Fast travelling?

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:09 pm

I don't want to be forced to spend 30 minutes walking back to the town where my quest started after exploring some Ayleid ruin (or whatever the equivalent will be in Skyrim).


At no point in time did MW's system force you to spend 30 minutes as long as you were adequately prepare for adventuring. Mark/Recall and Intervention worked exactly like the OB fast travel system (only with reduced functionality which could have been fixed by Bethesda, but was fixed with mods). Even if they had simply added a fast travel magic effect that could be purchased as either a spell, scroll, or enchantment the OB system would not have been as much of a total failure to the RPG crowd.
User avatar
Peter P Canning
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 2:44 am

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:55 am

I say, provide Morrowind's method for fast travel, combined with the method in Two world, and adding an Oblivion method over that would not offend me after that, as long as it is not the only choice. :)
User avatar
Laura Samson
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:36 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:40 pm

What's needed is a far simpler waypoint (WP), selectively (and probably) densely placed in regions, their positions determined by:

-Value of location and corresponding risk. Fast travel eliminates (skips) risk. Some areas ought to be dangerous i.e. a high level quest points you to Voldemort's tower, which is past the Prarie of Apocalyptica. FT allows you to skip the Prarie just because you've been there once on a different errand. The solution is to place the WPs somewhere near the outskirts of the region.

-Immersion. Quite possibly another level could be built on the waypoints whereby some WPs are commercialized and so cost gold to activate; some are restricted exclusively to certain factions. As a compromise, WPs only work within the same nation (or whatever the term is) and so the player is required to take public transportation to reach the capitals of wherever before they can reach the nation's WPs.

-Tedium. Morrowind's system, with some destinations NOT available at all Silt Rider locations, resulted in much tedium. Now clearly the system could have worked otherwise without any corresponding drop in realism.

-Design. Instead of taking a universal approach, why not tailor different systems for different scenarios? For example, some quests may be based on exploration, whereas some may be highly intense, tightly scripted affairs: less/sparser WPs may be conducive to the former; the latter would necessitate generously placed, easily accessible WPs.

Edit:
"fast travel only breaks immersion if you use it. You are not forced to..."


I don't think so...games should always take charge and dictate. It is human tendency to resort to the easiest course. Presenting options for systems that greatly diverge the game experience is, in my view, a bad idea.
User avatar
Lakyn Ellery
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:45 pm

At no point in time did MW's system force you to spend 30 minutes as long as you were adequately prepare for adventuring. Mark/Recall and Intervention worked exactly like the OB fast travel system (only with reduced functionality which could have been fixed by Bethesda, but was fixed with mods). Even if they had simply added a fast travel magic effect that could be purchased as either a spell, scroll, or enchantment the OB system would not have been as much of a total failure to the RPG crowd.

And I'd be fine with that too. As long as there's something. Like I said, Oblivion didn't handle this feature particularly well, but I still preferred it over Morrowind's style (at least, pre-modding; Mark/Recall was at least adequate with mods).

I don't think so...games should always take charge and dictate. It is human tendency to resort to the easiest course. Presenting options for systems that greatly diverge the game experience is, in my view, a bad idea.

That's a rather poor argument, I think. :\ Saying "Don't give us the option to be lazy because we won't be able to resist!" doesn't exactly put anti-fast-travellers in a strong position to say that anyone who uses fast travel is lazy. If it bothers you, don't use it; if you use it simply because it's there and you can't resist, I think that's probably worse than people who actually have a valid reason to use such a system, such as limited play time.
User avatar
maddison
 
Posts: 3498
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:22 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:26 pm

I think it's time we actually define what Fast Travel (FT) is, because FT isn't just traveling fast (like on a horse).

FT is when The Player skips time, which The Character experience real time. When you take a silt strider, it takes The Character 4 hours getting to the destination, while you jump to that arrival instantly.

Under these circumstances, we can see that Mage teleportation, Intervention spells/scrolls, Mark & Recall, aren't actually real FT. These traveling services actually work kind of like the horses in OB, no time is skipped, the Character is instantly transported to the location, and as a consequence, the player is transported equally fast, meaning they function like FT, as a side effect.

However, sometimes I really like playing a barbarian who hates mages & their filthy magic, and you wont see him use any spells at all. Because I roleplay this character, I The Player, will be punished with no convenient FT like someone who plays a mage, it's important to note that this is only a problem for the player, the character doesn't care that it takes 4 hours to get somewhere, time is only valuable to The Player. which is why FT exists in the first place. This is why I stress OB FT + Chance of Random Encounters being tied to mounts, because than there isn't a bias against non-magic users with regards to FT.
User avatar
Andrea Pratt
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:49 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:23 pm

I think it's time we actually define what Fast Travel (FT) is, because FT isn't just traveling fast (like on a horse).

FT is when The Player skips time, which The Character experience real time. When you take a silt strider, it takes The Character 4 hours getting to the destination, while you jump to that arrival instantly.

That's a good point. I actually forgot about that myeslf. ^^;;
User avatar
Kristian Perez
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:03 am

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:36 am

Fast travel with more restrictions (major areas only, not every little detail in the wilderness)
User avatar
Emmi Coolahan
 
Posts: 3335
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:14 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:22 pm

The in-game map has never been 'explained'. Well, I suppose the Oblivion Map, which had like a cartographers 'seal' affixed to it is sort of explained - though not why you already have it with you in prison and don't have to buy it from a merchant. Why would a map with travel information need to be explained? Why does it even have to be magic? You think they can't develop colored ink in a fantasy setting? Why couldn't my character just 'ink-in' the line on the map as I travel and find the routes? Or, perhaps, the cartographer which made the map put the established travel routes on the map already when you 'acquired' it, just like major roads and cities are already on the map when you get it?


I'd sort of like there to not be an in-game map. I'd like there to be maps available for purchase. Some would cover all of Skyrim, some would be of certain cities, certain regions, rare ones for certain dungeons maybe. That sort of thing.
User avatar
Chloé
 
Posts: 3351
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:15 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:41 pm

My opinion is that i wish for them to keep fast travel, for convenience. If you wish to travel on your own, then should be able to do so. I think that the developers would have too hard a time trying to modify the main quest so that those who choose to travel by foot arent going back and forth between every location.
User avatar
Tasha Clifford
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:08 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:52 pm

from reading this thread, I think the optimal would be morrowind's travel system, but with a greater density so you are never TOO far from a travel port. Or perhaps instant travel, but only a limited number of times (maybe once per day, so it can't be used to avoid battle situations)
User avatar
Yama Pi
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:51 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:32 pm

Travel System (similar to Morrowind's) with bind and recall spells.
User avatar
sw1ss
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:22 pm

Put them all in and let the players choose how they want to travel. Put appropriate time and money costs (and possibly random encounters) depending on what mode of transportation they choose.
User avatar
sophie
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:31 pm

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:18 am

"So much easier to get around these days. Not like the old days. Too much walking. Of course, nothing stops M'aiq from walking when he wants."

I like how it was in Oblivion but make it somewhat like Fallout 3 where we have to discover the city before we can actually travel there.
User avatar
Mel E
 
Posts: 3354
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:23 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:39 pm

The Morrowind option is the best option. I know fast travel is optional, but I still don't like it. Morrowind had it right, where you have to catch a Silt Rider to get somewhere, or a boat. It adds to the immersion.


Exactly right!
User avatar
Lynne Hinton
 
Posts: 3388
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:24 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:06 pm

This.

I fully expect laziness (both from the developers and gamers) to win over immersion.

Laziness? Oh yes, how dare I not want to walk the same, tedious, repetitive paths over and over again.
User avatar
GEo LIme
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:18 pm

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:17 am

I just want fast travel, regardless of how immersive it is.
User avatar
Eileen Müller
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:06 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:11 pm

I loved the morrowind style of fast travelling. Especially silt-striders, though I doubt they inhabit Skyrim :(
User avatar
Emily Rose
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:56 pm

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:26 am

Silt Striderssssssssss

Waiting for the obvious new "Snowy Silt Striders" if they decide to stick with the Morrowind system... Or they might just do carriages, which would be cool, but not as cool as frostbitten silt striders :teehee:
User avatar
Stephanie Kemp
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:39 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:21 pm

Have fast travel set at every city or small village and make it so there's a chance of being stopped on the way to your destination by bandits, creatures, etc.

That's the way I'd like to see it.
User avatar
Sara Lee
 
Posts: 3448
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:40 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:54 pm

I do believe a fast travel system must (and will be) implemented. Personally I would prefer a system such as Morrowind's, where fast travel could be only to certain locations (eg Silt Strider, Mages Guild). It promotes immersion while still making fast travel an effective game component.
User avatar
loste juliana
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:37 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:24 pm

I'm fine with the Oblivion method as it's good for people with only so much time to play, so half of the game time isn't spent travelling or trying to find transportation. That said, I've no problem with doing that and still allowing people who want to spend money on something similar to silt striders to do so.
Or possibly revamp horses (I'm not a big fan of them in Oblivion, they're a pain to climb down from when being attacked, and they get in the way when you're trying to fight the attacker) so that when you mount your horse, it brings you to a fast travel map.

Now that's an awesome idea :)
User avatar
Alexis Acevedo
 
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:58 pm

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:50 pm

Laziness? Oh yes, how dare I not want to walk the same, tedious, repetitive paths over and over again.


You're missing the point. Most of our concerns aren't about having the inability to use fast travel, but rather that it is the only option for travel. It's not because we don't want fast travel that we want to walk the same paths more than you. In fact, walking the same roads time and time again with no other travel possibility may be as annoying and game breaking to us as constantly using fast travel. Check out the ES wiki for how the system worked in Morrowind.
User avatar
Chris Ellis
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:00 am

Post » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:11 pm

Fast travel for the win (yes i went there), and with Morrowind's system for those who hate it. I'd be very disappointed if Fast Travel wasn't there, i know its an immersion killer, but i love it.
User avatar
Grace Francis
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:51 pm

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:06 am

I think they should just add a travel system like Morrowind's and keep Oblivion's system as well. Just give people the option to turn off the Oblivion style fast-travel. People who want more immersion with the Morrowind style would like it and give people that don't want to walk everywhere an option as well.
User avatar
Nancy RIP
 
Posts: 3519
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:42 am

Post » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:14 am

Morrowind's style just wasn't that good, it was unrealistic and ridiculous.

Mage's guild teleportation in Daggerfall was a privilege of the upper crust of the guild, and now they're teleporting every dog jerking [censored] who walks through the door for ten or fifteen bucks? That was a terrible plan. Giant fleas and their owners take you overland any time you want for ten bucks? You couldn't feed an animal that size if you charged three hundred bucks a ride. Fishermen in small boats will row you up and down the coastline for fifteen bucks? That would take all day, and then they've got to row back. There's no way they aren't taking a huge loss over their fishing industry. Gondolas. The best idea yet of transport, but with the dock being thirty feet below the boardwalk and the city being small, it's faster to walk where you want in almost every case. Bad city design on that part. Intervention spells? Treating the blessings of the Gods as average [censored] spells that require no interest in religion at all? Real slick, Todd. Mark and Recall were fine, but I would prefer Anchor/Recall and Mark/Call as separate spells so you can teleport things to you. Not that the proplyon indexes were terrible or anything, but they were a pain to put together and they didn't take you anywhere useful.

What they should do is an overhaul that addresses many facets of the travel system, and the maps in general. Maps like http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/6812/208206-black_marsh_map_oblivion_large.jpg look good in the game, and they aren't terribly time consuming to put out. Considering that, I say they make a ton of the maps and integrate them into the game world.

I'd firstly suggest that you'd have to buy all the maps you were going to use, as well as the compass. They had a wet compass in Redguard, so we know they can be items. Next, you'd need to buy the map or get the guide to the town if you wanted anything zoomed in. Buildings wouldn't have mini-maps or anything, they weren't tourist friendly. For more detailed maps of places outside the city, you'd have to talk up scouts and local mapmakers to get a map of the smaller piece of terrain, and to put landmarks and locations on there. As always, you can either pay for information about the area, or you can work for it with exploration.

Using the maps this way, you can also use them to fast travel. The map interface should be http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/fcry2mapbig.jpg so you don't have to be in a menu to operate. The animation to bring those out looked alright too.

To fast travel with them, you'll need to be able to navagate the paths, edges, districts, nodes and landmarks. The more you know, the better you'll be able to fast travel. The Outdoorsman skill will let you be better at dead reckoning and fast travel off the roads, while better Equestrianism skill will let you evade fast travel traps along the way.

When you get a quest from someone, they'll point to where it is on your most relevant map and you'll mark it. None of that quest marker business, so you can't mark people with it. Only locations.

As a standard, many maps need to be wrong, or just flat out lies. In this time, the boundaries are only somewhat agreed upon. Disputes over borders are still a common thing, and maps are one of the best ways to lay claim to something. Each noble would likely have his own type of map for his or her interests, and make their subjects see it their way. There shouldn't really be an official map of what is what in the world, and the overall map needs to look quite a bit like http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/457/26326036.jpg. It shows the major cities, a couple major roads, and the basic outlines of topography, but it's a pretty sparse map.

Then, maps by membership. Chances are that they aren't going to map every wayshrine of Arkay on a merchant's travel map, so you'd have to talk to the right people. Find someone in the town who worships Arkay, and don't forget that the society is henotheistic. Believing in Mara doesn't mean you give a crap about Kynareth. Getting maps as rewards again will be a great thing.

Lastly, you can sell locations to people. If you find an unmarked trade route, you can sell that info to some bandits. If you find out where the Baron's summer getaway house is, you can tell his enemies, or for a lesser price the Thieves guild. The guild might resell the info to the Baron's enemies, and clean house once they're through with the place. You guys might remember in Daggerfall being able to choose how you finish quests by taking evidence to someone related to the quest for a different outcome. There was a time Helseth was having you deliver a message for him, but you could take it to Barenziah for her approval and reward. You'll also remember revealing the mine to the elf in Vivic city in Morrowind, and that he gave you a daedric weapon for it. That's the kind of deals you should be able to work out. It's up to you to find and sell what they might be interested in.


I love you <3
User avatar
Mashystar
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:35 am

PreviousNext

Return to V - Skyrim