Good point. But mine was more the end of that sentence. We do not know anything about these raiders other than they are raiders, so they have to die. For all we know, they could all be 'settlers' who turned to raiding to get food for their settlements.

Yeah exactly. Maybe we're the psychos messing with THEIR lives =)

1) They attack you on sight.


2) Why don't they farm like a "good" settler would?


Clearly, they resorted to the "dark side" for survival.


So whatever they were is irrelevant at this point.

Maybe they're just looking for their lost kids and kill everything on sight out of desperation....

That was an example. The point was, simply put, not everything we do is necessarily good or evil. we can be good while at the same time being evil.

*sigh* I am evil in Fallout. Thus, this thread is disproven *shrugs*

Where do people get these strange obsessions with declaring extravagantly overblown statements of universality? I blame the Internetz. Mass media and the advert pushers who erroneously trace their origins to journalism don't help.

It's all subjective.


Nothing in Fallout 4 is pure evil, unlike blowing up Megaton in Fallout 3... Now that's pure evil!

Well, the whole concept of "evil" is subjective. However, I think the following would qualify as fitting standard "Western archetypes" of "evil:"

1. Getting to the end of a quest for a follower that they clearly want completed, getting everything out of if that you want, and dismissing them before they get their closure.

2. Encountering a group of mourners at a funeral, pickpockting and/or shooting them all in order to loot their corpses.

3. Killing anyone you can and cannibalizing their corpse!

4. Telling Preston and the Quincy Refugees to jump in a lake and leaving them sitting in the Concord Museum for all time (with console you could even kill them if you like).

5. Getting aboard the Prydwen, receiving the knight rank and then assassinating Maxson and killing every single BoS onboard and at the base below.

6. Ditto for any of the other factions: gain entrance/trust, then kill them all.

7. Robbing/Pickpocketing anyone and everyone who has property.

8. Telling Dogmeat "You are a smelly mutt" and kicking him to the curb.

etc., etc. We could literally list scores if not hundreds of individual acts of "reprehensible behavior" which the game is perfectly willing to allow you to engage in.

So the claim that in Fallout 4 you "CANNOT be evil" is absurd on the same level as Monty Python.

Now, it is true that there are certain archetypically "evil" behaviors one is not able to engage in ingame and moreover that there are lots of "nudges" and "encouragements" if not cajoling and nagging to "do good."

If anything, the removal of "Karma" and the stupid "red-handed" marker for stolen items has done more to facilitate "evil" play than either FONV or FO3.

Well, I think Jane makes it perfectly clear we can indeed be evil. So... muhahahaha!

My char has found many ways to be evil but they mostly involve cannibalism. The "evil" version of the institute speech was lame. "Your meaningless lives will be extinguished... but don't worry".

I think it is perfectly fair to say that "Being 'Evil' is not as accentuated, nor implicitly encouraged" in FO4 as it has been in some past forays into the Fallout universe (most notably FO2 and FO1, but even FO3 and FONV). The lack of "joinable" criminal factions vis a vis, FONV is a disappointment, tis true.

The prevalence of Essential characters makes being a homicidal maniac, if not an evil one, awkward at times . . . but if you bid your time, many (at least _some_) of those "Essential" types do eventually become killable . . .

But that is all a long way from "CANNOT be evil" in the game.

I ate ~30 some odd dead people just to get a frickin' Big Green homicidal psychopathic cannibal guy to like me . . . if that isn't evil I don't know what is . . .

Damn, wish I was single. We are like soul mates. Only thing is, she didn't put any landmines in any of those "cages", put them in the corners and watch them "dance" . . .

I'm tempted to post some screen caps of things I did to Ricca's corpse to "simulate the need for feminine hygiene products" as well as the "low standards of personal hygiene" among the female raider leaders of the game, but I don't want to get banned . . .

Dr. Evil aprroves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA

I literally have no idea what you are talking about. Could you explain what you're talking about?

Very "mild" spoiler, but if you have been to the Dugout Inn, you just overlooked something

I sold a slave (could sell loads in FO3). The Commonwealth didn't care.

I murdered a farmer's family and took the land. The Commonwealth didn't care.

I threw grenades at kids. Commonwealth didn't care.

I stole plenty of goodies and tried the most negative dialogue options I could see. Did the Commonwealth care? Nope.

If your world doesn't react to you acting how you perceive to be "evil", then what's the point? Arguably the same goes for being "good", but I hear reactions from NPCs for that already. Haven't been run out of towns or had the Gunners/some other nasty faction recruit me for my ruthless ways. So no, you can't be evil and have it make a difference to the world around you short of removing aspects of the world to interact with (NPCs).

And if the raiders are poor, meaning no loot? Then i wasted more money then i earned. It might as well be removed. This is just one of many half-implemented features that does nothing to the game or experiance.

You know what you're doing? It's called constantly moving the goal posts. And it quickly turns into a joke.

* Sigh * This is my biggest gripe with fallout 4. When I first played I kept wondering, where is the slaver nation. When will I be able to become a slaver. Never... Never was the answer. Then I learned about intimidation. And was like. YAAY I can rp it out. Then found the limitations of that.

I loved, LOVED fallout 3 for those reasons. And thought NV was to durn tame. Blow up megaton, join the raider faction etc. And was over joyed to be able to play what is a interesting character in fallout 4. And was just met with a emotional roller coaster instead.

I get why Bethesda made the game the way they did. I do. They wanted to tell a very specific story, and that meant the PC could not be a villain. But that is so dang boring for me.

Bethesda. If you by chance do read this. Please take it to heart. I know I am in a silent majority. But this sorta aspect gives depth. It even makes the dragon slayers feel. " More good" as they took the noble path instead of the vile one...

With that I leave with a quote.

"Its good to be bad! YEA BABY!"

:Edit:

That is not to say that modders will not make great mods just for this. I really hope my favorite mod author. Which made a mod that starts with F and ends with Q. Has some plans. But I can understand if he does not.

Point is it feels like the modding community has to add 100% of this aspect. And that just seems wrong.

Ah, I remember those. It just didn't click with me more than a tiny disappointment and such a minor element.

Yeah, up to this gem, it wasn't that bad.

Not saying it was a bad game. I think it could use a bit of help though. It is constructive criticism. There are others who feel the RP is really bad. And I understand there point. 100%. Heck I have over 600 hrs in game...

This. The game is sorely lacking in join-able anti-hero factions. Meta-gaming criminality is a poor excuse. While I haven't finished the main quest; I really wish there was a way to not only join the Institute, but then capture and replace the Railroad with synths. (Ah Desdemona, now you work for me! You will "free" these synths right into the Underground and expose your whole little operation. Choo Choo [censored]!) I miss the slavers and I don't think anyone could argue that selling Bumble to Eulogy Jones is objectively evil. Nor is blowing up Megaton (because Allister Tenpenny thinks it is an "eyesore") anything but an objectively evil act.

The precedent is there, the opportunity was not capitalized upon.

There is no light without the dark.

Yeahhhh, I think we define "evil" in different ways, lol. Choosing the sarcastic comment is 8 out of 10 conversations IRL for me =)

Selling wedding rings, scrabbing a crib? I would do the same 10 out of 10 times if I woke up 200 years later in the wasteland.

What's missing is your actions being reflected in-game. There's just no consequence, so you can be evil in your head, but not in the game. I know, that's what some people call "role-playing", but it's kinda pointless when no one hears you scream. If you play table top, your DM and your co-players will reflect on your role-playing, but your computer doesn't really care.

I'm disappointed that keeping the wedding ring on and romancing nobody didn't yield an achievement upon completing the main quest. In fact as far as I can tell it affects nothing. Boo!

Was this directed at me? If so, i'm not sure how i'm moving the goal posts