Fast Travel System : V - Skyrim

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:52 pm

No, I don't want even an optional Oblivion style fast travel. If the game is designed with the idea that you can teleport anywhere you like instantly it makes it impossible to play the game enjoyably without it.

Scenario: I hate Oblivion fast travel. Angry air-displacement-device-boys tell me that it's 'optional' and if I don't like it I shouldn't use it. First quest sends me halfway across the overworld with absolutely no alternative options. Nice.

Give us back Morrowind's system and design the game around it!

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:01 pm

Fast travel is DAMN useful, and can save you hours of real time, but...
Transitioning from Morrowind, with its siltstriders, gondolas, and mark/recall spells (which were really an inventive way around the world travel problem),
to Oblivion, where you suddenly can teleport without magic-- but only to certain locations,
broke the sense of immersion. I'm really hoping Skyrim changes this into a more involved system, if only to help players see more of a (hopefully) well-crafted world than one does when going between fast travel locations.

Obviously making things as easy as pulling out your map will be a must for casual players, but a system as simple planning your route on the map, and possibly integrating travel networks like river rafts or roads/trails that you've discovered, could change the game, and in a good way. Random events on the road, like bandits or meeting a trader, would be cool to see, and based on in-game tips (or your intelligence stats, or how much exploring you've done) you can deliberately avoid or run into these situations.

I'm still going to get the game, fast travel or not,but this is something I've thought about while playing Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout.
What would you like to see changed for Skyrim's travel??

I agree with alot of this, though I do need to admit that I like Oblivion's fast travel system. I also loved how they made the system work in Morrowind, and think a mixture of the two systems would keep the immersion for the die-hard Elder Scrolls fans while making it fast and easy enough for the casual gamer to enjoy.

All that being said, your idea about getting to plan your route for fast travel is a small stroke of genius. Let's take it a bit further though.

When planning your route, you have to loop it like a modern highway map where it would run to and from other major and smaller cities. Also some other major sites, ruins, dungeons, etc. would be the little stops on the way. Now, that being done, when you travel there could be a small percentile chance that your caravan/horse/whatever is intercepted by marauders/monsters/highwaymen and you then have to fight/use diplomacy to get out of the situation. Then, because your travel was interrupted, you could either continue on foot or try to continue fast traveling form your new location.

What do you guys think?

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:38 pm

I like your suggestions but I hate to break the news to you. The game has already had the fast travel system, the only thing they changed in Fallout was that you had to walk there once first, so I really don't think they will revert back to an older travel system because the one they have is what fans expect now. They might make it so you have to get to a location, including all cities, before you can fast travel to it and I think that is something that they could actually give the player control over. However I do not see Bethesda going back to an older travel system, not going to happen.

I don't really think you can compare Fallout games to TES in this point. Fallout games... there the civilization was almost dead. Everyone was for themselves basically. It was a no man's land. Trading was mostly done by individual people, and wasn't really organized at all.
TES has great many civilizations that are well expanded throughout the world. Lots of trading. Therefore, the needs of transportation are big.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:11 pm

The character doesnt teleport to those places, havent you ever cheched the time be4 and after travel

My mistake, I forgot that hyperbole doesn't always translate in text. Yes, time passes on your clock, but suddenly going from one place to another, in distances of up to hundreds of miles and with no more interim than a loading screen, makes things seem like it took no effort.

As an anecdotal side note, for all intents and purposes, you're character *could have* teleported there and waited for those untold hours, and you would be none the wiser.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:59 am

I want my cake and eat it too ! Don't forget in MW there was Mark/Recall which is a one place only fast travel and that worked pretty well. maybe I'm spoiled but I like to keep fast travel for quickly getting somewhere when I'm loaded down with loot and need to unload, stock up and head back out. But I also like that idea of finding a transport type somewhere while you're wandering around and realizing they can only take you to a few places. If fast travel is to be removed then they should bring back Mark/Recall.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:15 am

I agree with alot of this, though I do need to admit that I like Oblivion's fast travel system. I also loved how they made the system work in Morrowind, and think a mixture of the two systems would keep the immersion for the die-hard Elder Scrolls fans while making it fast and easy enough for the casual gamer to enjoy.

All that being said, your idea about getting to plan your route for fast travel is a small stroke of genius. Let's take it a bit further though.

When planning your route, you have to loop it like a modern highway map where it would run to and from other major and smaller cities. Also some other major sites, ruins, dungeons, etc. would be the little stops on the way. Now, that being done, when you travel there could be a small percentile chance that your caravan/horse/whatever is intercepted by marauders/monsters/highwaymen and you then have to fight/use diplomacy to get out of the situation. Then, because your travel was interrupted, you could either continue on foot or try to continue fast traveling form your new location.

What do you guys think?

This is actually exactly the logical conclusion I was going for, my friend, and you got it dead-on. Developers could map every area you can fast-travel through (I'm leaving it open-ended as to whether you can Ft everywhere, though being required to pass through certain checkpoints you've already found or heard about before-hand is a wonderful idea) with percent-chances of running into encounters. You could choose to avoid or charge through these areas based on your knowledge of the game, and even influence how dangerous they are by questing (say you take out the leader of a known highwaymen party?).

I think the best solution is a combination of roads and NPC guides.

Roads would be the new "fast travel" so to speak. We already have roads in place between major cities and towns with signs and bricks guiding us along the path. There should be maps outside cities that allow us to fast travel to any of the other cities. This would be similar to Morrowind's forms of travel, but would be free and allow us to pick from all the cities at once. By not being able to teleport to every single spot on the map instantly for free, we solve the issue with fast travel. For those who do want to fast travel everywhere, I propose a second system of travel.

NPC guides would be our solution to locations in the wilderness. There would be scouts for hire at the major cities who can take you to the minor locations around their region, even if you have not been there before (They know the way, right?). You have to pay them to take you there, and you should be able to pay them to stick around for a little bit. This gives us an incentive to not hire guides: they cost money. In the old form of fast travel, one just warps to a location and then warps to the next. Who can avoid using something when it's free?

By making us pay to teleport everywhere, we give people a reason to go adventuring into the wild while still letting those who want to teleport do their own thing. I believe that my system best covers the need for fast travel between cities while reducing the heavy usage of fast travel that kills off the wild part of the wilderness.

As a closing thought, no matter what happens we need some random events in there. If using the fast travel system, I'd like to get mauled by a bear. If using my system, I'd like my guide to get murdered by bandits on rare occasion.

Edit: I forgot about the fact that half the time you're also trying to get out of the wilderness... To cover that there could be either teleportation spells (mark/recall, maybe interventions) or wandering scouts that you could hire to take you back into town.

Making routes pathable along highways and other roads is also a great idea, and if you want to go into the woods, you would have to know a trail first. Otherwise, you have to go on foot, unless (as Spectre suggests) you employ a guide (or other mode of transport) to take you to locations you have yet to discover.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:13 am

I just want to thank everyone for taking an interest in this. Who knows if the developers will take an interest in this, but then again who knows if someone reading this might not become a developer themselves. There are some great suggestions on this thread.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:26 pm

Not just you, I completely agree. Morrowind forced you to explore, causing you to find all kinds of stuff... It was pure awesomeness

Not finished reading through the whole topic, but I agree completely. I can't even begin to count the number of times I got lost or distracted looking for something in Morrowind to find something useful that I wasnt even looking for. It really adds to the immersion and makes exploring worthwhile.

My suggestion:

choose whether you want fast travel at the beginning and charge a percentage of the players septims based on how far they are traveling to discourage abuse and/or make it more risky

I personally hope they return to morrowinds style of fast travel which made sense

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:09 pm

you guys are ignoring the fact that fast travel in oblivion was neither magical nor instantaneous. While fast traveling game time elapses implying that your character actually walked/ran to the destination. It makes sense the one could instantly know where are the main cities were because they were all connected by a network of roads and there location was common knowledge.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:15 am

you guys are ignoring the fact that fast travel in oblivion was neither magical nor instantaneous. While fast traveling game time elapses implying that your character actually walked/ran to the destination. It makes sense the one could instantly know where are the main cities were because they were all connected by a network of roads and there location was common knowledge.

I think you're missing the point. The concern is, as I understand it, the importance of exploring. That's basically why most people dislike fast travel, I think it seems. While fast travel in Oblivion may affect game time, it's still instantaneous for the experience of the roleplayer, since you don't discover anything on the way and you "teleport" there instantly.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:59 pm

I think you're missing the point. The concern is, as I understand it, the importance of exploring. That's basically why most people dislike fast travel, I think it seems. While fast travel in Oblivion may affect game time, it's still instantaneous for the experience of the roleplayer, since you don't discover anything on the way and you "teleport" there instantly.

Then walk instead...

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:52 am

Why walk when you can ride?

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:11 pm

No fast travel. But if it will be there make it optional and let there be other forms of transportation. In oblivion you where basically forced to use fast travel, because the only other form of transportation was by horse.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:09 pm

In Oblvion, the scope of many of the quests was worldwide, which in some ways neccesitated fast travel. Fast travel had the downside of making the game world seem very small, and allowed us to be lazy, missing some of really cool side areas. For Skyrim, shrink down the size of our quests to be in the general area of the place where the quest was received, reducing the need for fast travel. As the game progresses (or as you progress) expand the scope, but allow some travel options.

For instance, in Morrowind, if you were ranked in the mages guild, you could be teleported between certain cities. I say expand on this and offer a caravan system for the warrior's guild, and perhaps something akin to stealing a ride in the caravan for thieves guild, or secret underground by-ways that facilitate faster travel. Make these destinations unique, but with some cross-over for people who rank in other guilds. Mark/Recall was great, but add more marks as your mysticism skill increases. For non-magic users, an item with a unique power to do something similar for balance.

Alternately, I wouldn't be opposed to an oblivion style fast travel, but make it only unlock late in the game when you've already found most of the things, or offer it as a post-game perk when you've already completed the main story.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:40 am

OIblivion fast travel. But I'd like to have to get there myself first.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:16 am

Morrowind style, imo it's the best most immersive system. Oh and I don't want the world map pre-filled with major cities either...I liked just finding out about them in Morrowind. Finding them on my own added to the mysterious feeling of the game.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:52 pm

I thought morowind's fast travel system was a good balance of immersion & convenience. Especially if you carried around divine intervention scrolls when out pillaging the countryside. Maybe have something like the silt striders, but with a map that pops up to show your destination & route.

mark & recall would be nice to have again (perhaps even a "hearthstone" type thing, takes you to a marked inn/tavern).

I just hope they get rid of the quest objective marker, or at least make it optional..

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Could someone please explain to me why some players hate fast travel. In Oblivion, fast travel was optional, if they think it ruins the experience then surely they could just walk everywhere. you aren't forced to fast travel so how can people complain about it?

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:38 pm

Then walk instead...

Walk or fast travel. False dichotomy.

Morrowind had fast travel but was much more well implemented and made more sense gameplay wise. In Oblivion you either used it or you didnt if you didnt want to ruin your roleplaying experience unlike Morrowind. Throwing in a point and click fast travel system is just taking the easy way out.

How do people actually get around in Cyrodil when they are short on time and can't travel by foot? Or they just want to get a location faster or use less energy? We don't actually know.
We do know how people travel in Vvardenfel besides foot.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:35 pm

I liked the Daggerfall style. If you want fast travel, you must pay for the inns and/or ship passage.

At the beginning of the game that forces you to walk around and explore. After you explore bunch of new places, advance in ranks, and get rich, you can choose fast travel by paying game money to save real time.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:08 pm

I like New Vegas style, where you have to actually discover everything first before you fast travel. And that also means cities, towns, and other civilization areas. In other words, you start out in the game with your map almost empty, except for the area you start out in (In New Vegas’ case, Good Springs).

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:47 am

Fast Travel is good, it is needed for casual players and especially an Elder Scrolls gaem that generally has a big map to explore. But for people who dont want to use it, why not have a New Vegas-ish"hardcoe" mode where you can only fast travel until you starve, dehydration etc. That way it cuts out all the useless walking if you really dont want to do it (that I must add am a fan of

), but also keeps to certain rules. Or add in certain Morrowind type fast travel options you have to pay for, and will only take you to settlements.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:29 pm

Something that I have repeatedly brought up (and hey, I'm back with it!) is scout travel. Scout travel would be the slowest and most expensive (in the thousands). It would work like OB fast travel in that the scout takes you directly to a marked location. The scout would camp for a day or two there then leave. Providing time to do your deed and return as you came, but not unlimited, and with no help from the scout other than the traveling. And a more immersive take on OB porting.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:07 pm

I gave up halfway through and checked the UESP out of frustration. What a waste of my afternoon...

When I boot up a game, I really want to utilize my limited time to have fun, not playing hide and seek... and I believe we're specifically referring to finding a place we've already been to, anyway, no?

I feel like you should be playing Fable or Call of Duty then. I don't play Fallout NV or Morrowind when I only had an hour or so to play. These are games that you are meant to invest many hours into.

Now, Map markers to locations you have already found (IE: Caves) is totally fine. I just don't want to be able to Fast Travel by clicking on it on my map. That takes out the realism of it.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:54 pm

your idea seems nice, I did not mind fast travel that much, but I hope they give us more incentive to explore if they keep it as is.