I say it because it doesn't really add up to any discussion value. There have been many threads about fast travel before; many of them have ended in flame wars concerning the argument "if you don't like it, then don't use it".
It's a lot better if you actually say what you want and why you want it. That can be discussed. The "If you don't like it, then don't use it" can be said about almost anything.

Take this for example: You REALLY don't like the magic system that is proposed to exist in Skyrim. Many others agree with you. You really hate it because it feels so bland and it's not immersive. You want it to change and be improved.
Somebody else suddenly then tells you "If you don't like it, then don't use it". One could easily assume in this situation, that it's not really very argumentative. The person (and the many others that agreed) that didn't like the magic system would then end up with a TES game without any magic, because they didn't like it. And if they didn't like it, according to that argument, the solution was not to use it.

I say that there is more than one solution to a problem. The only solution is not "then don't use it".
As a law student, I've studied arguments, their constructions, when they are valid or not. When I applied law theories on this argument one day, I found it to be valid and logical, BUT it failed in acceptable premises, which is a must for a successful argument.
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In addition, about the "what will stop the person from toggling it back on". Somebody else said made some comparison... I think it was about this:
A person is in a cake factory. There's free cake everywhere. Everyone for take. He knows it's bad for his health though... Will the person eat the cake or not?
Implement a rule not to eat cake in this situation (kind of equal to a setting), and the situation suddenly becomes different. As a player myself who don't like fast travel, it's actually kinda tempting. I feel that a setting to actually turn it off/on would help with that.
And a setting, realistically, wouldn't hurt anyone basically. And it would take very very little time for Bethesda to implement something like this.
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The reason I didn't even post any of this in the thread is because it tends other people to lean towards this discussion anyway, which in turn leads to a discussion comparable to flame war with no real value. So please, stick to what this thread is meant to.
The examples I made here are my own examples. If you don't agree with them completely, it's fully understandable

i think you should only be able to fast travel on horseback. its simple, its balanced, and it makes sense.

oh but i think it would add to immersion if you couldn't fast travel past bodies of water or ridiculously high mountains.
that way you have to use a boat to pass water and hump it past high mountains.

and i don't think it should be able to be toggled if these were implemented. i just think fast travel unless in the right context makes the world seem too small even if skyrim will be bigger.

it kind of takes away from the role playing as well. like in oblivion if you were in bruma and someone was like "deliver this to some dude in bravil", you wouldn't think it a challenge.
thats not how it should be.

I think option 1 is absolutely wonderful actually. I get to have my immersive system and the teleportation fans get to do what they wanna do, yay for everybody.

Here is a question for all the people who say that Fast Travel shouldn't be in the game. Everyone Fasts Travels. Even the people who hate it and say they don't use it because they don't like it, fast travel. Are you telling me when you play Oblivion or Morrowind that you RUN every where? Do you walk or run? I don't think anyone really walks.

Another thing that bugs me, is people don't want to Fast Travel for immersion or what not, but then they use other exploits. So isn't this a bit hipocritacle?


Would you like this? If you walk, it's free, but takes the most time.
If you fast travel by horse, it costs a bit of money, takes less time and heal a bit.
If you fast travel by horse and carriage, it costs alot of money, you get there faster and heal more.
If you fast travel by boat, it's the most expensive, you save alot of time and heal quite a bit.

Also, would you like to be interupted by bandits when you fast travel?

the same reason why they made the hardcoe mode in fnv
do you also want me to pretend im dieing of starvation? LOL
its just a failsafe to prevent temptation of exploitation of a feature you feel cheapens the experience of the greatest rpg ever made. trust me, it makes it much better

This

No no no. The guy asked if fast travel would be optional, and Pete replied with "When has fast travel ever not been optional? Don't want to use it, don't."

Nothing was said about travel services, or alternatives at all.

Ah I see where you are coming from. Ok I understand better, thank you for your explanation. So it goes both ways. I agree the "if you don't like it, don't use it" is not the only option. Now if we are debating, that approach hasn't been proven wrong though. So now the person needs to prove why that is not an option. Alot of us, me included, just can't fanthom about simply not using Fast Travel. It's one of the most simplest options of not using it, so why does it need to be turned off?

I can understand that there should be 2 options. A Morrowind style option and an Oblivon style option. But if there is no Morrowind style option, why does the Oblivion style option need to be "turned off" when you simply don't use it? This is what I don't understand. You are not forced to use it if it's "turned on" but others would be forced to use "slow travel" if it's turned off.

So if we don't have 2 fast travel options and only the Oblivion option is avaliable, why does it need to be toggable? Besides the I want to go to someone and "pay them" for "immersion" factor you can do everything what people ask for, in no fast travel.

I think you should be forced to experience the environment. I find it to be fun. And with Skyrim looking pretty darn beautiful with hopefully a lot of unique environments (they said it was going to be like ... 7 totally different environments?), I believe it will be even more fun. A lot of the experience in Oblivion was for me roaming around in the wilderness... looking at the landscapes.
I understand if you don't think it's fun. I think therefore it should be optional to include fast travel by a setting.
It was my personal opinion.



I added a short explanation why I think it should be able to be turned on/off.
The most friendly argument that doesn't seem to lead to any flame war is that "it doesn't hurt anyone" or "lots of us like it"
I wrote more about it being toggleable in my previous comment. About the cake factory
That's what I've experienced to be the major reason why we want it as a setting. It's tempting.

Ok, I see where you are going a bit. The thing is, having Fast Travel optional dosen't prevent temptation. All that does is mean you have 2 or 3 or 4 extras screens to go through to turn it back on. Now if you have an "achivement" that you get for not using fast travel, then yes I would say have it optional so you don't accidently fast travel when on the map, say a cat or what not jumps on your lap when playing.

Then again, I want to know why people have the "temptaition" at something that will cheapen their experiance. I hate mustard. Why would I want to put mustard on my hamburger or hotdog if I don't like it and feels it cheapens my eating experiance then.

I like this debate, nice and friendly.

that sounds a'lot like fast travel from daggerfall. not what we mean at all.
most of what we are asking for is a transportation like in morrowind where there are services available that the game-world provides
not some magical teleportation with minor penalty.

and yes maybe as an extremely random event from time to time to interrupt my travel. it happens all the time on foot and would make for a more interesting experience.
but like i said, rare. it shouldn't be every 10 times i travel.

and weather its hypocritical or not doesn't matter. your someone who doesn't like the service because it takes up time. video games in general take up time. thats hypocritical, so just quit while your behind.
my question for you is why? why do you care? "if you dont like it then dont use it" right? so take your own advise. im not calling you a troll because your point is valid, but you do seem to be poking at peoples personal preferences which do not directly concern you if "you dont like it dont use it"

But we are forced to experience the enviroment. We can't fast travel to somewhere we haven't discovered yet. Has this changed in Skyrim? In Oblivion unless it was a major city, you can't fast travel to a destination that hasn't been discovered yet.



I must have missed this. I will try and go back and read it. What page was it on?

I hate fast travel, it was fun until I realized all I was doing was skipping straight to the dungeon.
Many people say its optional, and its true you actually have a screen asking you if you are sure, it is largely a requirement.
It is a requirement because the map is too large to walk from place to place, Anvil to Bruma or Leyawiin.
Horses don't help at all, they go at roughly the same speed as your character usually can.

So fast travel is a requirement because of no other viable alternatives.
So I vote for either option 1 or option 3.
As long as there is an alternative I will be happy,

Besides, it makes for a good gold sink...

Also, it made big cities feel bigger, in Morrowind. Probably because you had to travel through them. In Oblivion cities felt, to me, to all be detatched and of equal size, othert han The Imperial City.

It doesn't need to be turned off. It's been stating here that we want the option to turn it off. You can basically ask the other way around: why does fast travel need to be turned on?
In any case, I believe the explanation is, why many want it optional, is because it's still tempting as just being a "choice not to click on that button on the map".
As a setting, I believe it would be a lot easier to get rid of that temptation. (Cake factory example)

I want to experience the environment as its fullest. As I would in real life. This is a personal preference, so therefore optional would be the best for everyone. As you can see in the poll, a lot of people actually feel this way too. They want it optional.
Some want it because of the temption I assume (I can't be completely sure about everyone of course, but that's why I want it at least). Some want it because they see no harm in it. It's not a big setting, not something that affect other content worked on in the game
I personally think traveling has a lot to do with an RPG like TES. I really enjoyed Morrowind partly because of it. Gave a whole new feeling to exploring (in my opinion, still). That's one of the reasons I think it's a very important subject that needs some light shed on it.

Hell, I'd be happy if you could only fast travel to the cities (after discovered) and not ruins or anything of the like.

If we had to have it, I'd prefer to have it that way.

I apologize if I am poking at people personal preference. I guess I have read too many posts of people who say "that fast travel should never be in the game" I forget no everyone is like that, and I may have been a bit too defensive. So please forgive me for that. Not my intention.

I agree things should be optional, but I just haven't understood the "self control" aspect of why it was needed. I was trying to get understanding on that part.

I agree we should have bother, a Morrowind and Oblivion style to make all of us happy.

Hey, if you don't like the fast travel toggle button, don't use it

Yes but only forced once.
Its a good arguement against anti-fast-travellers.
For instance, I often used selling black soul gems as a means of making money. Sure I had to fine one location, but making repeat runs it became very tempting to use fast travel.
So despite the fact I had to face the wilderness once, after that it turns into a series of menus. Thats not a very fun way of spending a considerable amount of the game.

But there is no reason for them to remove fast travel, just add alternatives.
As I said, option 1 or option 3.

i understand. your forgiven, have a pint and forget. :foodndrink:

I don't know if it has changed in Skyrim. Maybe someone else knows. I haven't read all the article. Anyway your point is very good. You get to travel to the place and discover it. Experience the environment. BUT, the problem I see with it is that I want to get that experience again! I want to be forced on it! Fully experience the means of traveling! (this is just my opinion though!)

If I'm bored though, which I can get ( I'm not a robot ), it would be nice with a transportation system. Not only services between cities, but spells like mark/recall and intervention. They are lore-friendly, feel pretty immersive and perfect I think

The cake factory example was on the previous page, page 4. Near the bottom of my post. The main point is that it is still tempting with no setting to turn it off/on. And by human nature, we tend to lean towards temptation... unless someone stops us a little

Obviously it must be a player's choice.

I dont like the notion of it being optional... that would be... a little bit too tempting to keep it on.

I would rather say that they should make fast travel hazardous, like in Baldur's Gate. If you fast travel there is a chance that you'll meet something on the way, which you may not want if you are hauling something valuable from a dungeon, having already been beat up.

But then again, you could just load a saved game until you have the luck not to meet anything.

Still, it's better than oblivions system.

if the morrowind style travel was reinvented and more fun then fast travel would be sorta cheaper than usual and might just be scrapped.
thats my argument.
but for people who like fast travel stay the course..it seems like its in the game already.
but when they said "mammoth" that gave me hope XD
and also one of the pages has some concept art of a city on a lake. it had boats in the lake. so that also gives me hope.

Oblivion had boats.

Oh, that makes me sad...

Going everywhere by foot or horseback can often get tiresome, so not using fast travel is not really a good option... for me it's not really an option at all.
A more limited and immersive system (like Morrowind's system) on the other hand, that is a good option.

I like it because:

• It limits fast traveling to be between major locations, instead of allowing fast travel to every place I have visited from anywhere.
  
• I have to plan my route before I travel.
  
• Travel services like boats, carriage etc. feels like a natural part of the community and adds to the world.
  
• I'm forced to walk/ride the last part of the way when going to locations far away from civilization.

I know some people think this is may be a tiresome way of traveling, that's why I want this in addition to normal fast travel. I just want to have an alternative fast travel choice that I feel is immersive.