From what I understand you can only fast travel to major cities and only once you've visited them, I don't remember where I heard this though

i personally love fast travel and dont see why anyone else would ever refuse to use it. but i respect their point of view and believe bethesda should also cater to those fans who find fast travel immersion breaking and make an alternative, as long as it doesnt detract from other game features. and to those wh ask if skyrim will be as rewarding as morrowind, im sure it will be with the new radiant quest/story that they've implemented.

I think you read one of my ideas to make fast travel to a point that is acceptable for both sides but that idea was shot down by those who want Travel networks also...



But that's the problem. TES always get reinvented each game to try to make the game even more amazing so if they would make a redundant fast travel system on top of the default system then it will detract from the rest of the game, which no one wants, especially not the devs.

This question is about fast travel, not walking, not riding a horse. It's about changing the foundations of fast travel, making it, in my opinion, more immersive. One of the biggest problems with Oblivion's fast travel is, to me, that it actually has no explanation at all other than time passes (and so does Morrowind's, except for teleportation spells). So basically, what characterizes Oblivion's fast travel system is:
- It's called fast travel and asks you to "Do you want to fast travel to...?"
- Time passes.

There is no direct explanation that you're walking or riding a horse. This is a very weak explanation, if you want to call it an explanation. To fill in the blanks by yourself and imagine that you're riding a horse or walking is, according to me, an exaggeration.
A comparison is "Physhic guards": You committ a crime far out in the wilderness by killing a lonely guard. You could see or hear absolutely no one from miles. When you a few days later arrive in a town far away, you get caught by the guards, claiming you've killed a guard. By this logic, you would have to imagine that someone, despite your thorough search in "crime-scene" in the wilderness, was lying around in some bush, hiding for some reason, and was watching you committ that crime. That imaginary person then went to the same town you did, but faster, and reported to the guards.

My point is that you shouldn't (and sometimes just can't) imagine all things by yourself. This also goes for imagining that you walk or ride a horse when you fast travel.



The downside is a symbol - a symbol of realism. A small amount of money charged for a transportation service is realistic. People wouldn't travel you in real-life for free; which is a suitable comparison concerning economics in this particular case.
I understand that you think that fast travel is okay, because you would only be able to travel to locations after you've found them. I disagree.

Firstly, I don't want to be able to travel to other locations for any other reason than I've already stated - immersion. When Bethesda have created this highly detailed and wonderful world for us, I would want to experience it more than once when I go to a specific location.
The locations I'm specifically refering to is dungeons and such, which I assume will pop-up on your map; allowing you to fast-travel to them by a click. To have this kind of enormous "transformation" for a state of traveling is not right in my opinion.
Even though you know the location of a place (i.e. a dungeon), you shouldn't be able to skip the experience of walking or riding a horse.
A location on a map is a place you know of; you know where it is. A comparison could be drawn to what you see as well, since you know where it is. So basically, going by that logic of "When you've visited a location (and therefore know where it is)" you should also be able to fast travel to anything that you can see from your point of view. This would count as, simply, any spot (not a location in terms of a dungeon) in the landscape that you can see. It could be a mountain peak, a field far away - anything you can see.

Consequently, I find the logic of fast traveling to specific locations that you've previously visited (i.e. a dungeon) heavily flawed; and the state of itself breaking of immersion.



If you read what I stated above, there is no direct explanation for Oblivion's fast travel.
Concerning mark/recall and intervention spells, it does fit into the lore. The description of Mysticism is: "Mysticism involves the manipulation of magical forces and boundaries to bypass the structures and limitations of the physical world."
While I'm aware of the fact that Mysticism will not exist in Skyrim (due to, I believe, it being seen as a useless skill that could be achieved in other Schools of Magic), its foundations is just moved to other Schools of Magic.

The mere fact that mark/recall and interevention spells are spells, gives them an explanation, since spells are of magical power - allowing you to do extraordinary things. Personally, I believe that spells and magical power fit into the lore, and therefore so does mark/recall and intervention spells, which are in fact highly useful.

The downsides of the Morrowind fast travel system was, as I stated before, a symbol of realism, supporting them to give them an explanation.



Using Morrowind's fast travel system makes sense because:
1) It adds transportation services that are usuable. A living world as TES is, with cities, shops, towns, people, need some sort of transportation. Transportation services have existed for thousands of years - especially boats. Trading is one of the main explanations for having a transportation system. This can be extended further to take use of the Radiant AI - allowing NPCs to take use transportation services as well. Furthermore, when you arrive at an airport or a train station - why do you think there are almost always cabs waiting? A wild comparison, but I think you get my point; transportation services need money - it's a job. In addition, if NPCs are allowed to use transportation systems as well; perhaps you'll sometime be unlucky and be left without a travel service NPC. Nevertheless, the core and main question isn't about competetion in terms of fast travel. Personally I would it be go too far to allow other NPCs to actively use the transportation systems as you do.

As I've stated before, the fast travel system in Oblivion has no direct explanation. You're giving it an explanation by using your imagination. There is a big difference here. And to use your imagination for one of the core aspects of what I think is in an RPG, is going too far. The "Physhic guard" comparison was given. In addition, you could stop all complaints about bad graphics by simply saying: just imagine it being better graphics. This is no real solution, and is more of a weak excuse to try and explain something that has no direct explanation to begin with.

Finally, to only use fast travel between cities is the same situation. Firstly, you're assuming that people will imagine walking or riding a horse to cities only - which also has no real logic. There is therefore still no explanation and no realistic symbol for a downside. I'd say this is even a bigger breaking of immersion, because you would actively have to think only to travel to specific points. This is, no offense, rather silly, because the real question is to change the foundations of how to travel in the world to what I believe to be a more immersive way - a way that gives you an explanation, a downside and where you can't travel from anywhere to everywhere. Therefore, the real problem still exist by this point of yours to "Only click fast travel on cities on the map if that's what you want". Read what I wrote in red once again, and you'll see that's not the real or true question of what I want, and of what I believe many other people want.

Thank you.

how would it detract? it wouldnt be redundandt to those who use that method and it wouldnt affect those of us who use fast travel. if we dont like it we dont have to use it.

Yeah it was a tad annoying in some respects, I think the idea was great, al little flawed in execution, I think not having to jump boat, strider, mage teleporter, as often would be better. The point is, BGS have the opportunity to make a better travel system, but they opted out. And I am not anti fast travel. After 20hrs of playing oblivion I was like thank [censored] for fast travel.

I still think places on the map should just not be accessible by boat, strider or teleporter, and you just have to walk, there would add to the remoteness of that area.

And I loved getting lost in Vivec that wasn't an issue.

I'm kinda glad it's in actually. lets me explore when I want to, and lets me get to town fast too, before I end up forgetting what I needed to do in the town anyways.
And honestly, the games sounds to be so awesome on the environmental side, that I'll barely use it anyways. I love views of mountains and forests and all.

What about the folks who want to use travel services? You ignore them?

Dude, I'm sorry to announce it to you, but there IS a downside to Oblivion's travel system. when you walk, you meet creatures, NPCs, bandits, guards and all the like. most of which would give you quests, fights and all, which would result in money, skill increases, level-ups and probably finding valuable stuff too. you didn't find them with fast travel. so technically, there IS a downside.

But yeah, I understand your point, and I respect your opinion.
just please, don't force it down people's throats. some people are glad it's in the way it is (yes I am), and it actually makes the game more enjoyable to them.

(and just something you might wanna know: you know that it's gonna take you A LOT more time and effort to explain why you don't like it, than just to accept it. and it gets to the same results anyways, as Bethesde WON'T take it out)

Just to keep things clear, that downside you speak of is not to Oblivion's fast travel system; but to exploring in general. There is a difference.

I'm aware that Bethesda probably won't take it out :mellow: . But I can hope to change their opinion, and others too. In worst case if there is no change from Bethesda (who have basically only used the "Don't like it, don't use it" argument so far, when it's an actual change of the foundation that I believe most people want) then there will be mods. And the more people who understand what I'm saying means more people ready to help modding it, or at least downloading it haha

I don't think it can be considered a downside that you miss out on treasure, experience, etc. It's not a positive effect but not exactly a negative one either. It is neutral.
An actual downside would be that you lose something, like when paying for the travel services.

I dislike Morrowind's travel system. It isn't flexible, I feel like I have to play based on the game's terms rather than my own. Oblivion and Fallout 3's fast travel system allow me to jump straight into whatever content I want to play with no fuss. In fact, I'm absolutely certain that if it wasn't for fast travel, I wouldn't have played the 600+ hours of Oblivion that I did.

Besides, the whole "fast travel breaks immersion" argument is ridiculous. If it breaks immersion for you, fine. But to imply that it breaks immersion for everyone is too extreme. It doesn't break immersion for me... I can roleplay that my character got to his destination however I like. Fast travel and Silt Striders work the same anyways, you select where you want to go from the list and POOF you're there. If anything, I was really dissapointed the first time I used a Silt Strider... everyone had told me "you can ride the silt striders from town to town" and I thought that sounded so cool, I thought I'd get to sit on it's back and watch it take me to Balmora, but nope, works exactly the same as fast travel.

I'm glad fast travel is staying. That said I'm not against a travel network too, but if all the travel network does is POOF you're there exactly like fast travel then I really doubt I'll use it.

Well alot of people play over 1 hour in one sitting.
JUST make it optional.
Yes having a story and somewhat limited travel system would mean wonderful news for alot of people. I like having cart, wagons, coaches, boats, mammoths, slit striders, taxis, sky machines, etc.

NOTE: Some of those mentioned in the following are just examples from a couple of games, not what I want in TES. Boats, carts, etc yes. sky machines and taxis no

i want a fast travel system that involves the player more, like only being able to fast travel along roads. if there is no road you shouldent be able to fast travel. and on roads you may get random encounters.

Not true at all. There are a lot of realism features that I(and many others who want an alternative to fast travel) don't want/need/care about, travel system is more important for a reason and it affects how we play the game in a significant way because it adds elements of exploration, danger that simply aren't there with Oblivion style fast travel.

One doesn't have to be exclusive to the other either - Morrowind style travel systems could be implemented while fast travel could still be there with a toggle.

Optional

I really don't see the problem. you hire a boat, carriage, silt strider w.e and one second your there the next your at your destination. fast travel one second your there, the next at your destination,only difference is you pay for it in one and not the other. with both you still have to pretend you walked/rode/sailed wherever you're going because you dont actually see it happening. all they do is cut out hours of pointless walking back and forth and back again between places. they both do the same thing whether you have to pretend you walked the distance or rode it.

I avoid using it in Oblivion as much as possible. You know, i actually like riding from Bruma to Leyawiin (But then again, i also like closing Oblivion Gates, so maybe i'm just weird ). I also avoid using it in Morrowind as much as possible, it's just as teleporting as the Oblivion/Fallout system. In New Vegas' empty wasteland the fast travel option is a real time and annoyance saver, though.

You liked the Oblvion Gates? Your one sick freak.I have to agree with you though on walking around, TES is meant for exploration and one should not over indulge in fast traveling.

This has been answered a million times. among other reason, with fast travel you can instantly appear anywhere of interest from anywhere... With travel services, they only go to certain destinations from certain destinations. there's a fundamental difference right there

no one has been talking about if fast travel is only to major cities/towns/ some villages. people just assume you will be able to use it to travel to everywhere like in oblivion, but no one knows exactly what fast travel will be like. We only know something called fast-travel exists in the game.

I feel like an outsider here because I love fast-travel.

I want both. Some playthroughs I use fast travel others I don't. How hard is it to implement a simple cariage system? Please both of the crowds bethesda not just one.

You know, if Bethesda has actually implemented horses that move like actual horses, traveling shouldn't be an issue anymore. This is the one thing they should be trying to take from Red Dead. Hell, I'd even take Aassassin's Creed's horses.

I just like hellscapes :blush: Also the reason why i like Doom3 :hehe:

in your face svckersss haha fast travel again. I'm glad they included just so they could piss off everybody on this forum.