A transportation system doesn't just serve as a method of getting around for the PC. It adds to world building and atmosphere in the same way that barrels, crates, flags, cats and a thousand other details that don't actually serve a use to the player but create the sense of place and (dare i say) immersion that are necessary to pull the player into the game. I mean they had boats in Oblivion and carts as well, would you say those were a waste of time? Chances are 90% of the assets required for this system, that would please a lot of people, is going to be in the game anyway so it probably wouldn't svck up a mass of time and effort.

i get really annoyed by this attitude whereby someone doesn't want a feature therefore it becomes a waste of time. Please pick another argument against it as this one just smacks of short-sighted selfishness.

Aww, now i want my own deathllama

No it cant I am saying it wouldn't really make sense to have 2 different forms of transportation, thats like having 2 different weapon systems, or having 2 different systems of magic, I just dont see a plausible reason why they would include it

and in response to the console, Morrowind fans are really the only ones that want it, because there was a transportation system in it, it will be about 9 years after Morrowind was released that Skyrim is released, you are telling me that in that amount of time the morrowind players never tried mods

I don't want fast travel as it was in Oblivion. I want immersive and lore-friendly ways of transporation such as boats, wagons, mounts, mark / recall, etc.
If they do it right then the option of fast travel doesn't even need to be in the game.

That's one of the reasons I stated it should be optional... so that you don't get 2 different forms at the same time.


Here are my reasons, as I stated not so long ago, why I think it should be included:

1. I like realism. I feel that you should walk/run or use a horse to get somewhere in the wilderness. Between cities I want a transportation system because I believe it would be realistic for cities to have some kind of transportation, especially since there is trading.

2. I like exploring. You get to discover more while you travel. And since Skyrim looks pretty nice, it makes it even more interesting

3. You are often forced to travel, experience the environments a lot more. You also meet more people, etc.

4. When you travel to some place, it gets harder. A long journey actually feels like a long joruney. And when you arrive you feel like you've earned it.

A transportation system is also nice, because sometimes it does get a bit ... tiresome. I think a transportation system is more immersive than fast travel, because there's a more logical reason. You have to pay, find someone who can make the travel possible, etc... instead of just clicking on a location on the map and instantly get there.
The only illogical thing about a transportation system like Morrowind is that you still instantly get there once you find that person who make the travel possible and pay that person. Perhaps Bethesda can improve this a little more by actually seeing you being in a boat... traveling. And then, if you get tired of it, just press a certain button and the character would go to sleep and wake up at the final destination

all of your reasons for a transportation system sounds like it can be solved by just walking or riding a horse, and things like being on a boat while you travel would be a really bad idea, I mean your gonna go to one city a lot more than once, and each time you do you go on the same boat, after a while it would just be like yeh yeh I have seen this before take me to the city, maybe if they did it so that each time was unique then it would be pretty cool

Having played Borderlands a lot recently, I'm pretty fine with the idea of using fast travel to get around to cities, towns, and a few moderately safe outposts (they can provide an ingame rationale like "special teleport dragonshout" if you want). After that, you should have to go the rest of the way on foot or mount.

Those were my reasons concerning fast travel and transportation system.

And about the part where you take part in the actual travel in a transportation system: read the last sentence
It's still just an idea, and I don't really care if it's in or not.

My main concerns are fast travel being unoptional by setting and that there would be no transportation system.

I voted for optional fast travel (toggle on/off so I don't use it by mistake) + Morrowind transportation system.

I started the Elder Scrolls series with Morrowind but when I bought Oblivion what upset me wasn't the addition of fast travel, it was the removal of the transportation system. Many people use the "if you don't like it, don't use it" argument but like Doubler said, there isn't really a valid alternative. Some people seem to think everyone who dislikes Oblivion's fast travel system wants to walk/ride everywhere. Well, I certainly don't (it gets boring sometimes) but there aren't any other options if I don't use the fast travel. I can't get on a wagon, travel by boat or teleportation spells or even levitation or any number of options. Walking or riding. That's it.

I don't particularly want Oblivion's fast travel removed, I just want to have other options to travel long distances that feel more immersive. Which is why I voted for both systems. That way those that like fast travel can use it and those that don't like it (like me) have other options.

I think I am beginning to fathom why people choose to complain about fast travel instead of just simply choosing to ignore it. The fact is, people really like an excuse to complain.

But yeah, if it will keep people quiet, having an option to turn it off is fine. It doesn't hurt anything, its just an extra detail that the devs have to worry about.

My stance on Immersive transportation is that it should simply be a way to cut the time between normal fast traveling. If your fast traveling, you are on foot or on horse if your character owns one. And if a hardcoe mode becomes available, then it becomes a luxury, as you would be consuming less rations when you are on your way to your destination. That being said, I am kind of tired of Morrowinders thinking that Oblivion broke the cycle with fast travel. It was in Arena, it was in Daggerfall, and it was in Oblivion. If anything, Morrowind broke the cycle. As to whether it is good or bad, I am neutral on that subject.

I did and it would just be the same monotonous task, get on boat sleep, get on boat sleep, why not just go to city, its kinda like after you played through the game and on your 10th or so time you just skip the major dialogue

If you get rid of fast travel it makes athletics more useful. But being able to get from part of the map to the other in an instant is nice.

I've said this a million times before, but the issue is that there are no disadvantages to Oblivions system. In Arena you could get injured or even die if you fast travelled with a disease. In Daggerfall fast travel affected your money, health and travel time, not to mention the plethora of variables you could change. Morrowind required a monetary fee or magic requirement for mark/recall. Add some kind of drawback and everything will be fine, it's really that simply.

I think Slaves who posted an a comment just above your comment explained this in a very good way. We don't complain over it just because we want to complain. It's a real problem concerning immersive choices and we want those immersive choices to be included as options. Both so that those who like these immersive choices of travel can choose them by setting, and so that those who prefer fast travel as in Oblivion can choose that.
Exploring is an important part of an RPG. I think, and as well as many others I believe, that fast travel can destroy a bit of this exploring experience.

Edit: Spark_212 commented above me that fast travel itself (in Oblivion) is bad because it has no drawback. Morrowind had money/magicka. I liked that a lot. And you had to get to some... specific location in a town that offered this "fast travel" option.
I agree with Spark_212.




Yeah. Good point. I think that it might get an annoyance after a while... but perhaps fun in the start.
Still, I think it could be really nice IF it is implemented well. If travels actually could be different every few times, it could be cool

I just don't see the point in having it able to be turned off. If somebody doesn't want to use it, they don't have to use it. Why take the time to code in something that isn't necessary anyways?

This thread is about showing Bethesda what we really want, and to make it as easy as possible for them to see.
What we really want is best shown if you post what you want and why you want it, instead of using this "don't like it, don't use" that really doesn't add anything to the discussion itself but a useless discussion and flame wars. If you want to discuss the "don't like it, don't use it" feature of fast travel and a transportation system, please make your own thread. This thread isn't for that, I clearly stated that before.

It's kinda pointless to make an on/off switch for fast travel, considering if you don't like it you could just not use it. It's not like you're forced to use it.

I don't see why there should be a toggle option for Fast Travel. It just seems kind of redundant to me. The "On" button is clicking on a place you want to go, and travelling there. The "Off" button is simply not using the feature. I just think that it's a little silly that there needs to be a toggle option for an already optional feature.

As for alternate forms of transportation, there are horses. If you want to get around faster than on foot, but not use fast travel, use a horse. Unless you want a fast travel system that feels more immersed into the game. The only reasonable mode of transportation would be a boat, and I don't think there's going to be enough water between the city's of Skyrim.

I chose Option 4, because I don't think that there is any need for a redundant feature, and I can't think of any reasonable way to create a transportation system other than the horses that are already available in Oblivion. That's just my opinion.

How about a non-optional Fast Travel that works by using more plausible means? Say you can only do Fast Travel when you own a horse or magic carpet ;p
So when you click an icon on the map to FT, your horse would show up and you get on it, and you're moved to the destination.

Yes, I completely agree with you. And I've mentioned it in previous threads myself. Arena and Daggerfall just flat out have a better fast travel system than Oblivion.



I dunno. I still explored the [censored] out of Cyrodiil. I will Skyrim too, fast travel or not. But I guess I can respect how you feel about it. Even if I still don't understand why it just can't be ignored.

Fast travel itself can definitely be improved. That's a very good point.
But with your idea it can feel strange for those who actually want to ride a horse.

I'm not sure how, but fast travel should nevertheless be improved. Whether its through a transportation system or something else, it needs to be improved (in my opinion).
I want something more immersive than just clicking on the map and you're there :/

i want it like morrowind, but with many more options.
Boats
Mammoths [instead of silt striders]
teleport,
buy or RENT a horse [or other mount]
carriages and caravans.

and an option for fast travel for those who REALLY FEEL ITS NEEDED....gosh.

I think personally there should be an option to turn it on or off at the start of the game. It really cant hurt to do this. Then, surely, everybody would be happy.

You could turn it off, no fast travel at all. Mark/recall spells effective.

You could turn it on, fast travel within game becomes optional. Mark/recall spells effective.

This covers all areas surely.

I think what I don't get about this whole debate is this - how can you prefer fast travel over a transportation network? It's really almost the same thing, but the latter is more immersive and adds something to the world. It also gets you to visit places you otherwise wouldn't visit, like the harbor of a city (because now you have a purpose to go there regularly) or some small hub town. A transportation network is adventurous, but still fast. It's also rewarding because in the beginning, you won't find your way around easily and you might even get lost in dead end villages, but later you find that you have the whole network in your head and become really fast at getting where you want to go.
For me, that just sounds like pure fun. And I'm honestly puzzled why people keep defending fast-travel against people who basically want a more immersive/atmospheric version of fast-travel.

My idea of a transportation network is similar to the one from Morrowind, but ideally, it would also have guides who take you to any destination within a certain radius for a certain fee. Again, immersion and atmosphere. You'd travel by carriage to a city close to the dungeon you're headed for. There, you'd look at the local tavern, or maybe at some stand outside of the city, for a guide. He'd say "Yeah I know the area around here, and I can get you to that dungeon".

The only downside that I can see is that the game would have to load areas that aren't your final destination, which can get annoying. In Morrowind, that wasn't a problem because loading an area didn't take much time, however.

To mention one more big advantage of fast-travel: It's a money sink, and RPGs always need those. In Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion it was VERY easy to become insanely rich very quickly (even though I, personally, never managed to do so in Oblivion, I only heard it from others). If the fast-travel system, which is a feature that gets used all the time, costs money, then that's a very effective solution to that problem.

While I agree with everything you stated, I do understand why some people prefer fast travel as in Oblivion. Their argument, if I understand correctly, is that they: 1) either don't wanna spend time on wandering too much, 2) they want to be able to reach every single location in the game by clicking on a button (like in Oblivion) because it's easier (at least that's what I think they think). There have been a lot of arguments for why a change is needed and why a change wouldn't be needed.
It would be interesting to see someone who favour Oblivion's fast travel to point out exactly why he or she prefers it instead of optional fast travel and a transportation system.

In the article it says something about one of the dragon shouts would allow the play to transport from one place to another - I can't really tell if that means short or long distance though?

The return of Mark and Recall would be welcome for me, as would the option to turn fast travel on and off - maybe at the start of the game. Maybe a start up screen saying something like 'Would you like to enable fast travel this is your only chance to decide etc etc.' That would make everyone happy.