Very much agreed with you. Seeing the old 8 attributes simplified down to 3 (or rather, just your what I like to call survivability stats like Health, Magicka, and Stamina) very much worries me, as I feel it takes a bit away from the RP part of the RPG that Skyrim is. I'll miss leveling up a certain attribute to a certain degree to better represent what I want my character to be. No more will I be able to level up Intelligence not because I wanted to raise my magicka, but because I wanted my character to be intelligent. And I wanted something, such as an attribute, to signify that.

Though yeah, it probably won't stop me from buying the game and giving the new system a try. And hell, if I end up disliking it, chances are someone else will as well and will make a mod to restore the old attributes system, so I'll just get that.

Ah yes. Mods. If there's anything I want to restore, I'll mod it myself. Gotta love Bethesda's modding support.

Yeh.
Personally, I have changed over to referring to Skyrim as an Action-Adventure instead of an RPG - which is not meant in any way derogative, I'm very fond of AAs as well. But I feel that in Skyrim, the game's overall focus will be on combat and questing/interaction with the environment, even more so than in previous games. There are still important role playing elements, and the differentiation between genres is difficult and sometimes even ridiculous anyway. But it seems to me that the actions associated with building your character have been moved further into the background, and are something you do just once in a while when you level up. According to Todd, you can "play the game without looking into the skill menu once".

There are only so many changes you can take before you don't like something anymore. But I never thought Skyrim will cross my line.

i dont really mind I liked attributes they worked reasonably well, Im sure ill probably end up liking the new system, im intersted to see what beth can do with it.

I know a few people who refer to it as an Action-Adventure game now, which may be true. Like I said before, we'll have to wait and see if it turns out to be more of an AA then an RPG.

Bethesda isn't dumb. They're just trying to get rid off unnecessary things and trying to make things make more sense. A less complex system isn't always something bad. I like attributes, but I think what they have done is good. Attributes was a flawed system imo.

Can't definitely say if the change is good or bad though. I'll have to wait until I play Skyrim. But I do have confidence in Bethesda and seeing that they make RPGs better than any other company in the whole world, I think they're doing the right thing.

Hey, let's all classify the game before we play it!

Why do you need a number in a list somewhere to tell you your character is strong? Raising strength to 100 didn't make your character more muscular, the additional damage done was pretty insignificant, there aren't any "feats of strength" type challenges in the game. Not having a number there actually gives you more control over your character's strength from a RP perspective and no change from a gameplay perspective.

Bethesda make brilliant RPG's. And this change may very well be good. Look at Fallout 3, for example. They changed it so much from FO2, but it's a great game.



Nothing wrong with an opinion of what the genre is based on screenshots and media that's been released.

This is a good point.
And while I very much enjoy action/adventure games and while what Ive seen of Skyrim would mean its a very huge, fantastic, and complicated action/adventure, it would mean that the video game RPG is now finally dead and buried.
And I will miss them.

In the end, no matter how many stock lines about 'redundancy' one copy/ pastes into every debate about this, there is only so much one can cut before it isnt what it was anymore.

Yea, all those screens released really give us a good idea how deep the rpg mechanics are. What was I thinking? My apologies.

At any rate, we'll have to wait and see. That's all we can do right now, to be honest.

I label it as a Action-Adventure RPG. :mohawk:

@Dragonborn1
Apology accepted =P

Actually I'm quite looking forward to the RP opportunities the loss of attributes open up. No longer is my character shackled to being defined by a set of random numbers on my screen. I can make my character whatever I want him to be. Looking great so far. :celebration:

I will wait until release thats dispel my doubts, before thats I will share my opinion with http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/user/359702-panurgy/


Until new system will not provided the same provabilities as improved Attribute system, I will not change my opinion.

I speculate because you reached 4 stars in 2 months based on posts like the one above, and "this" and "Todd Says" and basically repeating things you feel you've the right to crap on people now, Ah mmk.



Anyway H/M/S are not attributes. When your Speed reaches 0 you do not die directly because of it, when your personality, is drained, you do not lose your life.

H/M/S are no different from all the previous games and other games where your health reaches 0 you die, when your magicka reaches 0 you can't cast spells, and when your Stamina reaches 0 I sepculate you can't do alot of things.

Attributes aren't damaged by Use, or swords, like H/M/S are how is Health personified in Strenght? when my health reaches half I suddenly can't hit hard or resist damage? how does me having alot of Magicka make me intelligent? I could be a Dumb brute brimming with pure Power...I mean I am the Dragon born, does that make me smart? what if Im just surging with power?

tired of people regurgitating the same nonsense over and over, you've nothing to contribute then just move on and let those with actually something reasonable to Say FOR and AGAINST certain descisions says so. ignore the thread....


Theres nothing "shackling" about Attributes I've seen people say you Can RP without them why do you need numbers to define who you are? and yet the same people are saying the "numbers" restricted them and inhibited their ability to RP.

I say Wut?

Those three wouldn't be Health, Magicka, or Stamina; those existed along-side the 8 attributes. Now, they're simply reducing those attributes to 3, so we'll probably see a list like, Health, Magicka, Stamina, Strength, Agility, Willpower.

I see your point. Now our characters can be defined by their actions, and what they do. I prefer the old attribute system, though, but there are new RP possibilities.

It is a good thing to be critical of. I'm glad that Health, Magicka, and Stamina are in but I do have some concerns gameplay wise as to how this will end up. Attributes weren't good in Oblivion and Morrowind as you had to use skills that you would never use in order to get a +5. I think what they could've done with Attributes besides simplifiying them is have it be 20-50 instead of 30-100 and you get +5 attribute points every 5 levels. Also have the attributes do simplier things then just Weapon Damage for strength. This is what I would've done with Attributes if they were in. 20 attribute is the low end that's where Bretons would go with Strength, Redguards with INT, etc. 25 is the middle ground and 30 is reserved for characters that are good in a particular attribute like Bretons with Intelligence, Nords with Strength, etc. I may have to make a topic later on this.

Strength- Affects the amount of weight that you have. 1 point of strength equals 10 weight.

Intelligence- Affects the amount of Magicka and lowers the amount that a spell costs. Since we already have the Magicka attribute the amount for intelligence would be reduced to 2 per INT. Also for every point of INT your spell cost would be lowered by 2 points. No spell cost can go below 5 points.

Willpower- Affects Magicka Regeneration. For every 5 point of Willpower your magicka would regenerate 1 magicka point faster. Stamina would deal with Stamina Regeneration.

Endurance- Determines how much Health you will get per level outside of choosing the Health Attribute. For every 5 points of Endurance you get an increase of 2 points more of health per level.

Speed- Determines how fast you are. For every 10 points of speed your running speed is increased by 10 %

Agility- Deterimines staggering rate. For every 10 points of Agility your stagger rate is decreased by 10 %.

Personality- Determines how NPC's view you. For every 10 points of Personality your despostion with NPC's goes up 10 points from a base starting point of 30.

Luck- Determines how lucky you are and how much bonuses skill get at the beginning. For every 10 points of luck all your skills go up 1 point. Higher luck also means a higher chance at getting rare items. For every 10 points of luck the rate that an item appears whether it's a random enchanted Armor or gold goes up 10%.

This would be an example of a characters starting attributes. You can also select one attribute at the beginning that you want to put +5 in.

Breton (I'll deal with differences in gender later)
Strength 20
Intelligence 30
Willpower 30
Endurance 20 (+5)
Speed 25
Agility 20
Personality 25
Luck 25 (Will always be 25 at the start regardless of what race you are, like in Oblivion when luck always started out at 50).

I,myself, is in favor of the new system. Despite that fact, I can see what the other guys are saying. I understand that the people against taking out attributes are thinking that they could have have changed how they worked instead of just taking them out. That is one thing they could have done it, but because you wanted them to do it that way doesn't mean that every other ways is bad. This is their solution to making the game better and all we can do is wait to see if they did a good job.

Yes, they take out a layer of complexity but it is also possible that they put in a alternative layer of complexity in another way. This is my opinion on it so far

Speculate but please don't label things until it has been played :sadvaultboy:

I agree with you. They might make the game better with this, they might not, and all we can do is wait. As all we have right now for a basis is media that's been released, though gameplay itself is the best basis.

Todd pretty much confirmed that the only attributes you'll be raising at level up are just Health, Magicka, and Stamina. Or he implied that's the case by saying this.

Aren't perks purely beneficiary? I don't recall perks being a bad thing or even having tradoffs...your getting them as a reward for hardwork in skills....so whats handling the weaknesses......-other- than Magicka......

Four months actually. And I've stated several times in the 25+ threads, literally 25+ threads, why i'm glad attributes are gone. Also, I post from my touch screen phone, so I tend to keep my posts short for that reason more so than anything else.

You done flaming me?

That is true but that is the flaw with Oblivion's leveling is that you choose an attribute every level. If it was every 5 levels it wouldn't be as bad. Kinda similar to how New Vegas allows you to select a perk every two levels which will allow more diverse characters instead of every level like Fallout 3 did and have a little Diversity but pretty much have the core main skills.