Sorry, but in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1561436-fallout-4-wide-as-an-ocean-deep-as-a-puddle/page-2#entry24596440 I was using a specific definition of depth, referenced to lack of depth in roleplayability of your character and pointing several issues of the of the game about story and the general fallout lore. Without this features and several others the game is indeed, very light in its consistency. It lacks a little polish.

If I wanted features, I definetively go for a riding deathclaw. And a personal vertibird or car like in fo2 for realistic fast-travel.

Ah, so you like magic. You want a pack of raiders to guard a quantum recipe for some reason, instead of just making it their temporary home and hanging out there when they are not raiding.

I'm finding this discussion of BOTH the lack of RPG depth and immersion in this thread really odd. Those two things are mutually exclusive. Immersion is a sensory simulation of presence and verisimilitude while rpg elements are artificial structures to quantify phenomena in a game system. Not that you can't have both, but that one has to happen at the expense of the other from the player's perspective. No developer could please the crowd here because they are at cross purposes.

Ah, so basically Skyrim, and before that Oblivion, and before that Morrowind, all over again.

Same argument; different people.

[censored] a, thank you. I cant believe people get on forums about a game they dont like, and spam all there [censored] to everyone. But, it has nothing to do with the game. They just want the attention, because they dont get any in the real world. Like a child acting out, just for attention, even if its negative. So sad......They would go away if no one commented on there bull [censored]

Respectfully, it appears as though the lack of your preferred features,or their implementation to your liking, has caused you to dismiss the other multiple complex systems present in the game. It's fine to argue about whether they work or not but I'm having trouble seeing your point that the game is shallow based both on what you list as its shortcomings and my own experience of the game.

Try playing a character of different racial backround like asian or african-american. You cant lest youre fine with looking like youre lip syncing with some masculine whiteguy narrating just out of player view

Here is my take on mods. Mods are not needed to fix a game, it just lets you remove annoyances you have with a game. I still enjoy vanilla Skyrim to this day, but mods let me fix a few tiny issues i have with the game. But if there never was mods i would still play the heck out of that game and love it to death. If you don't enjoy the vanilla experience of a game, then why bother with the game at all? Any other game experience that does not have mods will be judged by its good and bad, and if you like it that should be enough to squash the negativity and just enjoy what is there.

As to the complaining, you and a few others so far are the exception to the rule. As you actually seem to care enough to write something that both encompasses the good and the bad. Mostly it is just alot of whining though, and its getting old fast. I haven't been here on this forum long, and i am not trying to change it or its people. I am just curious as to why people spend time and energy on an already losing battle, if they knew it was lost in the first place. As i have said, i never would, but i want to understand the mindset of why some would.

We beaten this horse so badly itis not even a horse anymore just blood on the ground and we all got NFL contracts.

You do miss something, pal. Fallout was created by Black Isle Studios in 1997. It received crowds of hardcoe fans who will be waiting on anything what has 'Fallout' word in its title. They felt in love in universe created in 1997, not 2008. I feel 100% obligated to share MY opinion and show Bethesda what they are doing wrong with MY franchise. I can complain about its mechanics, story, dialogues, atmosphere because I want my favourite franchise back (thanks God we did receive New Vegas) and I remember times when these elements were done well back in previous Fallouts (except 3). I want to tell Bethesda what they HAVE TO change because they are doin' this game for ME - a Fallout fan!

And of course you do not complain on CDP forums about Witcher, because: 1. Their games are good, 2. They've created it. It's their franchise and they can do whatever they want. Bethesda BOUGHT a franchise, they are not creators and they have to respect its fans. Thats the difference.

Sorry, but how the fact that your MC have power armor training even she is a lawyer of the XXI century is a "lack of preferred feature"?

I think is you that do not understand the definition I am using for depth. The game does not have depth roleplay: As I said before, It was refered as a lack of options to express how you want your character to be, not only because you are forced on a fixed backstory. Also you are suppossed to be a survivor in the wasteland, you have to provide food and water for your settlements, but you do not have to eat, drink or sleep. I think it makes the game too casual and light. Your character also can learn everything and do everything.

The inconsistencies on the characters ( Cait and multiple romances, for instance) reforces this opinion. I like the game, but I found the mechanics very lazy and too combat-oriented.

Also the roleplay in this game is very very light because you have no real impact in the characters, the quest or the game with your actions or answers.

An example, dude and thats because.. Yknow. There was a group of raiders in a factory looking for a quantumn recipie in fallout 3, it wasnt "radiant" (hate em. Theyre literally for grinding purposes in skyrim)
But other locations; the dunwich building in fallout 3 - compare it to dunwich borders in fallout 4.
Building - has a deep, creepy past that the player is lead through via a l o t of notes, holotapes and terminals. Visuals hallicunations start the further you go into the place and you eventually find a person who read an book near an alter thats oddly worshipped by ghouls and emits radiation. You kill 'em and you get the book, loot and theres a few hidden items
Borders - you go there, kill raiders, get a bobblehead and a sword with a barely useful bonus.

The vaultsare another example - fallout 3's social experiments were alot more eerie, indepth and you understood alot more. There were different things to kill with different reasons for being there. Fallout 4 all but two vaults arent inhabited by raiders - one of em is empty now you left and the other is full of friendlies.

Sure, in fallout 4 the vaults have a few logs but when you find them - thats it. You know what happened there.

Oddly sunk more hours into 4 though. I do really freakin enjoy it. The progression is alot better to me and even the character creation is good in my books
Its just..
Todd
Pls
Y do u exagerrate so

Did food and water matter in Fallout 1 and 2?

Fixed it for you

Respectfully CDRP has made a fan fiction of a well established Polish book series. As the Author has claimed several times.

Yes i know, i was around then Fallout came out. And i have been playing these games for awhile. Its weird that somehow i can appreciate Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 as good contributions to the Fallout franchise as a whole then. Must be something very wrong with me, according to you. As you say its your franchise, well if we all have that attitude this franchise belongs to millions and everyone has an opinion on what it should be. And ofc you can complain, and share your opinion. I respect it, as i've said i just want to understand the mindset of people that do.

So because you're stuck on the idea that a lawyer can't use power armor and that you don't experience hunger, thirst or sleepiness you are saying the game lacks roleplaying depth?

First off, not that I think this is important, but if she was a lawyer married to a military officer, she could have been JAG corp., meaning she would have military training. Second, raiders, who exist in a world without a formal professional military also use power armor.

As to food/drink/sleep, you can do all that. Not to mention that you gain xp for preparing food and that the food and sleep give you stat boosts and various helpful statuses.

And then there are all the other things you can do in the game, all of which can be roleplayed however you wish. Settlement building, dealing with npc's and factions, developing your character, etc. I can spend hours just tending to all that and not even exploring. There is so much to do that I could not say that the lack of NV style hardcoe mode is going to ruin my day.

idk man, I played the hell out of FO3, but FO4's approach just seems so much more... realistic. When I'm reading the terminals of those random buildings, I feel like I'm reading into the lives of normal people just before the world ended. Sometimes it's pretty depressing. FO3 had its moments sure, like the dunwich building which was a very new experience for many, but I also really liked the continuation in this game. They didn't over do it, but it was creepy as hell and I was reminded of S.T.A.L.K.E.R., that's how it felt. The writing could be deeper, as does the dialogue options, choices and consequences, etc. That's a common complaint for Bethesda games though and should be the first issue they look at anyways. BIS [censored] also exagerrate, I should know, i have experience with them. Do you still remember the backlash when Fallout 3 was released? holy crap, this is nothing compared to those days.

fan - boi is now a censored word? interdasting..

The same thing happened with Skyrim. The vanilla game is enjoyable but with mods like Interesting NPCs, the game is fricking amazing. So I suspect give or take a few years, FO4 would go the same way.

+1

That game have other things to make you forget about eating or drinking XD, like multiple ways of resolving quests. Also with actual gaming software you can do it without impacting gaming performance, and lots of other things to. If you choose to not do do so and focus on action, not in complex story or added realism it makes the game lazy casual and souless. Fun, but utterly lacking of depth. And this is what we are discussing here (at least me).

Every time someone uses the anology of an ocean and depth regarding a Bethesda game should be made into a drinking game...

...on the other hand that might just kill off the entire fanbase due to alcohol-poisoning...

Yeah, It can be fun ( I am enjoying it) and have lots of features YOU like. But it not makes the game more depth, or complex, or consistent, or even interesting or inspirational at least in my definition.

And yes, the game is good but deep as puddle in the implementation of a postapocaliptic world feature and in lazy storytelling.

Just a heads up - i think cannon is now that power armour doesnt need training, its literally a mechanised suit not some wearable steel plates.

I mean.. Where the heck would raiders get training for that PA.. or the atomcats.. Or your companions.. Or a pre war lawyer..

Fine by me- I really don't have an issue with it. I was just trying to present a plausible explanation for PsicoVic. Canon be damned!

Of course it's an illusion. Video games are an illusion. The goal is to convince us that the illusion is real.

Water did, yes.