Mounts (I'd rather not be limited to horses - they're so unoriginal) would have to be a lot more expensive, though. I found, that in Oblivion, I could get a horse far too easy. This could be countered, of course, by fixing the economy, which is a constant problem through TES. And making it actually difficult to steal a horse.

I'd like it if It would take a few weeks for the mount to start saving the money it cost to buy. Otherwise, I'd need to use carriages, boats, or whatever.

I still actually like my magic system. It comprimises no one, and we all get what we want.

Morrowind has very slow running. Again, combat players who use heavy armor run slowly. Morrowind's default running speed is atrocious for heavy armor characters, and, for combat characters using heavy armor, horses are useful in Oblivion. I have never made a character that can run close to the speed of a black horse and horses are nice for those of us who want to role-play as heavy armor wearing, mounted warriors. Perhaps Morrowind caters too much to non-combat characters. Some people don't want to use spells at all(combat characters can't in Arena and Daggerfall also makes it difficult) and some people want heavy armor. Morrowind doesn't cater to that group with its only faster transportation methods being related to magic and with its horrible running speed. Just as horses are needed by me in Daggerfall, they are needed by me in Oblivion.

I have no idea what you are talking about 2 or 3 of my MW characters were guys that either didn't use magic, or used only destruction for magic, and lugged around heavy armor and big scary weapons. Never did I have issues of going from here to there, even when I was lugging a heavy load of armor and carrying 3 dungeons worth of loot. And if I wanted to use mark and recall, I found rings, amulets, and scrolls to make up for short comings a magic user naturally learns. It's not cheating or using magic, it's using your resources correctly. If using those things were the case, you should consider dumping artifacts and enchanted weapons, and ignoring the advice from everyone in MW about their suggestion that a smart adventurer brings intervention scrolls.

As for the usefulness of horses in OB, I found them to more of an annoyance than a help. They were easily killed, didn't really run that fast (even when I had guys wear heavy armor), and when it came to combat, having to get off the damn horse every minute to fight some beast became too infuriating.

I was saying that they should be included as well as the mark/recall-type device, so that once could use it to travel to a location that is on a certain travel route, then use the in-game transportation (such as silt striders and boats) to travel elsewhere. This wouldn't require any magical capability, it is a device specifically created to leave a mark for the player to return to. And to make it so that one could leave a mark at a travel location and at the dungeon (say if you wanted to buy potions, repair hammers, etc., you could leave a mark and quickly return), I said that the device should have two or three charges (preferably three, so that you can mark the travel hub, dungeon, then travel hub, just in case you need to get repair hammers or something from town in the middle of a dungeon, so you can get the hammers, return to the dungeon, then go back to the travel destination when you are done) that just work sequentially based on use. The point for the charges is to keep you from laying marks everywhere on the map, which would essentially just make it the fast travel system of OB.

Is there a particular reason why everyone is hell-bent on ignoring my input? I play these games too.

The solution is so bloody simple. Make it so oblivion-style fast travel is available, but dependent upon the player actually traveling to a destination the long way the first time around. In addition to that, have a variety of travel services available that can take the player to specific locations for a fee like in Morrowind. If TES5 is going to be modable like Morrowind and Oblivion, then those who want to enable full fast travel can creat a mod to let it happen. Or if they don't want it at all, a mod can also be made to disable it completely. Or they can just make fast travel an item that can be adjusted through the game's options interface.

Come on, guys... It's a SINGLE PLAYER game with a toolset that allowes the end-user to change whatever they want. For three games now, (TES3, TES4 and FO3) bethesda has put modifyable content in our hands to either play the way they make it, or to make it into whatever we can imagine. That's three games that can be 100% customizable to an individual player's personal preference.

If TES5 releases with fast travel, players will choose to use it or not. Or create/download a mod to disable it. If it releases with no fast travel, someone will create a mod to implement it. Why even argue about an issue that is moot, or will be rendered moot within a week of the game's release.

What I suggest above plays right into Bethesda's design for these last three mega-games: Giving the individual player real choices.

Yes, I want fast travel, good fast travel!

The issue is not everyone is playing the game on a PC. I have a 360 that I play it on and so when they release the game it is what it is (I can mod some, but it's nothing like you can do on a computer). And also, not every player has the time or know-how to mod their games anyway, so for them, the game they play is the one that ships. The mod tools are great for the people who have the time and ability to do so, but for those people who cannot, this forum is a bigger deal, as they want the game to be right when it comes out, otherwise their game experience will be subpar.

I kill two birds with one stone: I have my Speechcraft skill determine how much, and how far, I can fast travel. That solves the issue with fast travel being meaninglessly universal, and it buffs a near-useless skill.

Dragon Age fast travel system.

My suggestion solves the problem for the console version as well... So it very much comes down to personal choice. Fast Travel to areas you've been to. Use the travel services to get to places whether you've been to them or not. If you don't want to fast travel, then don't.. Player's choice.

I don't agree 100%, mixing OB and MW fast travel is not going to improve on anything. Bethseda likes to re-design each new game. And fast travel is an area that, as we can see by the discussion, needs to be re-designed. I don't think that Beth should scrap all pre-conceived notions of fast travel for some weird wormhole. But I don't trust the simple answer that MW + OB = TESV

That is why. I'm tired to hell of explaining the downside of Oblivion fast travel to idiots who say I have a choice.

Anyways, as was said before, using magical devices, potions, and scrolls isn't cheating, it's using your resources correctly. If you're roleplaying a character who refuses to use these, you're roleplaying an idiot. And deserve to have to take the long way. <_<

Quite a few of the arguments against Oblivion's form of fast travel amount to this: "I don't like it, so get rid of it." A lot of people, players and developers alike, including some who understand roleplaying games, value the convenience of Oblivion's fast travel system. They don't want to get rid of it, and the reasons they hear for getting rid of it are weak. Why not have fast travel by foot together with fast travel by other, more interesting vehicles? Why does fast travel by foot have to go? The ones saying, "If you don't like it, then don't use it" are ones who don't want to see a useful tool removed, particularly when the use of that tool is by choice. That you have no alternative to using that tool is not a fault of the tool, it's a fault of the game design.

About Oblivion's fast travel by foot:

• It does not cause dull scenery. Dull scenery is its own issue, fixed by making scenery interesting.
  
• It doesn't make the game noticeably easier. There is no reason to introduce random, hostile encounters. You already fight or avoid everything at your destination, or at your current location. You've proved you can deal with hostile encounters. Does throwing a few more at you really make a difference?
  
• It's realistic. Most travel in Elder Scrolls society is by foot. The only cost to it is time. Not having time-tied needs to motivate players to seek other methods of travel is no reason to levy a foot tax on the player. Not having time-tied needs is its own issue, fixed by adding time-tied needs, not by adding exaggerated costs to foot travel.

So you are saying everyone fast travels. So you're calling me an idiot because I choose not to fast travel or do.

LISTEN, STOP SPEAKING FOR EVERYONE.

Not everyone fast travels. I do NOT in Oblivion.

I've actually been suggesting the same thing the entire time, I just came up with the mark/recall-type device for players who would like to get from dungeons to travel locations. Otherwise, they are going to use fast travel to get there.

I think that fast travel Oblivion style is a useful tool. That being said, I can see why others have an issue with the complete lack of alternative transportation (that is, other than walking and horse). Many of the quests in Oblivion brought you back to places that you had been a million times, and half the time completely on the other side of the map from your current location. Thus, not fast travelling meant running (or horse-riding which wasn't all that fast) to opposite sides of the map MANY times, which is just a waste of time. You had already made that trip plenty of times, there was nothing new to see. For some, though, fast travel is immersion breaking, because they would like to watch as they take those trips and take in the scenery, really experience the world at its fullest.

I personally didn't think fast travel OB style was quite as horrific as some. It wasn't "poofing" to another location on the map, since the time of day (and even sometimes the day itself) were different than when you hit the button, just like you had actually walked there. But I do see the need for other forms of travel in-game that are fast and bring you within at least a close distance to all destinations.

As far as mark/recall goes, for those who don't play a magic character, don't want to use scrolls and equipment, and don't want to implement some mechanic similar to the one I suggested, then quick egress from caves and dungeons to a travel location is likely impossible. There needs to be some compromise, and unless you want to buy a horse for every single stable in the game (wholly possible but somewhat annoying, as not all horses are that fast), then walking to travel locations will be your only option.

I'm not roleplaying an idiot, and even if that was the case, and my character does deserve to take the long walk, I, the player, does not deserve to be with him all the way. This is the key difference in all of this.

I don't even consider the spells and scrolls Fast Travel, it is traveling faster, but not Fast Travel, if you get my meaning. This is because it isn't just faster for the player, it's also faster for the character, indeed the fact that it's faster for the player is a side effect to the fact that the in game character is teleporting. I see Fast Travel, as a jump through time and distance, only for the player, like when you use a boat or silt strider, the fast travel is when it fades to black and you, the player, reappear when you character has arrived at the destination. That is real fast travel.

The ingame scrolls and spells are no more fast travel than casting fortify speed on one self, and speed through the terrain.

It's not that a mage has spells that make the character travel faster that is the problem, it that it is also inherently more convenient for the player, this creates a bias against pure warriors, in terms of what is convenient for the player.

Hopes this makes sense to someone.

this

Looked at from that perspective (which DOES make sense), the game could use BOTH systems, along the MW AND the OB lines. As long as there are "believable" modes of public/private transportation present, and the game doesn't RELY on using FT, I don't have a problem if someone else wants to "fast forward". It's when there are no reasonable alternatives (for the player character or the NPCs) besides either "hoofing it" across the entire island and "mouseclicking" anywhere instantly that it feels "fake".

I don't want anything like Oblivion's or Fallout's fast travel.
Morrowind had a good system, where you could take boats and silt striders and such to travel between towns. If that were to happen in TES:V, mark and recall could be brought back.

to everyone who has said to completely remove fast travel in all forms (not those offering a compromise)

go and create a mod. then start testing it for bugs. you walk between anvil and cheydinhal 26 times in a row simply to test a small dialogue issue. then come back and say you want fast travel completely removed

I would also like to see this system. But there is an issue: some people play the game for just the action parts, and therefore like the fast travel system of OB. And it's a legitimate way to want to play the game. I enjoy the idea of having an in-game traveling system that allows me to experience every part of the game's setting, but for others the part of the game that interests them is in the story lines, character development, and the ability to accomplish things quickly, not to explore the entire continent.

I think that we have seen that there can be a compromise between OB fast travel and in-game travel routes if the travel routes are implemented correctly. The temptation for using fast travel becomes much lower. But to say "I don't want fast travel so no one should have the right to use it" is a little self-centered. The game is being built for more than just you and the people who want fast travel to be abolished completely.

Nice avatar!

:hugs:

Again, this is why I say that the best thing that can be done is for Bethesda to design it with fast travel that lets us instantly go wherever we've been before IF WE WANT TO, and use Morrowind-style travel services to get to any destination linked through them. Add to it that little Idea I had about fast travel markers going inactive from non-use, working along the same principle of random encounter respawns and/or container resets. make it so that the game will only remember x fast travel markers at a time, where X is 25% of the total number of existing travel markers, and you can only fast-travel to a marker the game is remembering.

Or, maybe fast travel in the next game could use two elements. The travel markers themselves could be placed on a road or trail in closest proximity to the destination. A trigger can be placed at the destination so when you discover it, it activates the associated marker. This way, fast travel only takes you to points along roads. For towns and such, the travel marker would be on the road at the point where the destination is in a loaded (active) area and visible to the player.

There are compromises to this issue.

I voted no but what I really want is morowind style.

I miss the good old days of looking at the map that came with the game and thinking "I could take a silt strider to vivec where I could hop on a boat to tel Ahrun and another boat to sadrith mora and from there I could walk to the ruin I want to explore" it just made the game feel more like an adventure instead of oblivion's fast travel system of get quest, teleport to map marker closest to desired destination kill everything in boring cave and teleport back. and repeat.