Hey guys, just leaving this video here. The maker has some good points and I think it's worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqDFuzIQ4q4

Here's a comment on the video that I thought was poignant:

Man, comparing this "When Freedom Calls" quest here in this video to the quest "Ghost Town Gunfight" in Fallout New Vegas, it's severely disappointing. Both quests have a similar premise: help defend a group of people/town from raiders/powder gangers.

In Fallout 4, the quest is completely linear, you just follow a straight line, kill all of the raiders, talk to the NPCs who apparently can't look after themselves, hack a terminal, get the core for the power armour, get into power armour, kill more raiders, kill a deathclaw, then talk to the NPCs again and then that's it. It's structured like an FPS rather than an RPG, which is really disappointing.

Compared to the quest in FNV, there are so many ways you can go about the quest, in classic Fallout style. You can convince the townsfolk to help fight them off, some requiring skill checks to help give you an edge in the fight, and then you fight the powder gangers. Then and there once they attack.

Or, you could kill their leader when you first see him in the saloon, making the fight a little easier, or of course you can go over to where the gang is hanging out and eliminate them in any manner you wish, guns blazing or stealthy. Hell, with the intimidation perk, you can even scare them off, hilariously!

And that's not all. You can even join the powder gangers with attacking the town if you want, you aren't forced to kill them, and you aren't forced to be the goody good guy! There are so many more choices in the first major quest in FNV compared to Fo4's first major quests, and that's really disappointing to see right off the bat.

Is slaughtering the railroad once they let me in their HQ considered evil? Killing any and all railroad agents I find in the wastes? I plan on playing against the BoS and supporting the Institute and slavery of all toasters.

I totally agree, Unfortunately FONV was not a Bethesda game and so the story structure was very different. Obsidian put a lot more effort into creating quests with multiple paths to take. It would have been nice if that inspired Bethesda to go more in that direction but that isn't the case.

Perhaps a better (more fair?) comparison would be FO4 vs FO3, since they are both Bethesda games. FO3 even had more options you could take. Megaton, Moira, Tenpenny Tower, all come to mind as quest lines with multiple paths and outcomes. And pretty early game.

Sooo... not much has changed from 3?

I just wanna be evil.

Give it time. Give it time. You do have the option to kill everybody you know.

Me - I would just walk away with the armor and forget about the Minute Men. Actually, no. The mechanic, the leader and the old lady are okay.

You could be a slaver in Fallout 3. The world also reacted to your evil deeds. Not much, mind you, but better than the way it's handled in Fallout 4. Watch the video, it actually explains the differences rather well.

You can the game just doesn't give you any incentive so people just see it as not having the option, go watch a youtuber named robbaz he basically builds a fort then has settlers grow crops for him until they annoy him then he kills and eats them, not something a good person would do.

You can kill pretty much everyone you encounter an pile their bodies up then hack them to mush with a sledgehammer, but the game doesn't tell you to so some people act like its not an option.

Have you tried? I killed Maxson and jumped off the Prydwen with BoS chasing me. I also killed EVERYONE from the Railroad.

Are there in-game storylines tied to it? Are there consequences for it? Are there lines of dialog specifically written catering to the playstyle?

If not, then no.

yeah, the entire game has been toned down it seems but especially so the players ability to be a real sadistic son of a [censored]. obviously trying to make it presentable to the younger types, it's sort of obvious from the entire way the game seems to have been designed just in gameplay as well as tone. really sad.

@the1

You know what, that's a good point mate.

You have no option but to kill everything and everyone i don't see how this is not evil. Right now i don't see how to play as "good"

yeah it's not exactly layered evil though is it. sure you can slaughter everyone but you can't sell people into slavery or torment them with dialog options or persuade them to kill themselves and stuff like this. it's the same with good in the game as well i'll bet, there's very little shades of and alternate good, evil and neutral paths in this game. it's just really shallow and that's the point of this thread.

Ahhh so we're just going to define it ourselves then huh? There is dialogue about my decision later on in the game, Someone brings up someone from the railroad and there's specific dialogue about me killing them. Killing Maxson certainly has consequences, as the BoS now is incredibly hostile to where they chase me with Vertibirds haha. Storylines tied to me killing the railroad? Not sure what you'd mean there. A faction didn't tell me to do it, so I don't think so (assuming this is what you meant)

You can't be evil in this game? Tell this the little ghoul boy I just sold to a slave trader for 350 caps, or the caravan traider I robbed for 50 caps, or those guys I let execute because they thought it would be a good idea to revolt aginst my leadership.

Maybe you should play the game and not complain about stuff you didn't find the first 5 min. in the game

I don't think you watched the video at all. The title may be a bit of a misnomer. The video addresses everything you're saying.

Err, well my point was about not defining it ourselves. We can all say "Oh yeah my character is totally Lawful Evil" but if the game doesn't have an alignment system which includes "Lawful Evil" then you're just playing pretend.

So the only thing that is talked about in the video is the first 2 hours of the game? Makes sense, i guess. By the way i just killed a man i know is a husband and father, and i did it for a chem stash. Isn't that kind of evil?

I admittedly didn't watch the video (no speakers on work computer). But it seems like some are acting like there's no choice in things. I've run into a few quests that led me with an option to turn on the people I was helping or to sabatage a plan. There's definitly choices in the game that can lead to more sinister outcomes. Go find Bobbi No Nose

Like I said, there's certainly consequences and dialogue to your actions. Past that I'm not sure what you want. If "playing pretend" isn't something you do, I'm not entirely sure why you're playing a role playing game.

This might be the first time ever I saw someone say that having shades of gray instead of black&white is shallow XD

Just watch the news and you'll know the world is already full-up with evil. Maybe try being good on purpose?

well it's not because that isn't what i said at all. fallout 4 does NOT have shades of, it is black and white is what i'm saying and much more white than black.

I wondered if anyone would respond like that.