Definitely Daggerfall. It was the only one that broke the "OMG must save the world from ultimate evil!" cliche that I am BORED AS HELL OF.

One thing they all have in common is that they all turn out the same way every time you play them. :yawn:

And there was no good vs. evil. Even your stereotypical evil (orcs and Mannimarco) had motives that were neither good or evil. Hell, I'll just say it outright those two, along with the Underking, were the most qualified of being the 'good guys.' Mannimarco just wanted to be a god to give Arkay the finger, nothing of much, if any, consequence (sure, grandma may be used for necromatic experiments, but it's nothing but a husk of dead flesh at this point). He didn't want to rule the world, burn it, enslave it, etc. The orsimer were trying to FINALLY be accepted after years of attempted genocide against them. They didn't want to kill everyone, burn the world, enslaves anyone, etc, just have their own territory and be recognized as citizens of the empire. For the Underking, he just wanted his soul back and be put to rest. Everyone else just wanted power to rule that area, and the blades were just following orders from Uriel to stop the damn fighting between these damned city states.


Except for Daggerfall, unless you believe that since all ending have it where someone gets stompy bot counts.

Oblivion had more lore than daggerfall so why don't you shout at daggerfall instead.

I'm not wrong, and wow people call Morrowind fans elitist. :rolleyes:


:facepalm: I'm glad you guys can read. Seti's "list" was full of journals and books added by DLC.

So can we like totally talk about the games plots, like what this thread is supposed to be about! :shakehead:

@Hellmouth,

Yeah Daggerfall was exactly like that, but when you think about it Morrowind wasn't good vs evil either. Sure you were supposed to kill Dagoth Ur, but after you got to know him he wasn't completely evil, and it can be argued Azura had the bad intentions. Sure there was no choices in the main quest like DF, but it wasn't completely black and white. :shrug:

You said oblivion had 70 not including journals and some small dlc and daggerfall had 90 including journals so to finish this arguement off we need to find out how many more lore daggerfall had not including journals,I'm guessing daggerfall has around the same amount of new lore as oblivion and we should finish this off in pm's so the moderators don't lock this thread.

What's the lore stance on Mankar Camoran? He had a goal other than "muahahahaha, I must destroy the world just for the sake of being evil".

I liked Mankar Camoran (once I modded him to not just be a fluffy-haired old man in Archmage robes ) a lot. I'm curious about the factual inaccuracies in his speech (every Daedric realm in his speech was attributed to the wrong Prince), and whether that's him not actually knowing that much about Daedra, or Bethesda just slipping up and hoping nobody noticed because tthey're not going to get that time with Terence Stamp back. bliviongate: But in general, his goals weren't black-and-white evil either, just his actions.

He was a hell of a lot more malevolent than Dagoth Ur. He wasn't as complex either. They were both madmen, but Ur was way less malicious. Ur had intentions that were way more noble. What did he want to do other than make Daedra run rampant? I guess I don't really know what his plans were and you can chop that up to poor writing IMO.

Mankar wanted the Empire gone and so did Dagoth Ur, but Mankar wanted to rule and destroy to bring about a world arguable worse off, while Ur would have united the Dunmer, and eventually everybody else and made the world much more peaceful, stronger, (although uglier ) and Ur wouldn't have even made himself the ruler (unlike Camoran).

Anyway Seti I thought you didn't like Oblivion's mainquest? Why are you defending it?

I agree. However, shortly after you defeat Mankar, it's all about stopping Dagon, who can easily be viewed as an evil being since he is the prince of destruction.

Tee hee, somebody didn't read my post

Actually I did. But thanks I appreciate it. Go ahead and read my post again. I know what his intentions are now, but I didn't when I played because he is very poorly written. He seems to me like a tacked on character that Beth tried to make similar to Dagoth Ur but wasn't written as well and wasn't as dynamic. Remember high school literature, Dynamic and Flat Characters. Ur seems much more dynamic to Camorans flat.

Go on, keep putting words in my mouth and taking my posts the wrong way, it makes for a good debate.

EDIT: I'll put my edit on this post instead, that shows how different Ur and Camoran are and how Ur was a lot more morally grey:

Mankar wanted the Empire gone and so did Dagoth Ur, but Mankar wanted to rule and destroy to bring about a world arguable worse off, while Ur would have united the Dunmer, and eventually everybody else and made the world much more peaceful, stronger, (although uglier ) and Ur wouldn't have even made himself the ruler (unlike Camoran).

That's debatable.

Whats debatable? Ur would have been the high priest, which isn't technically a ruler. Yeah I'm talking out of my ass.

You know what fine, Dagoth Ur and Camoran were slightly similar, doesn't change the fact Camoran was just a watered down rewrite of Dagoth Ur.

Yeah, but this is about PLOT not STORY. The structure of the story, not it's narrative. You can throw in all that fuzzy stuff you love in the STORY part of MW.

As for plot, I'll be fair and give it more of an elaborate explanation:
You are some unknown guy dropped off in a xenophobic and backwater part of Morrowind, which is a racist and xenophobic land. There this unknown hero learns of Dagoth Ur's attempts at ruling the world, and you just may be the chosen one to do it. However, in order to confirm you are the chosen one, you are put through a series of tests and be confirmed by the daedric prince Azura. After uniting the houses and ashlanders in a xenophobic island, and completing the tests, you are named the nerevarine (the chosen one). You fight your way through nightmarish minions of a mad god, shatter his source of power, and push him off a bridge.

Cameran wasn't trying to completely consume the world in Blight for a mistaken look at the wheel, he wanted Mehrunes Dagon to complete his birthright, and destroy Mundus into order lead everything back to the Dawn. The latter is pretty much what everyone in Summerset wants to happen, go back to the Dawn. This a mythic echo of the King and Rebel that has been going on since Shor and Akatosh were slapping each other around.

Yeah I know what Camoran wants. I'm really not that stupid. But I guess I don't get what you're trying to say here that you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. I personally think Camoran was pretty similar to Dagoth Ur when it comes to characterization, just more watered down. That's my argument, not about what they planned on doing.

And as for the plot vs. story argument, I think you're just trying to make me seem wrong, which isn't nice. I see what you mean, but I am willing to bet the OP used the word plot in the title not to differentiate between plot and story but because plot is only four letters while story is five.

And I take offense to that fuzzy stuff I love comment! :rolleyes: Regardless of the difference between "story" and "plot". The elements of the story bled into the plot of Morrowind, but not enough to actually make an impact, but there nontheless. I didn't say anywhere that Daggerfall had any better of a "story" or "plot" than Morrowind so get off my back and stop trying to make me seem stupid.

So on that note.

*leaves thread*

I haven't gotten into the daggerfall main quest yet, so I'm not familiar with it. My favorite of what I have played though, Morrowind. It started out as something pretty low-key, with menial tasks that felt pretty normal. Eventually you find yourself falling upon piece after piece of the puzzle and excitement builds with every discovery.



Oblivions was nice too, but it had little mystery or surprise. You played the part of a errand boy of sorts.

EDIT: nothin' to see here.

He would have had the Dunmer united under his rule and he would have established worship of Akulakhan, which would be under his control.

Double post.

Sir-Stabs-A-Lot has a very loose interpretation of the word "fact", I think

Are we arguing over which of the villains was more evil or more cliche'd?

Because Mankor Camoran was basically Marshall Applewhite and Dagoth Ur was Darth Vader, so you tell me.

I'll be surprised if Bethesda ever comes up with an original idea, but, in general, most of the stories in Oblivion were ripped from H.P. Lovecraft and popular media, while most of the stories in Morrowind were ripped from near-eastern mythology. Which is why Morrowind is my personal preference. Because I'm an ancient history nerd and I found none of that flavor in Oblivion. More of the "forboding unholy shadow cast over the land" flavor like you get from Arena, but Diablo 2 did that best, imho. Probably because it was barely ever sunny in Diablo 2. Since it was also not timed so all the urgency was atmospheric. Wow, now I'm rambling.

By "stories" I mean the individual questlines that make up the MQ as well as the side quests.

You how some people will say Morrowind is the greatest game ever and how everything else is complete rubbish, or how some people will say Oblivion is the greatest game ever and how everything else is complete rubbish? That was a moment of the former.

Just because someone thinks a game is complete rubbish doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid. It just means that there was nothing about the game that really stood out to them.

Now, the people who call a certain game rubbish despite the fact that they still regularly play it... that's the real rubbish.