Ok, what I would like is to have a couple of mods, that do the following:

- fix the monsters-levelling-up-with-player (like OOO, Francesco's, ...)
- add / adapt monsters (like MMM)
- add / adapt armor (like Bob's armory)
... perhaps something else, that's in FCOM, but doesn't have to be ...

Is it possible to choose a mod from each of those three "slots" such that one can install all without reading a dozen pages of how-to and without any additional tools (except simple ones like load-order)? Or are conflicts between such types of mods always predetermined?

Thanks!

PS: Yep, I have read that installing MMM+OOO or even FCOM ist much simpler these days, but for stupid lazy me it's still too much of a drag ...

So you want to avoid FCOM but get as close as possible without it? Perhaps MMM + OOO + Armamentarium? But it's hard to avoid having to read up on stuff even then, so it's just a difference in degree between that and FCOM when it comes to reading readmes/instructions.

FCOM requires Wrye Bash, so doing it without installing at least one extra tool is out... You could, however, install MMM+OOO. You don't need FCOM to add Bob's armory. FCOM is needed to run multiple overhauls together (i.e, OOO, Fran, WarCry.) Bob's Armory is not an overhaul.

Yeah, FCOM is mostly based around OOO. If you want something similar start there, and then add MMM because it's awesome. just seconding what's already been said.

Not sure if it's such a good idea to have Bob's Armory with OOO without using a Bashed Patch, so then you're back at Wrye Bash. Not sure, though, but wouldn't either Bob or OOO overwrite the other depending on load order otherwise - so you'll either find OOO items or Bob items, but not both? In fact, I'm not sure the Bashed Patch is enough - which is why FCOM comes with a Bob's Armory "patch" which handles it.

Ah, forgot about the leveled list resolution. Yup, you need FCOM for that too... There are other armor mods available, but if you want leveled list additions, you're at least back to Bash, as Arkngt said. However, how straight-forward is Armamentarium's installation? Doesn't that still require reading...? It is not as simple to install as Bob's.


Edit: What does "/ adapt" mean? I see how Bob's Armory adds armor, but the adapts part escapes me...

Yeah, the bottom line is that you can't escape putting some time and effort into installing several large mods that overhauls much of everything, whether FCOM or not. And Wrye Bash is hard to escape as well. :shrug:

I'd say: start with OOO+MMM, then try to learn Bash, then have a go at FCOM, maybe at first with just OOO and MMM and then add the other bits you want like Bob's. Alternatively, while its levelling is quite different to FCOM, you could try Frans+MMM and use Fran's Creatures and Items addon as a replacement for Bob's.

Maybe you should just try MMM+OOO, which can be run just fine without a Bashed Patch. Then, if you still want to try more "big and complex" mods, you can add Bash later.

I'd also like to add that, yes, it takes some reading and following instructions when installing FCOM - but it's not exactly rocket science either. If new to Wrye Bash, that also takes some time to get acquainted with - but it's not exactly esoteric either. It comes with an excellent readme for one thing. In short, if only prepared to invest some time people shouldn't be scared away from FCOM because of some perceived ultra difficulty.

If you're lazy (or truly that stupid, but I doubt that; it's not especially hard so much as time-consuming), you really have no business working with mods. It's a technical hobby and you need to expect to invest some time and effort to learn what you're doing.

That's a great point, and one that I think falls short on some people in these discussions. FCOM is more time consuming to: 1) set up in the first place, 2) maintain, and 3) troubleshoot when something goes wrong. As stated, it's not so much a "smart/dumb" thing as it is a "how much time do you want to spend on this" thing. There is a universe of mods out there. What you get out of them is directly related to how much time you want to spend reading, tweaking, and troubleshooting vs. how much time you want to spend playing.

It's not that hard, really. But it can certainly seem rather intimidating, especially if you don't have much experience with using and configuring Oblivion mods.

Actually, FCOM is a lot "kinder" than many other combinations could be, because several modders have put quite a bit of effort towards making it as close to "plug and play" as possible, within reason. This is not usually the case with various other complex mods, when they (as they sometimes will) clash with other such things.

If you simply don't want to go all the way, now or possibly ever, then getting to know OOO very well would be a good first step. Apparently, OOO+MMM is pretty "user-friendly" as well, so perhaps that as a second step?

But then again, what I would recommend is becoming familiar with Wrye Bash - thoroughly. From there, you can deal with just about anything that comes along, and mix 'n match freely. Generally.

I wish someone would just make a massive .exe or omod of all the files for a basic run of the mill and stable FCOM install and upload it. I'm sure the majority of the community would be very very grateful. I got my FCOM install working, but only after a few days of tinkering which is what happened the last time I installed it too.

Well, I can tell you that Team FCOM wouldn't be grateful if "someone" did that.

Well, the minimum FCOM can be built around is only MMM and OOO (although it's a bit pointless), and both of those have some excellent OMOD files. FCOM also has a good OMOD file, Frans is an easy to use exe and the other content mods can be easily OMODed. I don't think a joined together OMOD would be that useful, it would just remove some of the flexibilty and become a massive download.

LOL. If I had a time machine I'd take you back to 2007 when FCOM was the hardest thing on the planet to install. It was like trying to chase an impossible dream.

Although now it is easier, I feel the the UFCOM part of it, makes it more complicating than it should be. That's just my opinion though. I had to make sure I did everything right with that "update".

If you don't wont to go through all that trouble just to stick to OOO+MMM. That's as close as you could get.. Because the more you want to add, the more and more FCOM is gonna be calling for you.

Thanks a lot, everyone!

Well, it doesn't HAVE to be OOO + MMM + ... - any other combination of similar mods would be fine, for example I could run Francesco's instead of OOO and another monster mod instead of MMM ...

Why "wouldn't Team FCOM be happy" about one big FCOM installer that doesn't require any bash or tweaking or other tools?

:twirl:

... Because it would be very quickly outdated, impossible to update by the real mod authors, would lead to endless confusions and complaints ("Hey, I just installed it through the XXX's .exe auto-installer, why isn't my game working? You broke my computer!!!"), and incompatible with many things. The whole point of the Wrye patch (and of FCOM, in some way) is to allow the individual user to create a specific combination adjusted to his very own mod list, preference, and hardware: "one big universal FCOM installer" would just be a nonsense.

Plus, it would be extremely rude, to say the least, to make such a package and update it without the modder's authorization (and since they're still working on most of these mods, they certainly wouldn't give such an authorization)

OOO+MMM would be just as complicated to install as MM+Fran. OOO and Fran are both overhauls. The complexity level of the installation is not very different.

Team FCOM does not control OOO, MMM and Fran or any other mods other than FCOM. Fortunately, a number of the team members help with the development of two or maybe even three of the main components so that updates are somewhat synchronized. FCOM, OOO, MMM and the rest are still separate mods. Just because MMM may need a quick hotfix, does not mean the rest of the mods need to be updated, but sometimes they do. FCOM is dependent on the others, not a part of them. Putting all of the FCOM parts in an installer (which would be super massive and cause lots of people to complain even more...) would not get rid of the Bashed Patch requirement or tweaking or other tools. If you read about the tools and how these plugins work together, you might begin to understand why that is. Many of those who fret over FCOM's component nature don't. They just want convenient packaging, regardless of how rude, inefficient, hectic, impractical and short-sighted that project would be.

Yes, fortunately the teams are very well synchronised as the next releases basically is all about synchronization. We'll have OOO, MMM, FCOM, Cobl, Wrye Bash basically tailor made for each other. And they can't really be released separately as they all depend on being updated for this.



It's not like Team FCOM don't want the packaging/install to be as straightforward and easy as possible. Of course we do. At the moment we're focusing on the updates, though, so it would be a waste of time focusing on repackaging the current releases in BAIN format or whatever. But it will probably never be released as an all-in-one exe installer, though. First, I personally hate exe installers for mods - but that's not much of an argument I guess. More importantly, FCOM is all about optionality (is that a word?) and customization. Except for the core of MMM/OOO/FCOM, pretty much everything is optional. So a unified installer would have to be very complex for one thing to mirror all different options you can have - so then your back at complexity and needing to know what the different options mean just for one thing. There's a plethora of other reasons, some mentioned in the posts above. In short, of course we're aiming for the install to be as easy as possible - but that can only go so far for several reasons.