Well you fulfill the ultimate contract so you more than deserve leadership. Also being Listener makes you stand above all others automatically.

Astrid- favorite. Cicero - annoying while it lasts.

Thank you. That actually brought up a couple of tears.

I will admit that I think the DB by far has the most interesting members of any faction in the game. In fact none of the other factions even comes close.

It is a crying shame that most of them aren't around at the end. In fact my Dunmer assassin was hoping to marrying Gabriella. But that didn't work out.

I hate Cicero, he is annoying and creepy. I still refuse to kill him though. Gabriella is my favorite, and I'm not entirely sure why.

Gabriella's my favourite, if only because the first interaction with her cracked me up. She'd be fun to have as a follower.

Festus Krex is the least favourite, I don't like his methods. Assassins should be sneaky, dammit!

I almost picked Cicero because he's annoying, but I kinda respect his devotion to the Night Mother. Even when it's beyond creepy.

Your dislike for a character doesn't mean the character is badly written. You're talking about concept, we're judging execution - and in Astrid's case, execution is quite good.

You felt what the writers intended for you to feel. which means they succeeded. Astrid was meant to be fake. Her actions were supposed to fill you with disgust. Faithful members of the Dark Brotherhood were supposed to be outraged by Astrid's disregard for the tenets and the Night Mother. You were supposed to realize that she's a short-sighted fool.

Astrid successfully presented what the writers wanted you to see. In that she's a well-written character.

One thing I have a problem with is understanding how she could possibly do something so utterly idiotic as leading Penitus Oculatus straight into the sanctuary. It was too foolish even for her, so this is a part I consider badly written. But everything else it was in sync with Astrid's personality, so overally she's a good character. I agree with Nyctihawk - she's one of the few NPCs who feel alive and "real". Fleshed out, so to speak.

I know what you're trying to say though, Cinco. It's not that you dislike Astrid herself, but rather her part in the portrayal of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. Which means that the DB storyline is badly written, not Astrid. She is what she's supposed to be, so the writing is convincing enough - but you'd prefer it if she was someone else.

Now you remind me of people who whined that the game is broken because they can't marry Serana. Making Astrid a love interest is IMO completely irrelevant to the storyline. Seeing as Skyrim doesn't even have romance, only business contracts, I don't understand what purpose it could possibly serve.

Now Astrid's redemption, that's an interesting idea. But it's difficult to execute if the writers intended to wipe out the DB almost entirely, as we know they did (Bethesda seems to love purification through rivers of blood). If she was misguided and then returned to the right path, the story would be different. Cicero's loyalty wouldn't be as clear a counterpoint to Astrid's betrayal of the Tenets. It might have been better, who knows.

Favorites: Babette, Nazir, Festus ("If life gives you lemons, go murder a clown!"), Veezara, Cicero.

Gabriella didn't make a lasting impression, but I liked her.

Arnbjorn, I don't like his attitude but there are worse.

Astrid is my least favorite. I think she's creepy, with the way she talks. In the end I felt sorry for her though.

while I love the questline,

On topic, call me crazy but I loved Cicero, and gladly leave him alive every time (anybody that can knock wolf boy down a peg or two is ok in my book).

I'm curious as to how the Oculatus guy knows the password to the sanctuary in the first place.

If you destroy them he explains that they figured it out somehow (don't remember the exact dialogue)

I need to rethink my reply very carefully. I am more passionate about this topic above anything else in the game.

Maybe it's better I leave it as is.

This whole "They succeed" with Astrid is the utmost asinine statement I have heard in these forums.

Perhaps you are being clouded by your passion about this. Different people have different opinions, certainly, but I do not see a reason to be so black-and-white about it.

Cicero, because the rest are pretenders who aren't worthy of Sithis' mercy

I thought that the DB was the only good faction questline this game offered -- in fact, it's so good that I end up destroying the Dark Brotherhood 9 out of 10 times because I don't generally like walking down that dark of a path. As far as characters are concerned, Astrid is my favorite out of the bunch; she's the only one that has any real character development in the questline. Ironically, her husband is my least favorite for lacking not only development, but just the sense that he's there for a reason other than to fill space.

Actually he is there for nostalgia. He is a reference to the Khajiit in the DB in Oblivion who hates you immediately and never gives you a chance...until it is too late

Commander Maro states that he recently came to learn of the passphrase. He doesn't actually say how, but if I were to roleplay the scenario, I'd assume Babette betrayed the Dark Brotherhood since she's not there when you go to clear the place out.

Now that I think about it: Everything in Skyrim's DB is either crap or something from Oblivion's DB. Blade of Woe, Shadowmere, Lucien Lachance, quite a few of the quests, the dog's personality, having a sanctuary pet that normal people would hate, etc

Yeah, from what I've been hearing Oblivion's DB questline was above and beyond much of what Skyrim has to offer when concerning faction quests.

I mean, I get that but did he have to be so meh? It just seems that beyond "I am an angry werewolf who doesn't like you" he has literally no personality.

I'm not disagreeing, but the Khajiit had no personality either...but at least he sold great spells and equipment. Where as the Dog just annoys you and then gets put in his place by Cicero

Yeah the write for the DB in OB got an award for it. As he deserved for it is still the best QL I have seen in well...any game

Fair enough, and as a side note that was the point where I just loved Cicero, him putting mr. broody wolf in his place was just perfect.

And of course then theres babbette making fun of him <3 Babbette

I think Astrid is one of the most intriguing characters in the last three Elder Scrolls games. And Cicero is one of the most annoying (though he has his intriguing aspects as well).

I'm not suggesting that she isn't responsible. I am suggesting it isn't nonsensical, because it isn't. Her betrayal was born of desperation and fear, which is the intended response for someone of her position, power and relationship with that sanctuary. Of course she was stupid for doing what she did, but that's kind of the point. Her emotions got the best of her and led her to grave error, one that she acknowledges in her final moments.

Astrid's abandonment of the Five Tenets could very well be the reason why the Falkreath Sanctuary even survived. And certainly given the state of the DB in the preceeding years, I can make sound reason as to abandoning it to begin with.

Just to be clear; I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else for that matter to 'like' Astrid as a character, indeed hating her is the intended response when Bethesda wrote her character, but rather to show that there are motivations here that can be rationalised.