Falmer in Skyrim? : V

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:48 am

The Falmer or Snow Elves were the original inhabitants of Skyrim before the Nords defeated and displaced them centuries ago. Though the Falmer have seemingly faded from existence many Nords native to Skyrim have superstitious beliefs that the Falmer are still alive. Could they be right? Has a secret cache of Falmer been hiding out in Skyrim waiting to take revenge? Could the Civil war and the return of the Dragons be the perfect oportunity to take power? Discuss.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:45 am

There are no actual records of Falmer society or real evidence other than stories. I'd like them to have been real, but they're going to have to be hard to find out about. I think there should be maybe 2-3 Falmer ruins in Skyrim, all really hard to get to.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:12 am

There may be Rieklings and Ice Warriors present in Skyrim, but I think that's as close to Falmer as we get - asumming that Falmer is even a real race and not merely myth in the minds of Nords.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:34 am

I would have to disagree with the notion that the Falmer are a myth. It is true that there are many myths and legends in the Elder Scrolls series but I don't think anyone is capable of fabricating a culturally defining war.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:33 am

I would have to disagree with the notion that the Falmer are a myth. It is true that there are many myths and legends in the Elder Scrolls series but I don't think anyone is capable of fabricating a culturally defining war.

And being a myth does not preclude actuality in TES. It's the very literal embodiment of mythopoeic thought.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:54 am

I would have to disagree with the notion that the Falmer are a myth. It is true that there are many myths and legends in the Elder Scrolls series but I don't think anyone is capable of fabricating a culturally defining war.

I highly doubt that Thor was a real person who controlled the weather and threw a lightning hammer at the several-thousand-mile-long Jormungand, and yet it rather heavily defined the Norse culture. Stories don't have to be true in order to have a real effect, the only requirement is that people believe in it. Same with Jesus and Muhammed, or Atlantis for that matter.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:00 am

Well I love a good mystery and there more secrets to uncover in Skyrim the better. So the Falmer and all other mythical/real beings are more than welcome to move right on into my Skyrim experience.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:35 am

I highly doubt that Thor was a real person who controlled the weather and threw a lightning hammer at the several-thousand-mile-long Jormungand, and yet it rather heavily defined the Norse culture. Stories don't have to be true in order to have a real effect, the only requirement is that people believe in it. Same with Jesus and Muhammed, or Atlantis for that matter.

It is completely wrong to invoke that real-world anology.
They myths of TES are true and literal. Morihaus was a literally a winged bull, Lorkhan's heart was physically cast out of his chest and into Red Mountain, etc.
If the Falmer exist mythically, they DO exist in some sense. It's just a matter of degree.

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:23 pm

It is completely wrong to invoke that real-world anology.
They myths of TES are true and literal. Morihaus was a literally a winged bull, Lorkhan's heart was physically cast out of his chest and into Red Mountain, etc.
If the Falmer exist mythically, they DO exist in some sense. It's just a matter of degree.

Why is it entirely impossible for ANYTHING to be jsut made up in TES?

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:27 am

Why is it entirely impossible for ANYTHING to be jsut made up in TES?

It's not at all impossible, which is why I said "a matter of degree", but TES is a mythopoeic world and not many people grasp the implications of that.

There are things in TES that are just simple fictional stories. But a myth is not just a story.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:51 am

It's not at all impossible, which is why I said "a matter of degree", but TES is a mythopoeic world and not many people grasp the implications of that.

There are things in TES that are just simple fictional stories. But a myth is not just a story.

Apparently, that word means "the thought process of making a myth". I don't see what implications a mythopoeic world has.

And a myth is just a story that some people believe. If there's no evidence for it, what's to say it's not fiction? Why is the TES world any different?

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:20 pm

Apparently, that word means "the thought process of making a myth". I don't see what implications a mythopoeic world has.

And a myth is just a story that some people believe. If there's no evidence for it, what's to say it's not fiction? Why is the TES world any different?

Because that's a fundamental principle of the world of TES.
It means that the myths, the beliefs of the people and the events which shape those beliefs, literally shape the world. It's what allows, for example, the existence of the contradictory godheads of Akatosh and Alduin.
A myth is not just a story that some people believe. Beliefs define and form the actual world of Mundus.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:36 am

I highly doubt that Thor was a real person who controlled the weather and threw a lightning hammer at the several-thousand-mile-long Jormungand, and yet it rather heavily defined the Norse culture. Stories don't have to be true in order to have a real effect, the only requirement is that people believe in it. Same with Jesus and Muhammed, or Atlantis for that matter.

We are not talking about Gods or creation myths, we are discussing an entire race of people and their conflict with another race. A conflict that had measurable repercussions for an entire continent.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:24 am

Because that's a fundamental principle of the world of TES.
It means that the myths, the beliefs of the people and the events which shape those beliefs, literally shape the world. It's what allows, for example, the existence of the contradictory godheads of Akatosh and Alduin.
A myth is not just a story that some people believe. Beliefs define and form the actual world of Mundus.

So people can make up a story about snow elves existing, tell it to their friends and family, and have it spread, and then history will be changed and there will have been a race of Elves existing that never existed before?

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:27 am

We are not talking about Gods or creation myths, we are discussing an entire race of people and their conflict with another race. A conflict that had measurable repercussions for an entire continent.

Ironically, if we WERE talking about gods or creation, we could say with certainty that it was literal truth.

To Dragonbone (because I can't figure out multiquote): Of course that could happen, as I've allowed for above. My point is just that being mythic does preclude veracity, and that stories and myths are distinct.
Whether the Falmer are a myth or a story, and whether that myth is grounded in literal truth or not, is up for debate.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:49 am

Because that's a fundamental principle of the world of TES.
It means that the myths, the beliefs of the people and the events which shape those beliefs, literally shape the world. It's what allows, for example, the existence of the contradictory godheads of Akatosh and Alduin.
A myth is not just a story that some people believe. Beliefs define and form the actual world of Mundus.

This isn't Planescape...

Yeah, not all myths are true. Some of them are yes, but not all of them. Like I would argue that Lorkhan's heart is not really his heart... mainly because it would be too small for him.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:54 am

There are things in TES that are just simple fictional stories. But a myth is not just a story.

How exactly does "not just a story" equate to "a real event"? Myth is myth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:44 pm

This isn't Planescape...

Yeah, not all myths are true. Some of them are yes, but not all of them. Like I would argue that Lorkhan's heart is not really his heart... mainly because it would be too small for him.

MK has encouraged direct interpretations of myths and metaphysics where possible, and it's fairly certain that Lorkhan's heart is indeed the actual heart of the god responsible for the creation of Mundus.

(Funny you should mention Planescape. I've been up all night playing PsT.)

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:13 am

How exactly does "not just a story" equate to "a real event"? Myth is myth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology

A story is made and told for entertainment (loosely speaking). A myth is a thing with much more gravitas, possessing symbolic, ritual, or mystical importance.
"not just a story" does NOT equate to "a real event", but in TES a myth can be and often is a real event.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:18 am

To Dragonbone (because I can't figure out multiquote): Of course that could happen, as I've allowed for above. My point is just that being mythic does preclude veracity, and that stories and myths are distinct.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Do you have a source for this? It sounds self contradictory.

What if there was a race (that never saw Altmer) that believed Altmer were purple, and another that believed they were red, and the Altmer still knew they were gold, and these 3 races met up at once? How would it work?

Whether the Falmer are a myth or a story, and whether that myth is grounded in literal truth or not, is up for debate.

What?? You just said a myth in the TES universe IS ALWAYS TRUE. Now you're saying it's debateable whether it's true or not? What's going on? And once again, a myth is jsut a story some people believe, so if it is a myth that is not grounded in truth then it is just a fictional story like I said.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:39 am

We are not talking about Gods or creation myths, we are discussing an entire race of people and their conflict with another race.

The content of a myth is irrelevant. If it is defined as myth, it's myth. It can be about anything whatsoever.

A conflict that had measurable repercussions for an entire continent.

Moses and the Red Sea had some pretty measurable repercussions for the middle east continent too, but it doesn't remove the fact that it's been proven to be pure fiction. There never was a Moses who led a people through the continent. If there was, we would've found some evidence of it. There are none.

I think you underestimate the power of lore and faith.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:42 am

I seem to remember an Altmer scholar who was researching the history of the Falmer in Soltheim... as I recall the Nerevarine provided said scholar with actual Falmer artifacts that verified that such a group of elves did in fact exist at one point rendering this whole (derailing and borderline banned topic) discussion moot.

On Topic: I would love to find a small nest of well hidden Falmer, but it has been so long since they have had any interaction with the world that they would probably be quite hostile to everyone (assuming you could find them).

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:10 pm

A story is made and told for entertainment (loosely speaking). A myth is a thing with much more gravitas, possessing symbolic, ritual, or mystical importance.
"not just a story" does NOT equate to "a real event", but in TES a myth can be and often is a real event.

A story is just a recounting of events.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story
A myth is always a story, and a false myth is a fictional story.

» Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:19 am

I seem to remember an Altmer scholar who was researching the history of the Falmer in Soltheim... as I recall the Nerevarine provided said scholar with actual Falmer artifacts that verified that such a group of elves did in fact exist at one point rendering this whole (derailing and borderline banned topic) discussion moot.

How do you know that the artifacts are truly Falmeri? Because the Nerevarine said so? :-P

» Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 pm

On Topic: I would love to find a small nest of well hidden Falmer, but it has been so long since they have had any interaction with the world that they would probably be quite hostile to everyone (assuming you could find them).

Perhaps since they've been around so long, Dovahkiin needs their help to take down the dragons since only they know the secrets of dragon shouts