like the in the original Fallouts. Just as RT has evolved over the decades it has been around TB can evolve and improve too. The TB combat in Jagged Alliance 2 is still unbeatable in many ways. Now imagine what TB combat can be like over a decade later with vastly more processor power available.

I for one am glad it's been lost, and I'm old enough to remember Pong and Space Invaders. I hated isometric, turn based games way back then; I'm certainly not going to like it any more now. If you want/need those types of gameplay then you should probably go back and play the originals, or find another game that offers that style.

If not fallout 4 having the optional turn based, maybe the next Fallout game Obsidian does. Assuming they get more time and freedom.

I'd be just happy with a SPECIAL system that has more emphasis in character skill > player skill (like make it near impossible to snipe something with low Perception). I'd also like to have the different damage types back along with a better system than just DR or just DT, maybe with both. They have just as much damage types in ES. (normal, non normal, magic types, etc..)

Actually the point I was trying to make that old movie special effects are unpopular. If mass majority of people liked cheesy fake looking old style special effects then movies would still be that way. Not the greatest anology I know...

I dont think theres anyway optional turn based could work. FO is a FPS view now so how could it work? Like final fantasy?? They would have to make the game two different ways. I'll never be against something optional because you can always choose not to use it. Theres also plenty of people want the option to free roam the map after the games completed, which remember is only an option, but people are against it. It makes no sense to me. The more options the better!

Would you, personally, be concerned about sales dropping - if they did? And who's to say a portion of those millions of new fans wouldn't be able to adopt a well made TB system?

I agree about the integrity part, up to a point. If there wasn't a clear design focus, that would be the case. However, with the tech of today, all is possible regarding this issue.

Who wants Fallout 3 to be "fixed into a15-year-old game"? The next should be a new game - and preferably with new tech and new ideas (and TB not being made in western RPG's anymore for years, could be considered "new").

It sure can be improved. I agree. TB was the subject at hand, so that's what I was discussing. It's not the only thing I want fixed/improved, nor is it the most important aspect of the game, but it is among the most important things to me.

Stats play very little role in Fallout 3, they're - as it feels - there more for flavor than anything else, because the masses who made Fallout 3 the "blockbuster" can't be attempted to be made to think in their games (and before you jump, that isn't saying anything about the masses, just about the production values of the game -- cuddly, soft, and trying too hard to be everything for everyone and thus failing). New Vegas fixed some of that, but not quite enough (the direction was right, it just didn't go far enough).

Ahem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFABEnF7b6I (Very crude beta(alpha?) but refine it and polish it up and it could be an awesome TB mode.)

LOL that made me laugh. as iv'e said I don't understand why anyone would want to go back to that style, but if its optional, I wouldn't mind. FO already has lots of bug and problems, would implementing two games into one not be a recipe for disaster?

Two games?

well two different styles then.

I don't think that the problem lies in "creating them", the problem lies in "balancing them".
Both FO3 and NV are unbalanced though so I hardly think it'll be anymore of a problem than it already is.

not two difficult plenty of games have had rt and tb combat optional, i think arcanum did, i mean looking at that one mod if you can do it easily without either mode suffering why not on the flip side i would rather have a good rt than a [censored] rt plus a [censored] tb mode, so id say bethesda should at least look into making it an option in the menu under gameplay, and if its relatively simple to do without affecting how most people play then why not add something for those of us that like it and enjoy that style of gaming

"New fans" began calling us "old fans" that, and we adapted the name. Kind of.



On the topic:
I think if they made VATS more turn-based, it would be cool. It'd be optional like when you see an enemy or an enemy engages you, press V and you'll get the regular body parts targeting up (with eyes and groins as options of course), you place your shots and see if you fail or not.
Say there are three raiders. You kill this first one you aimed at, spent all your AP doing so. But there are two left. Instead of exiting VATS and into RT again, you will see the raiders targeting your or your companions body parts with their choice of weapon. Either the one they are holding, or they pull of a grenade and throw, or they pull up a melee weapon and use their AP to run at you.
If you are injured, you can get into your inventory for an AP cost and use whatever healing chems and combat enhancing drugs you want, maybe switch to another weapon that works better against these raiders.
You aim your shots again and kill them.

And all this takes place in the same kind of cinematic slow-mo view we are familiar with in VATS so the action won't be boring like "cardboard cutouts" or whatever Curtis called it.
I mean, if one raider has a melee weapon and chose to spend his AP points running at you, he'll do so and when he runs out of them and it's your turn, he'll be frozen in his running animation towards you as you target his body parts and then kill him when time unfreezes again. If you decide to target the other raider, who is standing still, it would look dumb if the other raider was still frozen while you are shooting at the first one. So the running raider would of course run at you, but it's just for the looks, when it's your turn again, he hasn't really gotten any closer because that would be cheating right?

Trouble that I see is that you can't run and take cover or change position. The only way a character moves here is if he's charging in melee, and that goes for you aswell. If you have a melee weapon, you will use AP to run at your enemies until you can engage them (unless they are close enough already). But maybe as Bethesda is letting VATS go through an evolution like this, they also add the option that if you don't want to attack and use your AP on other things, like avoiding getting shot, then you can press a button instead of an enemy, that maybe says dodge. Your AP will be added to your Armor Class (from the old games - how good you are at dodging attacks) aswell as you Agility and your armor. Either you jump away from incoming fire, duck for an incoming machete slash or you have heavy armor like Power Armor and just deflect the bullets while trying to cover your weak spots. Anyways. there is so much potential in how they could make VATS really really awesome and more like turn-based. If I were a modder, I'd try doing something like this with VATS, but I have no knowledge at all. All I have is just this really good-looking idea in my head that I try to make sense of in text...

the Design philosophy of choices have consequences didn't just relate to the story, it Filtered down to the game play as well, turn based combat was a perfect fit. you should have to think about how to approach a situation. and how to act. in turn based combat you cant do everything like you can right now. you have a certain amount of action points to spend every turn (5 seconds) derived from your stats (agility). you cant just run 50 feet and expect to do anything with any semblance of accuracy. you have to manage you action points and you position on screen vs what your fighting. as well as if your going to fight back. (sometimes it was best to run away because you were over your head) moving takes time (ap) setting up, aiming and shooting takes time (ap), even standing still takes time (any unused AP gets translated in to a dodge modifier and Ups your AC making it harder to hit you)

if you want realtime so much I think time should flow while your in your pipboy menus. you can do all sorts of non realtime stuff in your pipboy like healing to full (outside of hardcoe mode), Pulling a weapon out of your pack, and changing armors. in FO1 or 2 if you tied to enter inventory you were docked AP because everything took time.

time is another resource alotted to you and you need to make sure you use it to the maximum of your abilities or you are dead