I like the way fallout 3 did it where you get experience for successfully using skills but it was still just general experience.

in oblivion gaining a level didn't feel like much of an accomplishment. you got points to add to base statistics but you were still going back to grind out those levels in athletics that you needed or in restoration. it feels like an excess of game play for what i was trying to accomplish.

To me ugrading your skills at the level up makes the level up a bit more meaningful. In oblivion what level i was didn't seem to matter as much as how high my marksman or security skill was. I guess i like the instant gratification of a level that gives me a substantial boost to my abilities than a level that is merely the culmination of things i am supposed to be doing anyway.

Oblivion's level system was easily abused if you were a patient person. you could set skills that you really wanted as minor skills that don't go towards leveling. Then grind out those abilities to the nth degree and have amazing abilities at really low levels. Fallout's leveling system helps keep things more balanced throughout the game (speaking purely of the leveling system not of all the other factors that go into improving skills)

Someone out in mod land came out with an XP mod for Oblivion.. I have to say I enjoyed the game more with xp. I like choosing what to put my points into. Most likely I'm putting points into skills I use anyway.

They shouldn't mess with a system that works.
Oblivion had it's own kind of system.
Fallout has different one.

I do not like the idea of "the more you do it the better you get".
+ it would make INT pretty useless.

I like oblivions system better,no ,its not perfect,but more true to life in a sense.
You get better at what you do by repeating what you do...you use a blade your blade skill goes up etc.
Like i said its not perfect,but works better & makes more sense in my view
Maybe you could have this as a poll....just a thought.

Both leveling systems are abstractions. Neither is realistic. Its simply a matter of which belongs where.

I dislike the TES system as it is much more limiting. I often found myself leveling unintentionally due to skills im not remotely interested in getting better, thus effectively wasting the bonuses i would have got on level up, had only my chosen skills increased.

Fallouts leveling system provides you with freedom, You can put the points into whatever you feel you need. However you have been intending for your character to progress, it is possible to do so. Personally i only put points into my main skills anyway, which are generally the ones i have been using most. Thus, i get a learning by doing system without the problems of TES' systems haunting me and ruining my character progression.

One of the design goals on Fallout 3 was that most of your XP would come from quest completion rather than grinding (of any skill). Granted, a lot of the stated design goals (like choice and consequences, not being able to be a jack of all trades, etc.) weren't made good on, perhaps Obsidian will (since they've made good on most of the others).

I couldnt stand Oblivions leveling system.

1. Unless you planned out a high effeciency build and stuck to it completely the game got harder as you levelled up.
2. Quest rewards were mostly level based meaning you had to delay some quests until you were a high level (or get some out of the way early) to get any kind of useful reward.
3. If you picked certain things as your primary skills then you had to do ridiculous things to level up like running around bunny hopping or stand around talking to someone for hours on end.
4. After a while the only real thing you gain from leveling is a small increase to health at the cost of harder opponents.
5. After certain levels some enemies disappeared from the game entirely.

What you say in the 3rd sentence...they are not ridiculous things,if you leap on to rocks etc,your acrobatics gets better,if you run or walk more your athletics got better,& if you talk to different people all the time you get better at communicating etc,it makes perfect sense...so you've shot yourself in the foot on that view in my opinion.
Like i said it is'nt perfect &could be improved,but either way its still better than fallouts system any day of the week.
Just my view


In fallout everyones character run the same speed,depending on what weight you had etc...so if you run or walked everywhere instead of fast travelling,why should you not be rewarded with faster speed or better jumping etc.
Just like repair & using guns,the more you use guns or repair something ,the better you become. I just think its a way better way to do things.
Another way maybe to improve oblivions way,maybe to to level cap how far you can take minor skills ( not take them to 100 maybe ).
But like i said oblivions way,is way better in my view.

Exactly as I've stated there is no need to fix what is not broken, I think the system Fallout has in place is perfect for Fallout. :tops:

I dont mind your opinion,thats what forums are for,but how would oblivions way make intelligence useless?
Intelligence could contribute to conversation,using computers & many other things...the more you read ,the more you use computers would help intelligence.
Just my view.
Sorry quoted the wrong bit,i was meant to quote Gabriel77dans quote,sorry...dont know how to change it.

I think my biggest pet peeve is just not wanting to have TES:Fallout, Fallout is so wonderful as is I really just despised the Oblivion leveling altogether if they were going to ever implement something that drastic/moronic they should at least have the common courtesy to make it an optional thing that you could turn off in the menu.

Ahhh but it would. Conversation would be governed by speech, hacking would be governed by science. INT which produced more skill points would be useless.

The oblivion system does technically make since, but I prefer to be able to shape my character the way I see fit. Not the way circumstances have dictated me to act. Exp: If I have to hack 10 computers to get into the core of some facility I don't want to (in effect) put all my skill points on hacking if I don't want to.

Nah intelligence would still be a pretty useless stat.
And one main reason for me not wanting Oblivion's system is because: they changed it from turnbased and isometric to first person realtime, they changed skills from 200/300 to 100, they changed SPECIAL, they changed creatures and the culture of fallout etc.
They shouldn't change to much about it, if they do, it will stop being fallout.
It's already treading a fine line, changing the skill system will make fallout Oblivion with guns.

Besides, Oblivions system was crap anyway.
Sure it made more sense than fallout's but having to create a spell for life detect +3sec and just spamming it until it actually raised a freaking level was not fun.
It was broke and very tedious.

Each to their own i suppose,but i still prefer oblivions way.
Its not perfect,but i think its better.
The only thing that bugged my slighly was minor skills going to 100,maybe we can have 10 major skills instead of 7,but have a cap on minor skills so we can't get to 100 for everything.
I just like oblivions way of what you do ,you get better at,just makes sense.
I'm not saying fallouts way is crap...its ok,but i would prefer the other way,thats all.

How is it balanced!?!?!?
In FO3, I was lvl 30 as a near GOD character, most of my skills were 100, with only 160 Hrs of play!!
In Oblivion however, after 265 hrs of play, I was a lvl 21 with a mostly fighter character with some magic.

What I am saying is it is VERY easy in Fallout to become a jack of all trades. In the Elder Scrolls, it actually takes time to level up... a foreign concept, I know.

Nonononononono what you mean is that it's very easy in Broke Steel to become jack of all trades.
It's not that easy without broken steel (unless you consort the wikia or have played for 2 or 3 playthroughs and even then you have to work for it.) and it's not easy in the other games.

No god builds in NV. Skill points are going to lowered and you wont get a perk every lvl. So that complaint only applies to F3 which this is not. We are talking about NV and using F3 as a reference point when the two games are going to be quite a bit different.

Ahhh, my bad then.

But, I will have to see. Yes, Broken Steel made the game unbalanced, I can see that.. but, I still think TES's level system is the best.

No, not the "world leveling" thing. OP's just talking about the "use skills to improve them" part. Character leveling, not world leveling.
(I've actually never played Obliv with the stock world leveling. By the time I finished Morrowind and picked up Obliv, I'd heard so much about how much the world scaling svcked that from my first play, I've always used a world scaling mod.)

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That said.... yeah, the Obliv system was interesting. But, as people have mentioned, it had it's flaws. The part where you had to keep a checklist of your skills and make sure you leveled the right ones (so you could get good stat bonuses) was only a problem because of the world leveling - if you got bad bonuses, those Raiders With Power Armor (Bandits in full Daedric) would crush you. Get rid of the world scaling system, and it's not as big an issue.

The balance was off, though, on some skills. When it took 30-60 minutes of casting your "I'm Training Restoration" spell to gain one skill point, or running the entire length of the world several times to get a point of Athletics..... yeah, high level skills were a pain.

Some system in between would probably be more interesting - gain levels by XP (and get stats), but level skills by training and use, maybe.

(Some pen and paper RPGs use a "gain skill by using them" system, but since you have a GM, it's not as broken as original Obliv.)



.... Interestingly enough, I'm playing Oblivion right now with the "Oblivion XP" mod. It's interesting, but it also has ways it can be gamed - like I've gained a bunch of levels just running around finding map markers and Nirnroots. Some interesting bits, though - it really encourages you to actually sleep regularly, since it gives you "rested XP bonus"... and without that bonus, gaining levels can be really slow. Also, since you spend points every time you level and your non-focused skills are expensive to get, you think more about getting the right Training from NPCs.

@Gabriel77dan...yes i can see some of your points,oblivions way was'nt perfect,niether is fallouts.
But i'm afraid alot of people call fallout ,oblivion with guns anyway...whether we like it or not.Maybe the devs changed the leveling system to avoid that,but it did'nt work that way.
If both systems were to improve,oblivions would still be the way to go.
It felt harder to level in oblivion than it did in fallout,especially if you played oblivion as intended & not leave your character sneaking & then go away for a while ,then come back to high level sneaking. If you play oblivion as its intended it works well ( not perfect ) but well. It was easier to become a god sooner in fallout in my view.
I still like fallout the way it is...& i dont expect everyone to agree with me either...thats whats good about forums...each & everyone of us can see things from a different angle.
In some cases peoples opinions can change your original opinion,because they saw it a different or better way,that convinced you etc..& i love it,it makes things fun & interesting

Well I'm a fallout 2 fan-girl so my opinion on skill system will never change.
Oh well, just to wait and see what they're going to do with Fallout 4.
(New Vegas is already done, they won't be adding anything from this point on)
((Well except for DLC's maybe))

Yes fallout NV will be great either way
Hope you enjoy it ...i know i will

I think personally this is Oblivion in mind mostly, that modern rpg's need to lose some of the paper systems leveling.
I think oblivions skill use to level is a good idea, but when it involves use X amount to level skill + level Y amount to level up level 1 -2 -3.
Then thats just adding a whole heap of extra actions not needed.

I see a system where your skills are chosen at start based on how important they are to your role.
In which they do not level, but still get used X amount of times you gain a level ( health, damage, stat boost, magic in TeS ).
As this truely makes a role centered rpg, not one that just uses p&p ideas with no for the lack of better term dungeon master to taylor to personal tastes.

This how ever is just my view on what I would like, and FO's xp is quite frankly tried and true, from many rpgs ( baldurs gate, FO series... so on ).

So you can only give a counter argument to 1/5 of my points, what does that say about which is the better system? Oblivions system is too flawed to be better than Fallout 3s. Standing around in a city spamming spells over and over = leveling. Hitting auto run and going AFK = leveling. Selling a massive stack of items one by one = leveling. Jumping over and over = leveling.

One of the biggest problems with Oblivions method is that sooner or later you are the master of everything regardless of what you initially chose to be good at.

Yes there are weaknesses to it like i said before,thats why i said not to allow us to get to 100 with minor skills etc.
But whether your spamming spells etc ,your still using that skill & getting better at it,Yes they could make a little tougher or make it better,but the actual concept of it makes sense...just needs to be worked on.Also i know what you mean about leaving auto-run on etc,but if you play it as intended without doing that,it works well,but they would have to find away around it...but i still think oblivions way is better & has more potential than fallouts even if both were improved.
I'm just saying what i'd prefer...but i'm not saying fallouts is crap either,just not as good....but thats my view...not everyone is going to agree with me