[RELz] FCOM Convergence and UFCOM #66 : IV - Oblivion

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:17 pm

How does the import function of a bashed patch work? I'm not sure I fully understand it. If you use import, what happens with plugins that are unchecked? Is it necessary to use import to have a properly function FCOM install? And what's this about tags? Isn't that usually done automatically?

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:17 pm

How does the import function of a bashed patch work? I'm not sure I fully understand it. If you use import, what happens with plugins that are unchecked? Is it necessary to use import to have a properly function FCOM install? And what's this about tags? Isn't that usually done automatically?

Most of FCOM's files are already pre-tagged. The rest gets tagged when you run BOSS, so yes, basically it's automatically done. Just make sure you tick all the mods in the menu that comes up when rebuilding a Bashed Patch.
When you import from a mod the mod gets addes as master to the Bashed Patch and will be activated, unless it's tagged with NoMerge or Deacrivate, in which case only the specific tags get imported. So if a mod has the tage NoMerge and Graphics, only the graphics gets imported.

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:24 pm

What are the advantages of importing though? Why is it done?

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:51 am

What are the advantages of importing though? Why is it done?

To merge records and to avoid conflicts.
Let's take an NPC as an example. Let's say 10 mods edit him.
If not using tags and Wrye Bash only the edits made by the mod that loads last will make it into the game and the edits from the 9 other mods are lost and you face potentially game breaking conflicts.
With the right tags Wrye Bash can import all the modified records of the NPC from all 10 mods and there will be no conflicts. So the NPC can have Inventory from 4 mods, NPC.Face from the fifth mod, Factions from the sixth mod, Stats from the seveth mod, AI Packages from the eight mod, Script from the ninth mod and Character.Class from the 10th mod. This is an extreme example though, but you hopefully get the drift.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:30 am

How does the import function of a bashed patch work? I'm not sure I fully understand it. If you use import, what happens with plugins that are unchecked? Is it necessary to use import to have a properly function FCOM install? And what's this about tags? Isn't that usually done automatically?

You should double check that the mods are tagged as described in the first post http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums§ion=findpost&pid=16369253

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:57 am

Just make sure you tick all the mods in the menu that comes up when rebuilding a Bashed Patch.

I'll qualify that statement by adding that OOO.esm and OOO.esp are not to be imported in certain areas, specifically (from the FCOM OP):

Merge Patches - Generally all mergeable mods can be checked.
Import Actors - All FCOM mods and UOP checked.
Import Actors: AIPackages - All FCOM mods and UOP checked. Tag FCOM_Convergence.esp with Actors.AIPackagesForceAdd.
Import Actors: Death Items - All FCOM mods and UOP checked.
Import Actors: Spells - All FCOM mods checked. Tag Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm, Mart's Monster Mod.esm and Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp with Actors Spells. Tag FCOM_Convergence.esp with Actors.SpellsForceAdd.
Import Factions - All FCOM mods and UOP checked. Exception: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp.
Import Graphics - All FCOM mods. Tag Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm and Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp with graphics.
Import Inventory - All FCOM mods and UOP checked.
Import Relations - All FCOM mods and UOP checked. Exceptions: Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm and Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp.
Import Scripts - All FCOM mods and UOP checked.
Import Stats - All FCOM mods and UOP checked.
Leveled Lists - Generally rely on tags.
Tweak Names - Rename Dwarven to Dwemer.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:24 am

http://bildr.no/view/737227of the power of Wrye Bash.
Without Wrye Bash Phintias would not get his new face and hair from TNR, nor his key from OOO and not his faction membership from Blade of the Haunted. The looks and the key are not very important, but if his membership in that faction is a quest, dialogue or script condition it could screw up the Blade of the Haunted quest.

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:27 pm

http://bildr.no/view/737227of the power of Wrye Bash.
Without Wrye Bash Phintias would not get his new face and hair from TNR, nor his key from OOO and not his faction membership from Blade of the Haunted. The looks and the key are not very important, but if his membership in that faction is a quest, dialogue or script condition it could screw up the Blade of the Haunted quest.

Thanks for this - just curious why TNR's hair version (Redguard frizzed) wins, and not the (High Imperial Oiled hair) version from Oblivion? Is it because TNR loads later? Of course, this is Off-topic and nothing to do with FCOM....

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:36 am

Thanks for this - just curious why TNR's hair version (Redguard frizzed) wins, and not the (High Imperial Oiled hair) version from Oblivion? Is it because TNR loads later? Of course, this is Off-topic and nothing to do with FCOM....

Because TNR is tagged with NPCFaces.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:19 am

question though about one of the ESP's I'm using, I'm using FCOM more random Spawns. Would getting rid of that cut down on the number of enemies that show up in a dungeon? Or does that do something else with the game?

Bump. seeing if anybody who is on know can help me out with this question.

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:03 pm

question though about one of the ESP's I'm using, I'm using FCOM more random Spawns. Would getting rid of that cut down on the number of enemies that show up in a dungeon? Or does that do something else with the game?

More Random Spawns doesn't reduce the spawn rates - it just increases the max level difference for spawns. http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/fcomoptions.html:

FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns
This FCOM option increases the max level difference for creature and NPC spawns. It reduces the sometimes jarring transitions when you reach a new level (suddenly new things start appearing), but it also makes weaker enemies appear more often than was intended for OOO.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:45 am

How about merge? I think I understand how it works, incorporating the minor mods and fixes then leaving them virtually active. Is there any reason NOT to merge though?

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:17 am

More Random Spawns doesn't reduce the spawn rates - it just increases the max level difference for spawns. http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/fcomoptions.html:

Thanks for the answer and the link. I tried finding it last night but couldn't remember where I had seen it before.

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:54 pm

How about merge? I think I understand how it works, incorporating the minor mods and fixes then leaving them virtually active. Is there any reason NOT to merge though?

Guess you mean merging esps into the Bashed Patch? If you have the correct load order you can generally merge everything that's green and thus mergeable into the Bashed Patch.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 am

Hello! I've used FCOM in the past, and I have just reinstalled it, failed, and reinstalled again with the same problem. I can get up to the initial movie, but past then, I get a CTD.

I am using Wrye Bash 287, as 288 would not compile for me (trouble with the new crime-fine settings) The bashed patch currently compiles, and I have applied the settings in the first post. (I assumed that "All FCOM mods and UOP checked. " includes MMM, OOO, and all of the base mods.)

I also installed Ufcom and MMM using the OMODS.

I am guessing that it has something to do with either actors or races, as when I disable the bashed patch I can get to the char. creation screen. So it's something wrong at least there, and not something else like I assumed. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]08  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]09  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.1]0A  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0B  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0D  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp0E  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]10  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]11  DLCHorseArmor.esp12  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]13  DLCOrrery.esp14  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]15  DLCVileLair.esp16  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]17  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp18  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]19  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1A  DLCThievesDen.esp1B  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1C  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]1D  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]1E  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]1F  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp20  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]21  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]22  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]23  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]24  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.0]++  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.0]25  OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp  [Version 1.0]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]26  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]27  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]28  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]29  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]2A  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2B  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2C  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2F  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]30  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]31  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]33  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]35  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]36  DLCFrostcrag.esp37  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]38  Knights.esp39  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]3A  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]3B  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.76]++  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]3C  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:56 pm

I disabled Mayu's Animation Skeleton Overhaul Tweaker under "tweaks" and de-ticked the empty "merge race records" in the bashed patch to uncertain success. Now why that worked, I have no idea. If it's a skeleton issue like I surmise, is this because the bashed patch is letting me use Mayu's thing, and that is a mod that I don't have? (And likely don't need.)

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:10 am

I disabled Mayu's Animation Skeleton Overhaul Tweaker under "tweaks" and de-ticked the empty "merge race records" in the bashed patch to uncertain success. Now why that worked, I have no idea. If it's a skeleton issue like I surmise, is this because the bashed patch is letting me use Mayu's thing, and that is a mod that I don't have? (And likely don't need.)

Never used it myself, but I guess http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19796 is required and that the paths get wrong if not having it installed. From the WB readme:

Mayu's Animation Overhaul Skeleton Tweaker
? Sets NPC skeletons paths to match that required for MAO to work

» Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:02 pm

Never used it myself, but I guess http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19796 is required and that the paths get wrong if not having it installed. From the WB readme:

Aha, I see. I wrye bash was just picking it up and giving me the option then. Time post a bug report for him I thinks.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:11 am

Woohoo. Thanks for that Cornflake, because I have just installed FCOM and got a CTD from the very same issue you reported...well, I hope anyway. Bashed patch rebuilding now...

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:25 am

Aha, I see. I wrye bash was just picking it up and giving me the option then. Time post a bug report for him I thinks.

Well, it's not a bug but rather an optional tweak that is covered in the readme as well.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:24 am

Well, it's not a bug but rather an optional tweak that is covered in the readme as well.

I thought that the bashed patch was made such that the optional tweaks like that didn't show up at all if you didn't have the required dependences... Eh, if it's in the readme, it's my fault, as the last time I installed fcom was almost a year ago, and things have changed. Like patch compiling. That used to take like 3 minutes. Not 20. lol

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:32 am

Whic TNR should I use?? The TNR Tamriel NPCs Revamped v106-16843.omod or the TNR all races final?? Which works best if FCOM?

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:09 am

Excuse my stupidity but where does one get the 300 test module exactly? Is it in the FCOM download somewhere?

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:51 am

Excuse my stupidity but where does one get the 300 test module exactly? Is it in the FCOM download somewhere?

Yes, it's 300_Test.esp in: === FCOM Optional Add-Ons ===\TestResource\

See the Testing section on the http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/convergence.html for more details.

» Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:28 am

OK 2 quick questions

1.
From the "Quick Bash Check Guide for Wrye Bash 287" in opening post:
"Import Actors: Death Items - All FCOM mods and UOP checked."
Is this a typo or is it a new change that is to be followed?
http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/finishinstall/bashedpatch (amongst others) says to uncheck Oblivion WarCry in this section. I'm just making sure

2.
From opening post:
For compatibility reasons with the MMM BSA it's now important in which order some mods are installed.
Ok so I installed the mods in the "recommended order", meaning I did Francesco's right after the UOPs. Then I continued on the suggested order and installed the rest of FCOM. So far so good. However, oddly, when i was done, with the default FraNewItems.bsa, I recieved a crash at cell 26 in "300_test.esp", and what I did to solve this situation was to replace FraNewItems.bsa with the Optimized Version linked in this opening post. I renamed it properly and everything, and now my game is not crashing at cell 26 anymore.

That is all fine and dandy, and I should be celebrating, but just now I was thinking; did I screw up the "installation order" by doing this?

I mean, in theory, if the "recommended install order" is referring also to resources in BSA's, then I just installed Francescos last by replacing the file.

So, before I actually start to play this game, can someone confirm that I have not ruined my installation from doing this?

Thanks