What map? I don't use the in game maps :hubbahubba:

Almsivi, Divine, Recall, Propylon Chambers, Levitation, Jump.

But you're still getting there. You're saying it like you can only fast travel or stand still. Daniel Kay explained it the best so far, but I still don't understand why everyone has to be a little [censored] about it.

This is correct, Morrowind's fast travel was not optional either.

But Morrowind's fast travel was integrated into the game in a way that made lore-sense so it didn't break immersion or make me feel like a cheating loser to use.

It also provoked thought. It required strategy. When someone told me about a remote location I want to visit, I would think, "hmm how do I get there?" Check my paper map, think about all the routes I could take, try to remember all the different ways I can travel. It INVOLVED the player. That is what games are about. Not just "lol click here to get to this place instantly".

Ok, gotta admit I forgot those, been a while i played Morrowind.

But gotta ask now, did you read the post i made (the one i linked to before) and would you agree or disagree with that?

I definitely agree with all that you posted. The issue is not the system, but the options within that system. It's obvious that Morrowind did not have multiple systems, but a single unified, and well laid out, system of travel in which each aspect of it joined to create a wondrously diverse environment for travel. Oblivion's system is just so bland. It is straight forward to the point of absurdity. Go everywhere, any time, for no cost except for time. Roads should always be a limit, and enemies as well (but well spread out enough so that it's similar to Fallout 1 or 2's random encounters. Not too often, but happen frequently enough to keep one on their toes).

As I have always said: it isn't about the destination; It's about the journey.

I agree but a thing, there should be abosultely safe paths too. The main roads SHOULD be safe but the longest and most expensive way to travel (plus you can get arrested if you camp along main roads).

But agreed on the layout, the way they created Cyrodiil was dull and boring and it was badly placed.

Ehh, let me explain this, I didn't post the link to my poll, because I think it was better, I posted it because my poll was already on the forum for some time, but you could still easily find it through the search option, which is an unspoken MUST USE on these forums (actually it's spoken quite often by moderators, but I like the expression:D). My poll is made as a multiple choice one, so you can easily "create" configuration of the past games without actually inspiring another discussion about which one was better thus giving the ability to start "from the scrap"(if you still don't think there's such an issue, just look at what people are already writing in your own poll...). I don't see any moderator stepping in so I guess this thread doesn't go against any rules so I don't really care if people prefer it than mine it was not my intention to fight over that issue. Although I must say I am not entirely sure I understood all you've written since you seem to have an alergy for vowels.

The first time I played oblivion I spent a week (real time) in Chorrol and honestly that was the best most realistic most magical experience I have had within Oblivion. It seems to me even knowing it's there takes a little away from the experience. Coming to a new town should be an achievment to have endured freezing tempratures and the ravages of hunger with little food. Make it feel like something to be proud of to have finally reached city "x"

I second that, this feel should be sustained throughout the game and it would be great if they could make it so that it doesn't get boring/tiring/frustrating after a longer while...unfortunately that's probably impossible :cookie:

With OOO and the personal ruleset I use, I get the feeling he described all the time.

I've had like 50 characters and logged hundreds of hours into the game.. and I have never made it past lvl 11 or gotten as far as meeting with Baurus in the main quest.

A few things:

A real map doesn't follow your position around and show you everything nearby all the time. You have to take it out, find where you think you are, and base your direction off of that. A compass is a simple North/South/East/West direction gauge, and is much more plausible as a quick-use tool.

Secondly, a real map doesn't float around in an always visible location either. :slap:

Look if you can't stop this arguing we'll have neither. Hehe

I just always feel the need to defend my stance on a topic and not let my opponent think that he has gotten off easily

:lmao:

I will just keep saying this, OPTIONAL mini map. The "fast travel isnt really optional" argument does NOT work as you don't neccessarily need the map but it greatly helps AND it was optional in Morrowind.

I'm not really opposed to a mini map added in, its just that I was choosing to defend realism earlier. If Bethesda gives me a feature to use in the game, then by all means I will use it to its fullest capacity.

Whats on the point of UI and HUD they should really go all the way with option, i did make http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1038148&view=findpost&p=15094479 you want and how they could be adjusted

i played morrowind and fallout for a couple of hours

so i just know the oblivion fast travel so i chose oblivion:)

My ideal Fast Travel system would be: You have to discover a place first and then can only fast travel if that place is known to be safe.

Or, only be able to fast travel on roads.

I havent played Falout yet but I know that Oblivions System is eficient and afective, so I chosed Oblivion.

In my opinion, both Morrowind's and Oblivion's travel options suited the games they were in.

Morrowind's system was well integrated into the game. It fit the game, as well as the world. You ventured out to explore new places, find new loot and unique or hand-placed items (which didn't respawn), and defeat new and different adversaries (most of which didn't respawn), so the transportation system was a convenient way to get back home with an armload of fresh spoils, or move to a fresh area to start exploring untouched locations. You still needed to explore. If you hadn't been somewhere before, you could either check a map and hoof it or else pay a travel operator to go there. For a few hundred "drakes", you could make the rounds of all the major settlements and fill in enough of your map so you always had somewhere relatively nearby that you could call "civilization", with enough Fast Travel options to at least get somewhere else (although generally several "hops" to get where you wanted to). The "getting there" parts of the game were often better than the quests, and the travel options served quite nicely to promote that aspect.

Oblivion's system also fit the style of play the game was suited to. There was very little functional difference between one bandit cave and the next: they all had random loot levelled to your character, and respawned every 3 days, so exploring fresh territory was "OPTIONAL". The quests were widely scattered, with nothing of any real interest in between, due to the randomized respawning levelled everything, so why would you want to waste time looking for more of the same old stuff along the way? Just click on the map and you're there, back into the action and right on track with your quest, which was the only valid point to most of the game.

FO3 used a modified FT system with one MW-style "integrated" travel addition, where you could use the Subways to go to other subway entrances where you hadn't been before, or you could use OB-style FT between known locations. FT, in this case, was a lot MORE optional than in OB, because there actually was another (although limited) option.

You make a VERY good point there, yea nobody ever really kept the respawning aspect in mind.
While in Morrowind you once looted a place it was done you could revisit the places in Oblivion several times.

If by forcing the player to play like a beta tool, it certainly was efficient. Though the only way it was affective was when it took into account Bethesda's passion for target markets.

I want a method that takes account of ingame geography and culture, like Morrowind, or at least one that takes account of ingame danger, like Daggerfall's. But even Daggerfall's system is pointless in a game world that is only a few miles across. Choosing how many inns to sleep at is moot in a world that can be traversed in six ingame hours.

Since TES V looks like it'll be in Skyrim, it'd be cool to see dog sleds as a form of transportation. Also to have map markers optional.

Nobody knows what TES V is going to be. Bethesda has not released anything about it.