But wait, how would they know what a laser cannon is?

Can there be a dr_booker option? I am totally Stendarr incarnate. ^_^

Umaril, although Morihaus has a cool German name.

It was. I don't think defeating Hircine can really count towards god-like power. Hircine always gives mortals a chance, somehow. With the Nerevarine, he got to choose between Hircine's aspect of strength, aspect of speed, or aspect of guile. Each one was good in one area, but lacking in others.

Also, the fact that the Nerevarine was made practically immortal by Corprus has to count for something, surely? He can't age or be diseased. How many can boast that? I think the Nerevarine was bordering on demi-god status. (For example, Hercules was exceptionally strong, and almost immortal, but could be killed, since he was a demi-god)

I think being unable to die by natural means would have to be some kind of definition of being a demi-god. This goes only to the Nerevarine, and, depending on how the mantling of Sheogorath goes, the CoC.


And, the Tribunal and Ur where full gods. They where impossible to kill. They could even rival the Deadra in combat. The faith of thier followers even boosted thier powers (held up MoT and Ghostfence). Though it was temporary, they where gods in the full sense of the word. When the Nerevarine gets there, the Tribunal are no longer gods. They've lost thier powers.

The Tribunal, AFAIK, were gods - albeit not as powerful - all up until the moment the Heart was destroyed. Their connection was weaker to the heart prior to that, but it was still there.

The Nerevarine killed a god because he destroyed the heart of Lorkhan. Lorkhan was a god, right? (Technically it was keening and sunder, actually. The Nerevarine was, if anything, a tool used by Azura to kill her enemies).

Then again, killing a god doesn't make you a god. I'm trying to think of any mortal who killed a god in real-world mythology and I'm drawing a blank.

I can think of some mortals who have become immortal and they aren't considered gods or demi-gods. Just mortals who never age. For example: Utnapishtim.

Yes, Pelinal is the uncle and Morihaus is his nephew, from what I remember. I know that Shezarr, being the Cyrodiilic version of Shor, is less bloodthirsty, but he is also connected to Auri-El, as is Pelinal. Are Shor and Shezarr, in actuality, two different beings, or are they really the same being that just gets interpreted by different people differently? If Pelinal is connected to Akatosh, who I believe is Shor's enemy, wouldn't he truly be Shezarr's incarnation rather than Shor's incarnation, and is there actually a difference between the two?

I don't think gods ever get reincarnated in the bodies of mortals. I think the Nerevarine and Shezzarine alike are just normal mortals with massive egos.

Just because what appears to be Pelinal Whitestrake speaks to you in a hallucination, it doesn't mean he's actually divine. Keep in mind that any daedra who wants to manipulate you can appear before you in any form they choose.

Maybe Umaril disguised himself as Pelinal to trick you into collecting all the artifacts so he could then take them from you. Maybe he never considered the fact that those artifacts might make you able to beat him in a fight because of his massive ego.

EDIT: or maybe that visit from Pelinal happened nowhere except inside your own head. Maybe you've spent too much time killing deadra and saving the world and neglecting yourself and now your brain is just broken and you're completely insane.

Maybe that trip to the Shivering Isles has warped your mind forever. Maybe you'll just be getting visits from dead people with unfinished business for the rest of your damaged, mortal life. Sorry if you think you're actually Sheogorath now because you're really just a crazy puppet.

That's quite a conspiracy theory, denouncing one of the greatest heroes of Cyrodiilic/human history. The artifacts are given only to those with the Nine's blessing, Umaril would have no use for said artifacts, and Umaril is no Daedroth. The whole part with the prophet could not have been faked, either. He delivered the blessing of Talos to the CoC, which allowed the CoC to destroy Umaril's soul(the view was nice), perhaps even suggesting that the prophet is an avatar of Talos, along with some of his speech that may sound familiar. It seems very unlikely to have been planned by a Daedra/Umaril, but if it had been, that must have been one stupid Daedra/demi-god, and Umaril may have had a massive ego, but he knows the artifacts are not good for him, which is why he tried to stop you at one point(Aurorans in the chapel where you obtain the Mace of the Crusader).

He didn't want to take them from you to use them. He wanted to take them from you so no one could use them against him.

He needed them secured and he knew he couldn't collect them himself. So, he had some pawn collect them. But his plan backfired.

Because yes, he was very stupid. Just like the knights of the nine, who thought hiding all the artifacts in the same damn province would keep them safe forever. Just like Jagar Tharn before them, who thought hiding all the pieces of the staff on the same damn continent was good enough. He should have cast them all into the sea. (I mean, he has the power to banish the emperor to any Oblivion plane of his choosing, but he keeps the staff on Nirn? derrrr). One common trend I've found in all TES games is that I'm constantly surrounded by idiots.

Which makes the world feel real, doesn't it?

EDIT:
I'll give you another reason why Umaril is stupid.

Akatosh just finished murdering Mehrunes Dagon's avatar. Akatosh is currently pissed off and on a violent rampage and keeping a close eye on Cyrodil. Could Umaril possibly pick a worse time to start desecrating temples of the nine and leaving obvious calling cards to draw negative attention to himself?

The only reason you would desecrate a temple and kill innocent priests is to piss people off. There's no strategic value to it other than shock value. If Umaril was really interested in anything but committing suicide, he'd be a lot more subtle, like Dagon was.

Umaril might as well have just used a fire spell to etch a big message in the grass, "Hey, Akatosh, please smite me!"

He wanted to make sure no one could use them against him, but that's exactly what he helped accomplish, even though that person must have been blessed and supported by the Nine? If Pelinal really did not come to any of those who made the pilgrimage, why would Umaril be worried about someone finding the artifacts? Only Pelinal would have been able to start the new Divine Crusader on his/her quest and a door inside Vanua along with Vanua's secret location would be unlocked by Pelinal. The prophet didn't know where the items were, but he did know Pelinal would come to those he deemed worthy. Surely the Nine or the Prophet, knowing of any deception going on, would have warned their champion.

Not if the prophet was being manipulated by Umaril as well. Or maybe the prophet was just a straight-up crazy guy with no connection to the nine or Umaril at all.

He gave The Blessing of Talos.

That's a good point. I never made it that far in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Blessing_of_Talos, so I never knew.

Still could have all been a trick, though. Maybe, by destroying the dark orb, you freed Umaril and that whole final fight was fake.

:shrug: Following and destroying Umaril's soul is what it felt like.

Maybe he'll come back in another few thousand years.

Here's what really happened:

The so-called "Blessing of Talos" actually enchanted your whole body in such a way that you can never do harm to Umaril, no matter what you wield. It also corrupted your mind and made you his slave.

You destroyed the dark orb, freeing his soul, then he played dead after your little battle in the sky.

Now, you've been so thoroughly conditioned to believe that you are the true champion, that the only way to take the artifacts from you is to kill you.

So Umaril has the perfect guardian to protect the artifacts from anyone who wants to do him harm. Oh man, he got you good!

I changed my mind. Umaril's pretty smart.

You don't actually believe that, though, do you?

Of course I do.

And now, the only thing that can save you from your life of servitude to Master Umaril is the REAL blessing of Talos.

Too bad Talos resents you for freeing Umaril and thinking some wiry-haired old coot was his representation on Mundus. When literally everyone else in Anvil knew better than to listen to him.

EDIT: You'd better watch out. One day, you're gonna be forced to download a mandatory update to the game and then the true champion of Talos is gonna come to destroy you.

The Tribunal where just as powerful as any other god, when they had tapped into the heart. Almalexia and Sotha Sil beat Mehrunes Dagon. Vivec stopped the moon that Sheogorath tricked to flying into Vvardenfell, and had kept it in place for years. Granted, these are some of the only examples we have, but that's because they're gods with "good" mortal intentions. They don't want to go around beating up people. They want to help the people and help the Dunmer race.

Hamsmagoo, that's quite an awesome theory, right there. I still love the CoC just being a crazy guy who thinks he's Sheogorath aswell. What a strange delve into lore this has become.

Lorkhan=Bad. Pelinial=Bad. And the prophet wasn't Talos' representation. I can tell you why. If it was, his name would be Wulf.

Yeah, Wulf was awesomeness at its finest. And I love the idea that the CoC was just crazy! It explains why Sheogorath's quest is available so early on. It starts the slow fracturing of the CoC's mind early on, so by the time he hit the KOTN quests he's completely bonkers, and ready for a trip to the Isles.

In fact, everything that happened to the PC might have happened in his own mind.

It would be a cool easter egg in TESV to find a temple full of mentally sick people who think they're the Nerevarine, or Sheogorath, or keep babbling on about how the emperor was assassinated and gave the amulet of kings to them.

Meanwhile Uriel Septim is still alive and the game begins on his 70th birthday.

... and the Dunmer are all still yellow. They just looked blue becaus ethe past two PCs were crazy. If you notice, they're not blue in Daggerfall.

Pelinal. I like his armor.

Hams, that would be awesome, rolling on floor laughing! One of every race and gender!

And Bosmer are tall, Haskell is the real Sheogorath, dwemer made guns, Dagoth Ur was really an orc, and the Imperial Legion is a legion full of robots constantly commanded to use action "Say: Stop right there criminal scum!"

We just turned the Elder Scrolls into the twilight zone!