Develpers that are actively working on the game for a company that has the rights. I believe the Fallout Bible is a great source of information and I consider it semi-canon. I believe the games trump the bible. Info that came from past devs of Fallout I consider semi-canon unless it goes against the games. Devs of past games as well such as Chris Avellone. Pretty much the game trump all. Past games trump new games.

Autumn grew up on an Oil Rig off the California Coast. His father was a high-ranking Enclave scientist on orders from the President to move all high-ranking officials to the only other secure Enclave location with a functioning ZAX super-computer, Raven Rock.

- Fallout 3 GOTY Stratergy Guide.

Does not say which president. Could be a back up order from Richardson. "If the crap hits the fan go to a base with a functioning ZAX super-computer."

Colonel Autumn has proved less subserviant that his scientist father, often openly disagreeing with the President's decisions.

Come on old sport, you really aren't going to argue the context of 'the President' are you? There's the rest of the infomation from Colonel Autumn's bit, what I would say proves that the matter of fact 'the President' used for both his father's orders and then the fact that he is less subserviant to the same 'the President' means that both are refering to Eden.

I am going to argue the context of president. Autumn Sir. Was the one that lead them East right? He also worked for Richardson. It is very reasonable to believe that Richardson would have a back up plan. A standing emergency order to follow. Also if Sir was a scientist why did he lead the people? Why did he not become president? Am I missing somthing?

He could have been a military scientist like Lt. Colonel Dr Charles Curling of the United States Chemical Corp., would it make sense for Richardson to have such an elaborate back-up plan? I don't know, I would say not seeing as how Navarro was only a hundred miles away and maybe an evacuation plan from the ENCLAVE might have been better; Christ these were the people who had 150 years to solve the fact that the ENCLAVE's reactor had a massive flaw in that if one computer was disabled it would meltdown, something which Tom Murray, the Head of the Atomic Energy Commision, had addressed to him.

I don't see it as a complicated plan. What is so complicated with a simple order? " Move all high-ranking officials to the only other secure Enclave location with a functioning ZAX super-computer", (if something goes wrong.) Sir goes to Navarro and goes through Enclave records finds Raven Rock. Eden at the sametime starts sending an automated Enclave signal. Sir picks up the signal and thinks "hey the ZAX super-computer is clearly working." Takes what is left that is willing to follow to Raven Rock.

I don't see that as complicated.

Fine, I see the quote as conclusive; Sr got orders from the President to go to Raven Rock and Jr wasn't as submissive as his father to the same President.

Agree to disagree then?

For now...

I agree.

I'm not sure how a young soon-to-be-colonel Autumn (and Autumn would have been young when Richardson was still alive) could be "less submissive" than his father to President Richardson. Although the quote does not explicitly state it, I believe it's referring to President Eden.

Damn why didn't I think of that.

I think they'll almost certainly pop up in future Fallout games, but never more then a minor role. Since they are a secretive part of the old US Government, it would make sense that they would have small, hidden bases all over the country. Why does everyone seem to think they should only exist on the West Coast? I could see them having a few "major" bases that are in reality small, plus scattered bunkers like the NV. Since they've lost most of their forces in FO2 and FO3, they're probably hiding in the shadows formulating a new plan to gain power again. It would make for a cool little side plot in future Fallout games, actually. Have one minor Enclave base (but difficult to access) in each game where hacking into their computers would provide little bits of information on their current plans.

Because they weren't a secretive part of the government, they weren't official in anyway and included businessmen and other civilians in addition to political and military figures. They had a plan to posion everyone in Fallout 2 which required a vaccination or else you would die, they needed access to chemicals from a local town in order to manufacture enough of the vaccine and virus; therefore, any other bases would die.

Also, the President mentions to you that the Oil Rig and Navarro will be innoculated; he mentions this along with a tonne of other confirmable facts whilst gloating that in a few hours the Project will begin.

I think that its inevitable that we'll see them again in some way, but like you said, hopefully they will never be portrayed as the "big bad main enemy" again.

I wouldn't mind seeing them return in a role similar to the Mojave Brotherhood of Steel in New Vegas (you know.....except for the whole "every faction wants their base blown up" part).

Colonel Autumn would have been a kid back when the Rig was destroyed. Sir was the one that knew Richardson.

To me it makes more sense for that quote to have come from Richardson. It would close alot of plot holes and make the whole Enclave moving East more convincing. Having the Enclaving incontact with Eden all that time and yet no mention of it in Fallout 2 makes no sense at all.

The quote(s) however, suggest that Autumn Sr. was given orders by the President to head to Raven Rock and that his son Colonel Autumn proved to be "less submissive" (as in not following orders as faithfully as his father, who had traveled 3000 miles under order) to the same President.

In which case President Eden could be the only president the quote refers to.

Yeah but how can Autumn be less subserviant to a President he knew back when he was 14 or whatever, in comparison to the fact that they both have a history of one agreeing to keep a secret safe and one rebelling against the same President. We didn't see a single member of Richardson's Cabinet back in Fallout 2 yet we saw the big table with seats near his office and therefore assumed it existed; we know very little about the Enclave in Fallout 2.

"Less submissive" in general. Clearly he rebelled. Being forced to move from Navarro to Raven Rock as a kid where he never gets to see the president until I am guessing his advlt years, he would naturally not be as "submissive" aka Loyal to the Enclave. His Father was raised, seeing the president and VP. Jr was raided only hearing his president and only his president. Possible he was resentful of Eden. To me it sounds like Sir would have made a better president.

Having it come from Richardson would close alot of plot holes and make the Enclave moving East more logical.

No mention of Raven Rock in Fallout 2. Yet in Fallout 3 it seems that Eden and the Rig were talking all the time.

So because it isn't 100% garuteeable your not going to even consider it as more likely than your idea? Where Autumn just happened to enter the ZAX chamber on his own and was convinced by Eden; do you honestly think that it makes more sense if Eden had had no previous contact?

Yes I do because it would be an explanation that does not crap all over canon. Leaving plot holes I can drive a truck through. It is more logical for me to believe that Autumn Sir made it to Raven Rock. He and what ever other leaders their was found this ZAXs computer they were to seek out and found this computer to know alot about Enclave history aka American history. He learns from the info given from the people from Navarro. They find that Eden is willing and able to be president. So they let him.

Why would Eden tell them to look for a base with an active ZAXs super-computer? Would he not simply say "I am your president and I am at the following coordinates."

Autumn Sr was the only one privlaged to the fact that Eden was a computer and he just signed over to a computer because the computer is smart, because protocol doesn't exist? As you said Autumn Sr would make a better President.

It makes canon even worse, the people at Navarro essentially deserted and said that they were going to stay there whilst Autumn Sr went off yet he felt the need to build a Chicago relay?

It makes canon make sense. They go east following an emergency order given by Richardson. Again why would Eden give them an order to find an Enclave base with an active ZAXs super-computer? He would simply say "I am at these coordinates."

Augustus Sir being a scientist and not a constitutional lawyer is suede by Eden who is a super-computer filled with everything America. A thousand constitutional lawyers/scholars rolled into one. Augustus Sir Sees the logic in letting him be president.

It may make a secondary quote, fully open to interpretation based on the authors wording make sense; but, it doesn't make the rest of your theory make sense. Nor does it entirely dis-prove mine, why does Richardson's Cabinet being in communication with Eden and Richardson's emergency directive have to be mutually exclusive, instead of fighting, ins't there a way to make both make sense and complete the other; a thesis and antithesis if you will . Couldn't the non-specific nature of the orders, yet the fact that their is only one possible location aparently, be an indication of something? Maybe something about having Eden as a machine not become public knowledge?



You can't just let someone be President, logical leadership has no place in it. Look at Richardson's Vice President.

Eden and Richardson talking to one another is against Canon (There I said it). Fallout 2 makes no mention of Eden. No mention of Raven Rock. It just makes no sense to have "oh Richardson and I have been best buds for years" type crap.

I believe it is possible for there to have been a concetion to Raven Rock and Navarro but not a communications link. Somthing the people in the Rig simply forgot about or did not care about. This link was built as a means of sending an automated signal to Navarro in the event something happened to the Rig. Eden could have got data from Navarro but not talking to anyone.

As for not just making someone president. Why not? Augustus Sir. Following an order from Richardson to find a base with an active ZAX computer, gets Raven Rocks signal. "ZAXs must work" Following Richardson's order they go to Raven Rock. Leadership is gone. No one that can be president. Why not just hand it over to a Computer that knows more about America then all of the surviving Enlave combined! Make up a story to tell the others that he knew Richardson!

To me the idea of Augustus letting Eden be president is easier to take then the idea that Eden was a memeber of Richardson's government. That they new one another. :rolleyes:

Would not be the first time a people made a ZAX computer their leader