Perks are purely beneficiary. Traits give you a good thing AND a bad thing.



Don't make the thread a warzone, or off-topic please.

Attributes are purely beneficiary too (except for that pesky Daedra lord quest in Oblivion) so I don't see what your point is.

Fallout 3 also didn't have 280 perks to help with diversity either. Hopefully with the amount of perks that they have will really help with how diverse your character is

I don't remember attributes having any real weaknesses. I remember them just benefiting you, not really giving you any downing effects

That's actually not a bad idea, and it's sort of an idea I had in the back of my mind for awhile.

I think even a level cap in the game would help make attributes seem more important, as it would actually limit how much you could raise your attributes in general, but then we'd have a bunch of threads along the lines of "A LEVEL CAP IN MAH ELDAH SCROLLZ!?!? BLASPHEMY!!!"

My only criticism is LACK OF MAGIC WEAPONS

Reminds me how enchanting was removed as a skill from Oblivion.

Not my fault, i was attacked, so why are you blaming me? I think the new system is going to allow for way more diversity with the 250+ perks. Sure, putting points into attributes is fun for a while, but it becomes very redundant. It's what we call "natural evolution".

Well, this is a two-way street. People say that attributes are important in RPG because they think it defines a character and that's what makes it unique. This is indeed true. However, the method that the devs are taking are going to yield the same result due to the high number of perks in the game. So instead of letting attributes define the player, the perks are going to have the same effect.

Sry, it's hard to explain. But i think this new system works just as well.

Change is only good when it makes things better. Whether it'll make Skyrim better or not, we'll have to see. And putting points into attributes is sort of what RPG's do as well, to be honest.

I don't know why you always bring this up, even when referring to redundancy?
Nature is full of redundancies, and is anything but efficient. :shrug:

lol, I love how refer back to natural evolution B)


@Faulgor
People don't really want efficiency, they want more organic gameplay

A Level cap won't be needed. It would take 50 levels just to raise an Attribute 50 points. Hence why in my post I suggested a 20-50 attribute model instead of the 30-100 from Oblivion.

And by keeping with that very system things become stale. No forward thinking. Just resting on old systems and habits. I want advancement in my games and Beth is at least trying. I commend them.

A Level Cap would really begin to stray from the nature of Elder Scrolls, too.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the new system works, mainly because the whole metagame in Oblivion of managing your skills gains to manage your level gains to manage your attribute gains... really led to focusing alot more on the numbers and mechanics, and less on, you know, actually playing the game.

(Not to say the new system will automatically be awesome. But I'm hoping that it'll be a positive change, and am open to the concept.)

Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post.

If it's done right. I don't need to point out the jump that Dragon Age 2 made from Dragon Age Origins.

Just a question here... hasn't there been enough discussion about attributes soon?

Within 10 days only, we've had these many threads about attributes. I count that 34 threads. Do people know how to use the search function? The discussion is there over and over and over again and again. I'm no moderator, but I think this may be a bit too much. Perhaps an official thread about attributes should be put up like with multiplayer.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183805-attributes-and-perks-number-2/page__p__17564653__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17564653
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183588-attributes-skills-and-wheres-the-roleplaying/page__st__200__p__17564472__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17564472
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1174558-attributes-and-racial-bonuses/page__st__20__p__17563823__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17563823
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183298-clearing-some-misunderstandingsattributes/page__st__200__p__17555961__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17555961
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183255-why-the-hate-for-athletics-acrobatics/page__st__40__p__17551331__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17551331
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183043-an-open-letter-to-bethesda-game-studios/page__st__140__p__17547134__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17547134
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1183085-this-game-is-going-to-be-crap/page__p__17546804__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17546804
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1182899-good-news-every-one/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180966-no-athletics-no-acrobatics-poll-edition/page__st__120__p__17543302__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17543302
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1182744-an-open-letter-to-bethesda-game-studios/page__p__17539302__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17539302
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1182373-no-attributes-sounds-horrible/page__st__200__p__17532262__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17532262
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1182215-only-3-main-attributes-now-okay-im-alright-with-that-but/page__p__17527342__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17527342
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181882-attribute-modding-speculation/page__st__20__p__17525398__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17525398
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181933-the-battle-of-perks-and-attributes-official/page__p__17519771__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17519771
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181527-wonder-why-they-took-out-attributes-iii/page__st__60__p__17510309__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17510309
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181579-gamesas-gutting-attributes/page__st__20__p__17510141__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17510141
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181352-i-increased-my-characters-intelligence-so-he-would-be-more-intelligent/page__st__240__p__17509332__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17509332
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181321-wonder-why-they-took-out-attributes/page__st__200__p__17507849__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17507849
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181391-should-attributes-be-back-or-not-poll/page__p__17504769__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17504769
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181384-attributes-back-or-not/page__p__17504227__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17504227
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180907-no-acrobaticsathletics-i-am-profoundly-saddened/page__st__160__p__17503622__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17503622
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181193-removing-attributes-is-a-mistake-thread-ii/page__st__20__p__17499580__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17499580
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181094-removing-attributes-is-a-mistake/page__st__200__p__17498809__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17498809
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181119-this-is-how-perks-can-compliment-attributes/page__p__17497898__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17497898
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181122-the-only-real-problem-with-the-removal-of-attributes/page__p__17497561__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17497561
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180917-i-didnt-realise-attributes-made-tes/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180930-quit-frothing-at-the-mouth-and-think/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181187-perktributes/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180948-polling-the-forum-on-attribute-absense/page__p__17493622__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17493622
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180954-there-is-an-upside-to-attributes-being-gone/page__p__17493762__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17493762
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180895-is-skyrim-being-simplified-to-much/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180914-todd-howard-why-do-you-troll-me-so-badly/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180807-now-i-am-slightly-depressed/page__hl__attributes
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1180875-now-i-am-slightly-depressed-thread-number-2/page__p__17491593__hl__attributes__fromsearch__1#entry17491593

@hlvr
That is why I wanted my thread to become the official thread but the mods didn't think it was such a good idea





I agree, just because it is tradition doesn't mean that it has to stop there. Where would we be if we didn't break through tradition?

True. I guess I have Fallout on the mind a little too much. :facepalm:

Though a level cap could work if say, the level cap was very high.

Either way, you get what I'm saying.

Like I said, change is only good when it makes things better. Bethesda manages to make Skyrim better with this, I'll happily accept the system.

Willpower: Magica
Intelligence: Magica
Endurance: Health
Strenght: Health/stamina?
Speed: Stamina
Personality: Hmm???
Agility: Stamina
Luck: Whaaaaa...?

So my point is that they didnt take them out they simply made them simpler, why would you raise Intelligence when you can directly raise magica?
I think its good, no need to efficent leveling or that [censored].

WELL DONE BETHESDA!!!!!!1ONEONE!ELEVEN!!1

There's still plenty we don't know about the system still, like the full skill list and racial bonuses.

This "I can't roleplay without attributes" is still elude me. Why do you need a number to remind you about some characteristics of your character?

It could hinder even hinder it, for example because intelligence is mainly a magic attribute, playing an intelligent non-magic warrior wasn't really a good idea. To help your RP you could add a little bit of intelligence to your character after every level up, but you would lose some valuable points you could've spent on more important things for a warrior like strength or endurance. And why would you raise the intelligence anyway? The game doesn't care about your RP, points spent on intelligence will be wasted if you won't use magic, or any related skills, which in a Warrior's case is quite possible.

So without attributes why shouldn't Skyrim be called an RPG? What attributes do anyway? They make the characters different from each other. The same thing can be done with skills and perks. You could say that there won't be as many combinations as there would be with attributes, but I don't think that's true. Oblivion had attributes, different characters will still feel similar just with different attributes.
So if Skyrim's an "action-adventure game" then I think all TES games were "action-adventure games" ever since Arena.

And on the OP's point: what's the difference between achieving 100 strength and achieving 100 weapon skill and getting all the perks in it?

It was actually pretty fun conversation in this thread until certain people came in <_<