I d be more afraid of the people that have guns that shoot alot of rounds per min. U.S. tried marching men into machine guns in wwI. They had 10 000 casualties 1st battle vs german mg nests.

The British marched into German mgs in ww1 as well in one 24hr period they had over 50,000 casualties over 20 000 dead right there. They didn t even barley start moving. Bullets go through people into other people. When u stack people up vs mgs and mini guns you r going to get slaugtered. ( I can t remember the name of the battle I ll find it if you don t believe me) Tactics of war changed because of ww1.

WW1 tells me 5 000 of todays US marines set up would crush 30 000 Roman soilders even if you threw them a couple used up cowboy repeters

MGs eat large groups of men for breakfast ww1 tells me this

CL is not only weak in game, but thier idea is weak too

NCR already beat them in a lore battle

NCR has killed Brotherhood as well............alot

CL is just bad any way you slice it Mr. House I m sorry

*Sigh* You don't get it.

A. VERY few troopers are armed with automatic weapons. Most have semi-automatic rifles, lever action weapons, pistols, revolvers. Look at the Legion at Hoover Dam, they mostly use guns too, the Legion are tougher, I see them wipe out large portions of NCR troopers every time I play. The Legion are superior in training and speedier, Colonel Moore even admits to this. Plus like I said, Obsidian literally Nerfed the Legion, NCR has all the cheaty toys and etc in the game. Like that hidden perk they have, I bet if you removed that perk, they'd be on par with them. Plus, I've watched countless times where Nelson Legionaries wipe out NCR troops. Don't let your love of NCR blind your impartiallity. NCR is more tame and civilized between them and the Legion, but the Legion almost won, the ONLY reason they lost at Hoover was that Hanlon had made a last ditch ploy and bombed Boulder City, which is a pretty wreckless move all in all, but still. I'm firmly sure without The Courier, NCR would lose at The Dam, I mean, The courier has a hard time killing Lanius, and the Courier is a demi-god. So a pissant NCR trooper would be cut down just by Lanius breathing at him.

If we don t look at the game at all. NCR would be set up at the dam in defensive positions.

CL has to attack a layered defense. They have to march a large amount of men across a small area. Though cl on and in the bridge had more an better weapons than the scrubs in the wastes, I still saw many with hammers. NCR in lore is a more modern fighting force. CL in lore is using battle tacticx that were abandoned during ww1. Everyone in ww1 had a gun, that is when the world abandoned 10s of thousands of men rushing or quick marching into a set up enemy that has weapons that are built to kill hundreds and hundreds of men in a rapid repetitive fashion.

1 mini gun spraying into a large group of men would kill sooooo many of the men kn the front that the men behind them would fall over them. They would barley be able to move bring several mini guns and mgs 1000s of men would die very fast. CL would start to get scared, because there would be no where to run no where to hide they would just get cut down.

Rook, you are using real world logic, bullets kill in one shot in the real world, in Fallout, spraying into a crowd of Legionarries with a minigun will only get you swarmed and hacked to bits, then they take your minigun and kill your friends with it.

I ll look up some of these battles I speak of that forced the world to change the way the attacked. The numbers are staggering and horrifying. If the numbers of dead and wounded don t convince u that large groups of men (even if they all have guns) can t quick march into a dug in enemy that has mgs (They didn t have mini guns then either) I don t know what will. The way cl would fight in a lore battle vs the way NCR would fight in a lore battle would leave so many dead cl they could build a new dam out of dead bodies.

ROOK, YOU ARE USING REAL-WORLD LOGIC, STOP THAT.

That doesn t happen to me. Plus we r going by lore where cl has 100,000 men over there trying to go across a dam where ncr will be set up with a LAYERED defense. NCR will also have many more men than we see on the map, which means many more mgs and mini guns. I m sure in a lore battle NCR would actually use the ap rounds from the Gun Runners. NCR would also set up mgs and machine guns instead of holding them, because light mgs and mini guns are much more effective that way.

Just becauce NCR doesn t look set up in game doesn t mean they wouldn t do it in a lore battle.

I ll use the WW1 battle of Somme as an example of what would happen. Now this takes place on open ground.

Until the devs caved to the sniveling of the "hardcoe Elite" and nerfed the Sniper Rifle it took two .308 JSPs from a suppressed sniper rifle to put Lanius down. Even with the nerf and the super healing powders they gave him to Molyneux us it can still be done with five.

Battle of Somme 1916

0730 hrs July 1st
The British mounted an attack they called the "Big Push." They shot a whole bunch of artillery at the German lines to soften them up then ....orders to keep troops in UNIFORMED LINES and MARCH twards the eneny across no man s land. This.......... led to one of the biggest slaughters in military history."

"The first day with a gain of only 1.5 km the British had suffered 57,470 casualties."

Over 5 months later after between 800,000 and 1.2 million casualties from both sides the British called off the offensive. They were 3 miles short of Bapaume and Serre PART OF THE FIRST DAY S OBJECTIVES over 5 months later. The second part is done by artillery hand to hand combat small arm fire, but that 1st day was mainly done by German mgs. Look it up... The info I found this time wasn t real in depth. I ve found better info that says most of the 57,470 casualties. happened with in hours. As soon as the Germans saw 10s of thousands of men all bunched up they got em.

Spin a half a spoon of mini gun ap rounds into Lanius and see how tough he is then. He went to the corner and coward the said something about "no fair" No [censored] its not fair.

The battle of Somme is the best I can do. Remember that takes place on open ground, CL will be bottle necked on a dam looking at a layered defense with mini guns LMG s, and all other NCR weapons, with trained sniper backing them up picking them off as well.

Someone said CL had a howitzer????? They r too dumb to make it work. Fake Romans with only 1 in 4 having guns will not march through a bottle neck vs a modern military and take anything.

They will march to their death. If cl takes the dam fo is bs

I'm split between Mr. House and the NCR, but I'd say I'm more behind the NCR than Mr. House.

While Mr. House's goals and ideals are admirable, he places too much emphasis on being "The Boss" and doesn't seem like he can be reasoned with.

The NCR on the other hand, despite their flaws are more reasonable and give off the impression that they are willing to improve themselves.

If I were able to under the independent option I'd cut a deal with the NCR similar to what Mr. House had going with them. I'm sure if Mr. House wasn't a stubborn old fart that there would have been a chance to talk the NCR into keeping their end of the deal at the end of the game.

BOS. Wasn't too keen on the game until I found/joined/got my armour from them. Then it was like, "right, now let's PLAY this thing" lol. Silly isn't it.

Of course, being a BOS, the NCR, Legion and House all had to die . muahaah...

I think me and Yes Man make a good team if that counts as a faction.

In lore they are the superior force between them.
They said that the next patch was gonna bring more balance to the game, I sure hope they patch Legion too.

Legion Toughness, perk for all legionarries above recruits, +30% DR. One can hope?

I would say 10% for prime and veteran legionaris/decani, explorers and assassins. And 20% for centurion and praetorian guards.

Anyway, I think that people are not taking slavery enough into perspective. Though I think that they are too rough on them, can you just imagine how they were probably living in Arizona, Utah et cetera?

After all "How much wood can a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?" right?

No, NCR Rangers get 30% DR do to Ranger Toughness, and Charlie was wiped out my Legion, so if anything, 30% for the lower Legionarries, 40% for Cents and Praetorians.

+10% running speed and +20% attacking speed for all legionnaires as well.
+20% running and +30% for centurions and praetorian guard.

I greatly beg the differ. They NCR would have not been defeated easily. They are still a army and a powerful army none the less. Who knows what would have happen the NCR could have won but suffered great losses. Either way you look at it each side is going to be injured. Dont make assumptions when you dont look at the whole picture.

I respect people's opinions, but these people talking about how weak the Legion is are being idiots. The only reason why NCR troopers even stand a chance against recruit legionaries is because they have much higher DT and better weaponry. If they both used the same armor and weapons, the recruit legionaries would definitely win.

Recruit legionary:
6ST, 5PE, 6EN, 4CH, 4IN, 5AG, 5LK
Hit Points: 95
DT 7 → 8
Melee Weapons: 48
Guns: 46
Unarmed: 48

NCR trooper:
5ST, 5PE, 5EN, 5CH, 5IN, 5AG, 5LK
Health: 50
DT: 10 → 12
Explosives: 46
Melee Weapons: 46
Guns: 46

And that is a recruit legionary, not a prime or veteran. NCR troopers are basically the bulk of the NCR military, aside from the rangers, vet rangers and heavy troopers.

NCR troopers are weak, they're scared, they have no backbone to them. As soon as they get the chance, most of them would go home or to The Strip.
Legionaries are devoted to Caesar and would rather DIE than run away. The NCR has plenty of these recruits because they take land so fast. Caesars Legion has conquered 86 tribes thanks to Caesar's superior tactics.
After what the troopers hear about what the Legion are capable of, they would be terrified and probably run off.
Just yesterday I see a Legion patrol wiping out a NCR patrol near Wolfhorn Ranch (without me interfering).
That's why I stick with the Legion. Even though they are so outnumbered in Fallout: New Vegas.

I'd rather vet rangers just got a nerf than making centurions also stupidly annoying to fight. Also do regular non-vet rangers get the perk?
(favorite faction House btw, MK II securitrons mow down both Legion and NCR troops, living in space beats an irradiated wasteland whether it's free or safe, and the only thing I dislike about House is that he's really smug sometimes. Although if the game was set in Arizona and CL was just conquering tribes still, I'd support them)

I think so, and all i want is for Cents to be stronger physically than Ranger Vets, like they are supposed to be.

They also need to add more Centurions in the Mojave. The only ones I have ever seen is Phoenix at Cottonwood Cove, and the one with Legion assassins.