[relz] Fcom Convergence and UFCOM [relz] : IV - Oblivion

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:04 am

There is nothing wrong. I am just trying to make my BSA Loading page, the general one, here: http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/intro/archiveinvalidation, as "full" as possible. I am not modifying the any of the guides to suggest that alternative, but there is a link to the BSA page on the relevant pages if the users want to know about archive invalidation and whatnot.

The loading order for BSAs is really confusing me. I thought it was all date based with BSAs sharing the same data loaded in alphabetical order. Is that not the case. Does the sArchiveList have a different set of rules?

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:14 am

You can quote me if you like. I'd add a note that load balancing is a power user option, and if you don't understand it, you shouldn't attempt it.

sarchivelist limit is the standard 256 characters, I think. It's all about the 8-bit issue.

As far as I know for BSAs, the actual order of loading doesn't matter. Oblivion probably loads the BSAs either alphabetically, or by the same order as the ESPs that call them and then alphabetically within that sequence. What it does, however, is create a map of resources for the game to use while it's loading the bsas, and each resource is given priority based on the file date (with all resources in the bsas being considered to have the same date as the bsa). So, if it finds the same resource in multiple BSAs, and/or loose in the DATA folder, the map ends up pointing to the most recent dated version of that resource.

The upshot of all this is that ~~if you stick a babelfish in your ear~~ the original Oblivion BSAs should have the oldest date, the BSAs from the DLCs should be next, any mod added BSAs should follow them and they should all have an old enough date to not interfere with the loose files. (The DLC BSAs really shouldn't matter, but theres a chance Beth added some updated files in there).

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:42 pm

Okay, just confirming the date thing there. At least I am not as confused as I could've been...???? Leaving that, the whole 256 thing is not very new either. Thank you for confirming all of this. I will quote you on both counts, about the benefits and the warning.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:36 pm

For now, follow the http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/walkthroughs/fcomguide from start to finish, and before you go on to the First Run Guide (the "Next Step" after the last step of the FCOM-specific guide), post your load order here so that we can check it.

Edit: Before you get to the issue of whether or not the game is running properly, you need to be able to properly install mods. You are not there yet. In fact, read the http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installmods page before you follow the FCOM Installation Guide because you are clearly not understanding many of the basics of the mod installation process.

I got a little caught up in the install and moved past the First Run Guide. I'm currently on step 23 of that page. How's this look:

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
02 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
03 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
04 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
05 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
06 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.5]
07 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
08 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.0]
0B Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
0C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
0D Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
0E Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
0F FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.esp
10 FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
11 FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
12 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
13 Knights.esp
14 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
15 DLCHorseArmor.esp
16 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
17 DLCOrrery.esp
18 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
19 DLCVileLair.esp
1A DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
1B DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
1C DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
1D DLCSpellTomes.esp
1E DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
1F DLCThievesDen.esp
20 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
21 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]
22 Oblivion WarCry.esp [Version 1.085a]
23 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
24 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3]
25 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.33]
26 OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]
27 OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]
28 OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp [Version 1.0]
29 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
2A FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp [Version 0.9.9beta2]
2B DLCFrostcrag.esp
2C DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
++ Temp_OMOBS_BattleAxe.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Bow.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Claymore.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Dagger.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Longsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Mace.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Shortsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_WarAxe.esp
2D Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:12 am

Remove 22 Oblivion WarCry.esp [Version 1.085a]. What are all of those "Temp_XX" plugins? None of the other mods in your load order are mergeable (can be deactivated)? Can't you deactivate the OMOBs plugins, or at least one of them, if not two? The Fran weapon fix can definitely be deactivated. Also, rerun BOSS because Knights is in the wrong place.

Edit: You have not completely installed OOO 1.34b5. I think you need to right-click on the OOO 1.34b5 package and choose "anneal." In fact, post your package list here. (Right-click on the "Packages" tab and choose "List packages"...?)

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:17 pm

22 Oblivion WarCry.esp [Version 1.085a]
23 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp

Error here. You seem to have the German and English versions of Oblivion WarCry installed.

Also, you may be missing the 1.085b patch (unless you only applied that to the EV)

26 OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]
27 OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]

Should be imported using the Stats tag, not active, to avoid conflicts.

++ Temp_OMOBS_BattleAxe.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Bow.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Claymore.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Dagger.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Longsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Mace.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Shortsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_WarAxe.esp

These are new to me, may I ask where you got them?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:15 am

Remove 22 Oblivion WarCry.esp [Version 1.085a]. What are all of those "Temp_XX" plugins? None of the other mods in your load order are mergeable (can be deactivated)? Can't you deactivate the OMOBs plugins, or at least one of them, if not two? The Fran weapon fix can definitely be deactivated. Also, rerun BOSS because Knights is in the wrong place.

Edit: You have not completely installed OOO 1.34b5. I think you need to right-click on the OOO 1.34b5 package and choose "anneal." In fact, post your package list here. (Right-click on the "Packages" tab and choose "List packages"...?)

I've fixed Oblivion WarCry. The Temp_XX addons I don't remember where I've found. I don't see a Nexus tag at the end of its folder and I'm usually pretty good with that. I remember I picked it up when I got OMOBS and it is called OMOBS Weapon Stats in the readme. I don't know about deactivating any mods at this point. I'm still figuring out what it is Bash Patch does. Pretty much just following your webpage's directions at this point.

22 Oblivion WarCry.esp [Version 1.085a]
23 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp

Error here. You seem to have the German and English versions of Oblivion WarCry installed.

Also, you may be missing the 1.085b patch (unless you only applied that to the EV)

26 OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]
27 OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]

Should be imported using the Stats tag, not active, to avoid conflicts.

++ Temp_OMOBS_BattleAxe.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Bow.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Claymore.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Dagger.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Longsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Mace.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_Shortsword.esp
++ Temp_OMOBS_WarAxe.esp

These are new to me, may I ask where you got them?

How do I use the Stats tag? I'm guessing that's my next lesson. Here's my archive list that Tom asked for. I can do my mod list in the next post if I'm up to snuff. The archive list:

000 - Unofficial Oblivion Patch-5296.7z (8565AA09)
001 - Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-10739.7z (E51F5C20)
002 - Unofficial Oblivion Mods Patch-9969.7z (DB4D769A)
003 - Francesco's Levelled Creatures and Items-2518.7z (CB3586DE)
004 - OOO-BAIN-15256.7z (CA383AA6)
005 - Oblivion WarCry.7z (797B453D)
006 - Armementarium Complete-18417.7z (98472B68)
007 - Artifacts-25309.7z (AC50F993)
008 - MMM-BAIN-11784.7z (D8777C02)
009 - Cobl-21104.7z (BFECAEE3)
010 - FCOM Convergence-BAIN-12249.7z (2CC59FA0)
011 - OMOBS-28537.7z (EB1E2FED)
012 - OMOBS Weapon Stats.7z (0CB2DDCC)
013 - FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.7z (97FA1AAF)
014 - FCOM Entropic Order Rebalance.7z (7EB6028A)
015 - UFCOM.7z (62B956CB)
016 - ==FCOM End==.7z (00000000)
017 - ==Body Replacers End==.7z (00000000)
018 - ==Textures End==.7z (00000000)
019 - ==Tweaks and Immersion End==.7z (00000000)
020 - ==Spells and Items End==.7z (00000000)
021 - Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm Release 1.9.7z (33C4BED4)
022 - All Natural-18305.7z (CF9146DB)
023 - Animated Window Lighting System - Meshes-19628.7z (0359CC44)
024 - AWLS - Brumbek Mixed Textures-19628.7z (F5840FE4)
025 - Bag of Holding.7z (0FAA1D77)
026 - Better Night Sky-2234.7z (E20B81A0)
027 - Better Potion Bottles.7z (3E649AB4)
028 - Blink.7z (96B4D247)
029 - Drop Lit Torches in Combat-3429.7z (A7EDA3DA)
030 - Elven Map for Shivering Isles-16640.7z (5CBAE31E)
031 - Elven Map Redux-3002.7z (9895E18B)
032 - Enhanced Economy-25078.7z (330199A5)
033 - Enhanced Vegetation - High Res Textures-23783.7z (68E73E25)
034 - Enhanced Water HD for SI-17345.7z (6707581C)
035 - Enhanced Water-8011.7z (022A9337)
036 - Ethereal Eyes Universal Edition-7914.7z (A36B2B72)
037 - EVE for Armamentarium-BAIN-24078.7z (2EC6ADAA)
038 - EVE for Artifacts-24078.7z (B925A6FE)
039 - EVE for Francesco-BAIN-24078.7z (736691AE)
040 - EVE for Martigen Monster Mod-BAIN-24078.7z (C5BFDAE2)
041 - EVE for Oscuro Oblivion Overhaul-BAIN-24078.7z (1FEE0F34)
042 - EVE HGEC Bodystock and Clothing-BAIN-24078.7z (940A7AF2)
043 - EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.7z (761D67A5)
044 - Facial Textures by Enayla-9534.7z (03CF7BCA)
045 - Frostcrag Reborn.7z (8FEED93A)
046 - Initial Glow-5138.7z (E03EBA12)
047 - Kafeis Better Amulet Replacer-4126.7z (4F9E1B7A)
048 - Kafeis Better Ring Replacer-4107.7z (4CBE7B70)
049 - KD Circlets for OOO-10670.7z (4F953134)
050 - LAME-BAIN.7z (5F151FEF)
051 - LowPoly Grass for SI-5434.7z (2B8D5B3F)
052 - Midas Magic-9562.7z (4BF06167)
053 - Natural Faces-1965.7z (B8029D49)
054 - Optimised Distant Land MAX-15278.7z (59C4AF31)
055 - Quarl's Texture Pack 3.7z (7DC4659E)
056 - Quiet Feet MAX-2331.7z (A5EAAF5A)
057 - Real Wood Road Signs-2542.7z (9FF09A61)
058 - Ren's Beauty Pack-443.7z (CCC4CECC)
059 - Rune Skulls-9412.7z (4D3A03F3)
060 - Spell Delete.7z (EC0E71D1)
061 - Stealth Overhaul-6359.7z (5A61BA55)
062 - Streamline-BAIN-22170.7z (592E2C96)
063 - Super Hotkeys-22326.7z (88D642E8)
064 - Thievery.7z (9E7BCF78)
065 - TNR All Races.7z (713E89A0)
066 - ==Last==

I haven't installed anything past 016 - ==FCOM End==.7z (00000000). Before that file I havent' installed COBL yet since I wsa following http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/fcomloadorder.html 's basic load order and it didn't include COBL.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:04 pm

Resort your BAIN packages. You can use http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/lists/mybainlist as a reference. The ordering of the groups is explained here: http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installmods. Your package list should reflect that order, or something close to it.

Edit: Let me try to decorate my list a bit so that it is easier to navigate...

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:09 pm

Am I resorting bacause I'm moving on to the next step where I install the rest of my mods?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:02 pm

No. The sorting step was step 3 I though. Choosing the config is step 4. Installing is at the end of step 4. Sorting your load order and rebuilding the bashed patch are step 5. This should have been done already. Also, move all of your sorted archives below the "Last" marker.

Edit: I have colored in my package list a bit. Now you should be able to see how the Installing Mods installation section matches up with it. Your packages should be in a similar arrangement.

Edit: The http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/walkthroughs/baininstallguide/organize may be helpful as well. The package list there needs to be updated, but I will get to that eventually...

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:23 pm

I see. Another case of two steps forward, one back. At least I don't have to reinstall this time, lol. I'll dutifully take my step back and resort, then. I don't understand the "Last" marker, though. Shouldn't that be at the bottom?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:55 pm

No, haha. The "Last" marker...I am not quite sure why it has that name, but you can think of it as the marker for the last...unsorted archive marker. Archives newly added to the Bash Installers folder are added above it (given lower priority.) Putting all of your mods below the marker keeps them separate from the new additions. It would be even worse if the marker was in the middle of all of your sorted packages. That is why I added that tip near the top of the organization page...

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:22 pm

Okay, I moved my FCOM mods below "Last." I don't know how important it is to sort my non-FCOM stuff now when I still have to do FCOM expanded before I can even think of loading my personal selections. I'm not sure what to do now, though. I followed Shikishima's install order from this ( http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1079933-50-steps-to-ctd-almost-free-fcom-game/ ) page. Are you saying I should be using another load format? Not much has changed, but this is my new BAIN load list (not very different as I just moved them using "Last" but I'm hoping to save a post):

Bain Packages:
000 - ==Body Replacers End==.7z (00000000)
001 - ==Textures End==.7z (00000000)
002 - ==Tweaks and Immersion End==.7z (00000000)
003 - ==Spells and Items End==.7z (00000000)
004 - Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm Release 1.9.7z (33C4BED4)
005 - All Natural-18305.7z (CF9146DB)
006 - Animated Window Lighting System - Meshes-19628.7z (0359CC44)
007 - AWLS - Brumbek Mixed Textures-19628.7z (F5840FE4)
008 - Bag of Holding.7z (0FAA1D77)
009 - Better Night Sky-2234.7z (E20B81A0)
010 - Better Potion Bottles.7z (3E649AB4)
011 - Blink.7z (96B4D247)
012 - Drop Lit Torches in Combat-3429.7z (A7EDA3DA)
013 - Elven Map for Shivering Isles-16640.7z (5CBAE31E)
014 - Elven Map Redux-3002.7z (9895E18B)
015 - Enhanced Economy-25078.7z (330199A5)
016 - Enhanced Vegetation - High Res Textures-23783.7z (68E73E25)
017 - Enhanced Water HD for SI-17345.7z (6707581C)
018 - Enhanced Water-8011.7z (022A9337)
019 - Ethereal Eyes Universal Edition-7914.7z (A36B2B72)
020 - EVE for Armamentarium-BAIN-24078.7z (2EC6ADAA)
021 - EVE for Artifacts-24078.7z (B925A6FE)
022 - EVE for Francesco-BAIN-24078.7z (736691AE)
023 - EVE for Martigen Monster Mod-BAIN-24078.7z (C5BFDAE2)
024 - EVE for Oscuro Oblivion Overhaul-BAIN-24078.7z (1FEE0F34)
025 - EVE HGEC Bodystock and Clothing-BAIN-24078.7z (940A7AF2)
026 - EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.7z (761D67A5)
027 - Facial Textures by Enayla-9534.7z (03CF7BCA)
028 - Frostcrag Reborn.7z (8FEED93A)
029 - Initial Glow-5138.7z (E03EBA12)
030 - Kafeis Better Amulet Replacer-4126.7z (4F9E1B7A)
031 - Kafeis Better Ring Replacer-4107.7z (4CBE7B70)
032 - KD Circlets for OOO-10670.7z (4F953134)
033 - LAME-BAIN.7z (5F151FEF)
034 - LowPoly Grass for SI-5434.7z (2B8D5B3F)
035 - Midas Magic-9562.7z (4BF06167)
036 - Natural Faces-1965.7z (B8029D49)
037 - Optimised Distant Land MAX-15278.7z (59C4AF31)
038 - Quarl's Texture Pack 3.7z (7DC4659E)
039 - Quiet Feet MAX-2331.7z (A5EAAF5A)
040 - Real Wood Road Signs-2542.7z (9FF09A61)
041 - Ren's Beauty Pack-443.7z (CCC4CECC)
042 - Rune Skulls-9412.7z (4D3A03F3)
043 - Spell Delete.7z (EC0E71D1)
044 - Stealth Overhaul-6359.7z (5A61BA55)
045 - Streamline-BAIN-22170.7z (592E2C96)
046 - Super Hotkeys-22326.7z (88D642E8)
047 - Thievery.7z (9E7BCF78)
048 - TNR All Races.7z (713E89A0)
049 - ==Last==
050 - Unofficial Oblivion Patch-5296.7z (8565AA09)
051 - Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-10739.7z (E51F5C20)
052 - Unofficial Oblivion Mods Patch-9969.7z (DB4D769A)
053 - Francesco's Levelled Creatures and Items-2518.7z (CB3586DE)
054 - OOO-BAIN-15256.7z (CA383AA6)
055 - Oblivion WarCry.7z (797B453D)
056 - Armementarium Complete-18417.7z (98472B68)
057 - Artifacts-25309.7z (AC50F993)
058 - MMM-BAIN-11784.7z (D8777C02)
059 - Cobl-21104.7z (BFECAEE3)
060 - FCOM Convergence-BAIN-12249.7z (2CC59FA0)
061 - OMOBS-28537.7z (EB1E2FED)
062 - OMOBS Weapon Stats.7z (0CB2DDCC)
063 - FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.7z (97FA1AAF)
064 - FCOM Entropic Order Rebalance.7z (7EB6028A)
065 - UFCOM.7z (62B956CB)
066 - ==FCOM End==.7z (00000000)

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:42 pm

I meant that you should move ALL packages below the "Last" marker. The only packages that should be above that marker are newly-added archives. You should be sorting all of these packages, so they should all be below the last marker. Please, use the resources I linked earlier to sort the 64 packages (and headers) you have there.

Edit: Blade of Mercy's guide is good for savvy users, but it is does not give detailed explanation of why his installation order is what it is. Please, follow the installation order I have provided because it will make it easier for you to sort packages you download in the future. It is important that you understand why the order is what it is instead of just copying someone else.

Edit: I have been through the conflict lists for FCOM thoroughly amongst those ~700 packages I have in my Installers Tab, and I can assure you that if you follow that ordering, you will have FCOM installed in the proper order.

Edit: From the top of Blade of Mercy's 50 Steps Guide...

FIRST WARNING: Shikishima says this is NOT a newcomer friendly description.
While I agree with him, I think even old hands need refreshing their memory and one-stop mod shop, especially during re-installation.

For beginners he rather recommends to start with dev_akm's FCOM Installation Guide
This is is step-by-step account about how I do it.
I provide links to the toolls but it is up to you to read and learn how to using them. Or not.

TESIV:POSItive itself and the guides on that site are intended to help even the newest user install mods. As I said before, the guides are basically all-inclusive, and you should only need to reference outside sources when they are linked at the relevant step. There was no reason to refer to Blade of Mercy's guides. The steps are not going to line up properly, and you have been working out of order from the guide's instructions. Please, stick to the what is written in the guide until you are more comfortable with mods. I do not know if you read the welcome page, but I started creating that site after reading through Blade of Mercy's guide. The "First Run Guide" is an extensive elaboration of the last two steps and some... I am in no way against following that guide, in general, but it is not a guide that teaches new mod users how to install mods, and you need to know at least that, before you can install FCOM properly.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:42 am

I meant that you should move ALL packages below the "Last" marker. The only packages that should be above that marker are newly-added archives. You should be sorting all of these packages, so they should all be below the last marker. Please, use the resources I linked earlier to sort the 64 packages (and headers) you have there.

Edit: Blade of Mercy's guide is good for savvy users, but it is does not give detailed explanation of why his installation order is what it is. Please, follow the installation order I have provided because it will make it easier for you to sort packages you download in the future. It is important that you understand why the order is what it is instead of just copying someone else.

Edit: I have been through the conflict lists for FCOM thoroughly amongst those ~700 packages I have in my Installers Tab, and I can assure you that if you follow that ordering, you will have FCOM installed in the proper order.

Edit: From the top of Blade of Mercy's 50 Steps Guide...

TESIV:POSItive itself and the guides on that site are intended to help even the newest user install mods. As I said before, the guides are basically all-inclusive, and you should only need to reference outside sources when they are linked at the relevant step. There was no reason to refer to Blade of Mercy's guides. The steps are not going to line up properly, and you have been working out of order from the guide's instructions. Please, stick to the what is written in the guide until you are more comfortable with mods. I do not know if you read the welcome page, but I started creating that site after reading through Blade of Mercy's guide. The "First Run Guide" is an extensive elaboration of the last two steps and some... I am in no way against following that guide, in general, but it is not a guide that teaches new mod users how to install mods, and you need to know at least that, before you can install FCOM properly.

I'm with you, Tom. You're right that I've been bouncing from guide to guide. I'll try to stick with you from here on out. The only change I made to your ordering method is to include a Spells section. I had enough that I figured they deserved their own space. I put it right below Items. Here's the new list:

Bain Packages:
000 - ==Last==
001 - Streamline-BAIN-22170.7z (592E2C96)
002 - Quiet Feet MAX-2331.7z (A5EAAF5A)
003 - ==Utilities End==.7z (00000000)
004 - Armementarium Complete-18417.7z (98472B68)
005 - Artifacts-25309.7z (AC50F993)
006 - Cobl-21104.7z (BFECAEE3)
007 - Drop Lit Torches in Combat-3429.7z (A7EDA3DA)
008 - Enhanced Economy-25078.7z (330199A5)
009 - Optimised Distant Land MAX-15278.7z (59C4AF31)
010 - Stealth Overhaul-6359.7z (5A61BA55)
011 - LAME-BAIN.7z (5F151FEF)
012 - ==Game Tweaks End==.7z (00000000)
013 - TNR All Races.7z (713E89A0)
014 - ==Companions & NPCs End==.7z (00000000)
015 - ==Animations End==.7z (00000000)
016 - Frostcrag Reborn.7z (8FEED93A)
017 - Thievery.7z (9E7BCF78)
018 - ==New Buildings and Locations End==.7z (00000000)
019 - Rune Skulls-9412.7z (4D3A03F3)
020 - Bag of Holding.7z (0FAA1D77)
021 - Better Potion Bottles.7z (3E649AB4)
022 - KD Circlets for OOO-10670.7z (4F953134)
023 - ==New Items End==.7z (00000000)
024 - Midas Magic-9562.7z (4BF06167)
025 - Blink.7z (96B4D247)
026 - Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm Release 1.9.7z (33C4BED4)
027 - ==Spells End==.7z (00000000)
028 - Quarl's Texture Pack 3.7z (7DC4659E)
029 - Kafeis Better Amulet Replacer-4126.7z (4F9E1B7A)
030 - Kafeis Better Ring Replacer-4107.7z (4CBE7B70)
031 - Enhanced Vegetation - High Res Textures-23783.7z (68E73E25)
032 - LowPoly Grass for SI-5434.7z (2B8D5B3F)
033 - Real Wood Road Signs-2542.7z (9FF09A61)
034 - ==Big Mesh Replacers End==.7z (00000000)
035 - Unofficial Oblivion Patch-5296.7z (8565AA09)
036 - Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-10739.7z (E51F5C20)
037 - Unofficial Oblivion Mods Patch-9969.7z (DB4D769A)
038 - ==Official Add-ons (DLCs) & Unofficial Official Patches End==.7z (00000000)
039 - ==Quests End==.7z (00000000)
040 - Oblivion WarCry.7z (797B453D)
041 - Francesco's Levelled Creatures and Items-2518.7z (CB3586DE)
042 - OOO-BAIN-15256.7z (CA383AA6)
043 - MMM-BAIN-11784.7z (D8777C02)
044 - FCOM Convergence-BAIN-12249.7z (2CC59FA0)
045 - OMOBS-28537.7z (EB1E2FED)
046 - OMOBS Weapon Stats.7z (0CB2DDCC)
047 - FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.7z (97FA1AAF)
048 - FCOM Entropic Order Rebalance.7z (7EB6028A)
049 - UFCOM.7z (62B956CB)
050 - ==Overhauls & Creature-Adding End==.7z (00000000)
051 - All Natural-18305.7z (CF9146DB)
052 - ==City & World Aethetics End==.7z (00000000)
053 - Spell Delete.7z (EC0E71D1)
054 - Super Hotkeys-22326.7z (88D642E8)
055 - ==User Interface End==.7z (00000000)
056 - ==Extended Game Tweaks End==.7z (00000000)
057 - Animated Window Lighting System - Meshes-19628.7z (0359CC44)
058 - AWLS - Brumbek Mixed Textures-19628.7z (F5840FE4)
059 - Better Night Sky-2234.7z (E20B81A0)
060 - Elven Map for Shivering Isles-16640.7z (5CBAE31E)
061 - Elven Map Redux-3002.7z (9895E18B)
062 - Enhanced Water HD for SI-17345.7z (6707581C)
063 - Enhanced Water-8011.7z (022A9337)
064 - Natural Faces-1965.7z (B8029D49)
065 - ==Textures End==.7z (00000000)
066 - Initial Glow-5138.7z (E03EBA12)
067 - ==Other Replacers End==.7z (00000000)
068 - EVE for Armamentarium-BAIN-24078.7z (2EC6ADAA)
069 - EVE for Artifacts-24078.7z (B925A6FE)
070 - EVE for Francesco-BAIN-24078.7z (736691AE)
071 - EVE for Martigen Monster Mod-BAIN-24078.7z (C5BFDAE2)
072 - EVE for Oscuro Oblivion Overhaul-BAIN-24078.7z (1FEE0F34)
073 - EVE HGEC Bodystock and Clothing-BAIN-24078.7z (940A7AF2)
074 - EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.7z (761D67A5)
075 - Ren's Beauty Pack-443.7z (CCC4CECC)
076 - ==Cosmetic Mods & Body Replacers End==.7z (00000000)
077 - Ethereal Eyes Universal Edition-7914.7z (A36B2B72)
078 - Facial Textures by Enayla-9534.7z (03CF7BCA)
079 - ==Character Texture Replacers End==.7z (00000000)

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:07 pm

This is a mesh replacer: 009 - Optimised Distant Land MAX-15278.7z (59C4AF31)

You do not want your little mesh/texture replacers installed before the UOPs. http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/lists/mybainlist This may just be me, but it is easier to identify categories with the labels at the front instead of at the end...

029 - Kafeis Better Amulet Replacer-4126.7z (4F9E1B7A) <-- This contains meshes
030 - Kafeis Better Ring Replacer-4107.7z (4CBE7B70) <-- This contains meshes
031 - Enhanced Vegetation - High Res Textures-23783.7z (68E73E25) <-- I have this in Aesthetic overhauls as it is not a replacer (does not overwrite original files.)
032 - LowPoly Grass for SI-5434.7z (2B8D5B3F) <-- This contains meshes
033 - Real Wood Road Signs-2542.7z (9FF09A61) <-- This contains meshes?

Edit: From the Installing Mods page...

14. Texture Replacers

* Content: textures (some also contain new meshes or plugins)

Edit: more sort suggestions...
064 - Natural Faces-1965.7z (B8029D49) <-- move this to the first spot in your cosmetic mods section

These are not considered texture replacers...AWLS certainly is not a texture replacer. Did you see that it was in a different section in my package list?
057 - Animated Window Lighting System - Meshes-19628.7z (0359CC44) <-- City & World aesthetics
058 - AWLS - Brumbek Mixed Textures-19628.7z (F5840FE4) <-- place after AWLS
060 - Elven Map for Shivering Isles-16640.7z (5CBAE31E) <-- UI mods
061 - Elven Map Redux-3002.7z (9895E18B) <-- UI mod
062 - Enhanced Water HD for SI-17345.7z (6707581C) <-- City & World aesthetics
063 - Enhanced Water-8011.7z (022A9337) <-- City & World aesthetics

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:57 am

@Michael neither you or Tomlong is going to enjoy what I'm about to say, but your a newbie to mods and at this stage I don't really feel you should yet be playing with BAIN. To install FCOM there is absolutely no need.
Very strongly I urge you to restart your install following the download links I've supplied in the opening post.
Everything you need for a basic install of the mod is found there. Download, install, run BOSS, address any issues it reports, make your bashed patch and then if necessary come back and tell us of anything your still having trouble with.

Let's not muck about with expanded load orders, 50 steps, or any other guide. It's not needed at this stage of a mod users life. From what I'm reading between the lines it's all just adding to any confusion.
Trust me when I say thousands of users have followed the layout as is in the opening post with no problems.

Let's get the mod working before playing with BAIN or adding a multitude of other stuff.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:27 pm

I caught a couple errors myself. I think it's cleaner now. I moved the footer to become headers. If you like it that way it's fine with me. You're the one busting his hump to help a noob get a nicely modded Oblivion. Will I have difficulty adding mods if I have room after I pare down the FCOM install? I'm guessing not but I'm just wondering. I cut about 10-20 mods out of my initial selection when I saw my first, aborted install had 219 mods! Here's the new list:

Bain Packages:
000 - ==Last==
001 - ==Utilities==.7z (00000000)
002 - Streamline-BAIN-22170.7z (592E2C96)
003 - Quiet Feet MAX-2331.7z (A5EAAF5A)
004 - ==Game Tweaks==.7z (00000000)
005 - Cobl-21104.7z (BFECAEE3)
006 - Drop Lit Torches in Combat-3429.7z (A7EDA3DA)
007 - Enhanced Economy-25078.7z (330199A5)
008 - Stealth Overhaul-6359.7z (5A61BA55)
009 - LAME-BAIN.7z (5F151FEF)
010 - ==Companions & NPCs==.7z (00000000)
011 - TNR All Races.7z (713E89A0)
012 - ==Animations==.7z (00000000)
013 - ==New Buildings and Locations==.7z (00000000)
014 - Frostcrag Reborn.7z (8FEED93A)
015 - Thievery.7z (9E7BCF78)
016 - ==New Items==.7z (00000000)
017 - Rune Skulls-9412.7z (4D3A03F3)
018 - Bag of Holding.7z (0FAA1D77)
019 - Better Potion Bottles.7z (3E649AB4)
020 - KD Circlets for OOO-10670.7z (4F953134)
021 - Armementarium Complete-18417.7z (98472B68)
022 - Artifacts-25309.7z (AC50F993)
023 - ==Spells==.7z (00000000)
024 - Midas Magic-9562.7z (4BF06167)
025 - Blink.7z (96B4D247)
026 - Akatosh Mount By Saiden Storm Release 1.9.7z (33C4BED4)
027 - ==Big Mesh Replacers==.7z (00000000)
028 - Quarl's Texture Pack 3.7z (7DC4659E)
029 - Optimised Distant Land MAX-15278.7z (59C4AF31)
030 - ==Official Add-ons (DLCs) & Unofficial Official Patches==.7z (00000000)
031 - Unofficial Oblivion Patch-5296.7z (8565AA09)
032 - Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch-10739.7z (E51F5C20)
033 - Battlehorn Castle.7z (AD5AF277)
034 - Unofficial Oblivion Mods Patch-9969.7z (DB4D769A)
035 - ==Quests==.7z (00000000)
036 - ==Overhauls & Creature-Adding==.7z (00000000)
037 - Oblivion WarCry.7z (797B453D)
038 - Francesco's Levelled Creatures and Items-2518.7z (CB3586DE)
039 - OOO-BAIN-15256.7z (CA383AA6)
040 - MMM-BAIN-11784.7z (D8777C02)
041 - FCOM Convergence-BAIN-12249.7z (2CC59FA0)
042 - OMOBS-28537.7z (EB1E2FED)
043 - OMOBS Weapon Stats.7z (0CB2DDCC)
044 - FranDarkSeducerWeapFix.7z (97FA1AAF)
045 - FCOM Entropic Order Rebalance.7z (7EB6028A)
046 - UFCOM.7z (62B956CB)
047 - ==City & World Aethetics==.7z (00000000)
048 - All Natural-18305.7z (CF9146DB)
049 - Enhanced Vegetation - High Res Textures-23783.7z (68E73E25)
050 - Animated Window Lighting System - Meshes-19628.7z (0359CC44)
051 - AWLS - Brumbek Mixed Textures-19628.7z (F5840FE4)
052 - Enhanced Water HD for SI-17345.7z (6707581C)
053 - Enhanced Water-8011.7z (022A9337)
054 - ==User Interface==.7z (00000000)
055 - Spell Delete.7z (EC0E71D1)
056 - Super Hotkeys-22326.7z (88D642E8)
057 - Elven Map for Shivering Isles-16640.7z (5CBAE31E)
058 - Elven Map Redux-3002.7z (9895E18B)
059 - ==Extended Game Tweaks==.7z (00000000)
060 - ==Textures==.7z (00000000)
061 - Better Night Sky-2234.7z (E20B81A0)
062 - LowPoly Grass for SI-5434.7z (2B8D5B3F)
063 - Real Wood Road Signs-2542.7z (9FF09A61)
064 - Kafeis Better Amulet Replacer-4126.7z (4F9E1B7A)
065 - Kafeis Better Ring Replacer-4107.7z (4CBE7B70)
066 - ==Other Replacers==.7z (00000000)
067 - Initial Glow-5138.7z (E03EBA12)
068 - ==Cosmetic Mods & Body Replacers==.7z (00000000)
069 - Natural Faces-1965.7z (B8029D49)
070 - EVE for Armamentarium-BAIN-24078.7z (2EC6ADAA)
071 - EVE for Artifacts-24078.7z (B925A6FE)
072 - EVE for Francesco-BAIN-24078.7z (736691AE)
073 - EVE for Martigen Monster Mod-BAIN-24078.7z (C5BFDAE2)
074 - EVE for Oscuro Oblivion Overhaul-BAIN-24078.7z (1FEE0F34)
075 - EVE HGEC Bodystock and Clothing-BAIN-24078.7z (940A7AF2)
076 - EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.7z (761D67A5)
077 - Ren's Beauty Pack-443.7z (CCC4CECC)
078 - ==Character Texture Replacers==.7z (00000000)
079 - Ethereal Eyes Universal Edition-7914.7z (A36B2B72)
080 - Facial Textures by Enayla-9534.7z (03CF7BCA)

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:29 pm

WarCry is supposed to be installed after OOO but before MMM. That aside, your package list looks good now. You need the compatibility patch for QTP3 and the UOPs. I will grab the links for those, but you can install them whenever. I guess that means you should move on to step #4. I will update this post with the links in a few...

Edit: Adding mods on top of the base FCOM install should not be a problem at all. You can even follow the First Run Guide with the expanded setup after checking that FCOM works. Remember to revisit the main Finishing the Installation page once you get around to adding more mods to your setup.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:03 am

@Michael neither you or Tomlong is going to enjoy what I'm about to say, but your a newbie to mods and at this stage I don't really feel you should yet be playing with BAIN. To install FCOM there is absolutely no need.
Very strongly I urge you to restart your install following the download links I've supplied in the opening post.
Everything you need for a basic install of the mod is found there. Download, install, run BOSS, address any issues it reports, make your bashed patch and then if necessary come back and tell us of anything your still having trouble with.

Let's not muck about with expanded load orders, 50 steps, or any other guide. It's not needed at this stage of a mod users life. From what I'm reading between the lines it's all just adding to any confusion.
Trust me when I say thousands of users have followed the layout as is in the opening post with no problems.

Let's get the mod working before playing with BAIN or adding a multitude of other mods.

Shikishima-
I'm posting here because the other thread is obviously going to be needed in full regarding installing of FCOM. and so it would be off topic to post there.
Regarding these comments and the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1088847-bain-install-of-fcom/page__view__findpost__p__15871851. I'd feel remiss if I did not mention that this guy Michael_Lightbringer has already done an enormous amount of work in BAINing (I was not part of even helping him do that - just pointing it out). To tell him to start over just to install his overhaul isn't something anyone wants to hear. furthermore that start over you are going wrong is great advice for manual or OMOD isntall - not BAIN.

As I've stated before - I really don't understand this resistance to BAIN. Please read this http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/page__view__findpost__p__15798012.

BAIN has been out over a year now more and more people ask about how to use it as time goes on. At this point I even feel that it is not my place to tell people which installer to use to install FCOM (or anything else). I just am trying to give good instructions on how to use BAIN if they choose that method.

I can totally understand why you would not like others telling users how to install the mod - totally get it, but even if I or Tomlong were not offering tutorials these questions would be there. Due to the lack of official instructions on the use of BAIN (which is not super complicated and certainly no more complicated than understanding how to make a bashed patch) and the official readme (dev's site) has not been updated since ... 05/19/2009 at 1:13 PM ... and truthfully the installer part about a year prior to that. It is no wonder this kind of thing is happening and will continue to happen - if the FCOM site were updated and even the most BASIC version of FCOM had BAIN instructions this would be a non-issue. And I mean BASIC FCOM load order not expanded.

I would be glad to help write such a thing - with, of course, the final draft approved by anyone on the team. I ask only that you think about it.

I, for one, am not trying to create drama or friction - I think FCOM is an amazing project. It just has been severely lacking in the installation documentation section. And mostly in not being updated.

Thank you for reading and the consideration.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Edit: ...

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:28 am

Psymon & Tomlong, there's absolutely no resistance from this thread re anything about BAIN.
Where that notion came from I have no idea. Personally, I love all things BASH, but an FCOM installation isn't currently supported by BAIN.
That may well happen down the road at some point.
What I did say is that for someone completely new to mod installment, I feel it's not the way to go.
And neither is adding a plethora of mods and texture replacements as would appear to be the instance in this case before the basic install of FCOM is even tested.
I intervened only because I felt Michael was beginning to lose the plot with so much information being thrown his direction.
Let's face it. Many experienced users have had problems installing the mod, so why complicate it even more?
As for saying BAIN is no more complex than making a bashed patch, you have read some of the threads both about Bash installation and how to make a patch?
BAIN isn't an FCOM subject at this moment in time so we'll leave at that in this thread.
As for the FCOM Homepage - that's something unfortunately the present active Team members are unable to access.
I don't know if I could stress it any plainer in the opening post that some of it's content isn't current and must be used in unison with the first post.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:40 pm

Edit: ...

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:03 am

Tomlong-
I agree - when i was new at installing mods I didn't care what was recommended the 'ohh shiny' factor was so overwhelming. At the time the FCOM readme was more relevant so that helped a lot. The mods made me download but I still needed lots of help in understanding how to install them.

Shikishima-

Well it creates a kind of ongoing problem - I know I've been asked in the past how to BAIN parts of FCOM - I generally avoid instructions on that and certainly do not go into any great details within the FCOM related threads about how to do that. I've adopted the stance of mostly having my own thread and answering questions there. Tomlong has taken a much more direct approach and is both providing a site with a continually building pool of information AND is providing help in numerous threads. I personally am unable to conceive how Tomlong has that desire, time, and energy, but to each their own.

I understand mod makers/caretakers would prefer that people come to them with questions about install of their mods - that is perfectly understandable. when you break it down there are three main methods of installation: Manually by hand, Oblivion Mod Manager, and BAIN. The general advise is to use an installer, so that leaves us with two choices OBMM or BAIN.

BAIN is gaining in popularity and there is a reason for that - it works very well. Sure I've hyped it in the past but not that much. It is a superior installer especially for managing replacers and install order. Not so much with OBSE/ini based mods, but then that is not FCOM either.

So then there is a quandry - If your wishes that BAIN not be discussed in the FCOM related threads are met and discussion of FCOM installation is not discussed in other threads for fear of contradicting the mod author/care-taker instructions then the final result is that using BAIN to install FCOM is not to be discussed.

I'm sorry but I don't know how to interpret that any other way than resistance.

This is compounded by the fact that users closer to FCOM than I am have openly stated that they use BAIN to install FCOM.

If it really is that Dev has moved on (or whatever) and that main readme is not accessible then what is the great harm in creating a new site (even if just temporarily)? Those same images can be lifted out of it and a statement that until that one is updated then this one will work and this will be taken down if insisted by Dev_Akm or whatever. UESP could be used for that - or guess what there is this site called TESIVPOSItive that is growing and could use some help.

I hope you see the point I'm making here - we are just trying to help. Now I've said my peace ... my offer still stands that I'd be happy to write up a basic FCOM BAIN guide for you all if you want to use it, change it, whatever. I've resolved not to offer that in my last thread and will likely not write about instructions for that anywhere without official support.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:37 pm

I hope you see the point I'm making here - we are just trying to help.

We understand that. And hope that you will come to understand that improving and troubleshooting the inner workings of the mod necessarily takes precedence over debating the relative merits of one installation method over another. Such a debate takes time and energy away from a new alpha which is only hours away from testing. That in turn delays public beta release.

First of all, I am instructing him to do the basic install first, but I am also trying to help him learn about mods in general in the process.

May I suggest that this is not an appropriate thread for that level of indepth tutoring?