FCOM - Land Tearing : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:12 am

Here is the list (again)

Yes, I went through (as stated by the last rounds)

But I did post about the "bash" tags

One other thing: If boss suggest a tag, should I do that tag or at least see what boss has suggested is already there?

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.33]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]08  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]09  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]0A  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0B  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]0C  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0D  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0E  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp11  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp12  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]14  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]15  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.8]16  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]17  DLCOrrery.esp18  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]19  DLCVileLair.esp1A  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]1B  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp1C  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1E  Roberts Armamentium female.esp1F  DLCThievesDen.esp20  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]21  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]22  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]23  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp24  Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp25  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]26  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]27  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]28  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]29  OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp  [Version 1.33]2A  OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp  [Version 1.33]2B  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]2C  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]2F  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]34  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]37  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]38  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]39  allinonebasemant.esp3A  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]3B  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp3C  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp3D  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]3E  DLCfrostcrag.esp3F  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]40  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp41  Knights.esp42  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  DLC_MOBS.esp43  Blood&Mud.esp44  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]45  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]46  bartholm.esp47  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]48  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]49  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]4A  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]4B  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]4C  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]++  OOO-Level_Stock.esp  [Version 1.33]++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Spire Revisited.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4D  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]4E  Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp4F  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]50  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]51  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:25 am

BOSS tag suggestions are already done so you only really need to worry about the few changes you need to make manually to an FCOM install.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:07 pm

Here is an updated questions about Boss
Here is what Boss states:
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items-Mod.esm
Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH:Invent, Delev,Relev, Actors.Aidata,Actors.Stats, Stats}}

If I go to the little window at the bottom right (after selecting the above mod) All those items are checked,
So why the Bash Tag Suggestion?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:02 am

BOSS tag suggestions are already done so you only really need to worry about the few changes you need to make manually to an FCOM install.

But like the FCOM question I posted above - the suggestion for the FCOM_Conv. tag is already done
But several more are list - do I keep those or undo all but what FCOM suggest?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:34 am

Why isn't BOSS adding bashed tags?

Unless not using BOSS ... once again.

Here is something I wrote for understanding the bashed patch on the Fallout forum (quoted and slightly edited for salient points):

a bashed patch is a lot of things today. Originally it was a way of merging leveled lists. The issue being that multiple mods that alter or add to leveled lists and loaded into a more traditional load order would still be subject to the rule of one: that the last loaded mod would win the conflict.

So having mod A that has leveled list encounters added - say ancient snow yeti of 5 variety then have mod B loaded after that adds purple ants. With that scenario (and if I understand correctly - always willing to be corrected I am) then the Yeti might not appear as the lists with ants would override the mod A list.

To resolve that the tools for merging lists were created. With Morrowind I believe TESTool was implemented. With Oblivion Wrye Created Wrye Bash and it is still the most developed version of the Wrye tools. He then went back and created Wrye Mash for Morrowind. Valda ported Bash over to both Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

What you might ask?

Well here is brief list that I will try my best to give everyday explanations for:

1. Merged Mods - if a mod is in the load order that only changes existing records (of either the main esm or even other esp) then that entire mod can be merged into the bashed patch. It can then be left deactivated. This greatly reduces the number of esp you need active and makes it so that you can have well beyond the 254 limit of mods. My oblivion install is near 380 esm/esp. This is also internally consistent in that the order in which mods are merged is also a the order in which records are over and under written. So like all the merged mods are merged and then even in that there are conflict winners and losers.

2. Bash tagging - with these tags (only viewable in Wrye/Gary Bash) you can tag a mod with specific tags so that the records indicated by these tags will carry forward and be merged/bashed patch winners even if they would normally be losers - this is great for when you need the merged mod to lose at some records but win at others. Bashed tags are still being invented and implemented with Wrye Bash and it is awesome that Valda is willing to take requests for them here ... hint hint modders.

another example of bash tag usage is that you could import records from a mod without ever even needing to activate or merge the mod. This is usually though for graphics mods like lighting or face data.

3. Game Settings. Again like tags this is an area of growth with each new update. With these then you can have game settings like crime detection, Bounties, Length of time essential NPCs are unconscious and may other settings become settable with each new bash. So if you set NPCs to become essential for 10 seconds and then after playing find that is too short rebash and set for a minute.

With Wrye Bash this is getting into some pretty arcane and cool things which is in turn out dating many other mods and thereby shrinking the the load order further.

A well made and full bashed patch can almost constitute an overhaul in and of itself.

Basically it comes down to this - the bashed patch will import what it can in the order bashed, but if you want to override the order you tag a mod then import records via menus when starting bash process.

BOSS already is the most updated source for tags. FCOM has notoriously bad readme/install process/instructions. Just trust in BOSS as it will always be the most up to date info on tags. I'd rely on what it gives you over what is on some likely outdated or third-party install guide. If it is not up to date then again it will fall back on the FCOM team because they have edit access to BOSS and I know they update it.

Also true land tears look like http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/Windfall-UL.jpg or http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/aa206.jpg they are not resolved with teslodgen. If a visual anomoly is fixed with teslodgen it is an LOD issue. Rule of thumb is to run teslodgen after each and every change in load order.

================

To answer far237 above - a tag is not used unless imported.

The two posts above this one - again trust BOSS - they are suggestions when not using BOSS they are automatic when using BOSS. Make sense?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:05 am

FCOM has notoriously bad readme/install process/instructions.

You are too kind. Odd that people that actually read the instructions can get FCOM up and running in a couple of hours by simply following the opening post in the FCOM thread then. When it takes like a week with hundreds of posts made it's rather obvious that you might have bitten off more than you can chew in the first place. Don't think it has to do with the quality of instructions really. If that was so, why are most questions answered already and readily available in the FCOM opening post?

For example the one about BOSS bash tags above. It's also answered on the box of BOSS itself: "Provides Wrye Bash Bash Tag suggestions that are automatically applied by Wrye Bash". And also in the relevant section ("Automatic Tagging") in the Wrye Bash readme. So if reading the actual readmes of the mods you have questions about is too much too ask for I can't really see how it can be solved. Or are the BOSS and Wrye Bash readmes notoriously bad as well?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:41 am

Personalize much?

You, dear Arkngt, have no control over Oscuro's original OOO site not linking to Dev's site or this forum. You have no control over Dev not updating his site or again linking to the latest UFCOM information.

No not those things and it is those sites being referenced repeatedly in threads asking why FCOM is not working. I think you would be hard pressed though to deny that there is a derth of help me FCOM is broken threads on a fairly consistent basis around these parts.

Team FCOM does have control over a few things though. They could:

Fully embrace Wrye Bash and use the installer (since after all Wrye Bash is required).
Repackage the exe mods as BAIN ready or at least BAIN friendly.
Repackage an FCOM centric Frans package with just what is necessary.
Create a central hub for FCOM other than one floating thread on one forum (and then drop the attitude of dismay that people don't reference the FCOM thread as much as either of the two outdated sites that are persistent).
Embrace assistance that has been offered from various sources on creating a better install guide rather than denying such help and constantly refer back to the brief install guide in the notoriously cramped opening post.

So, as I see it, it is a combination of effects that make FCOM notoriously difficult to navigate when new to it.

Admittedly and upfront I've always read that FCOM was for advanced users. I got Bash and FCOM up and running within the first try as well. So yeah I agree to a point that this thread is about as hand holding as any I've ever seen, but still in terms of it being yet another FCOM thread - far from unique.

It is a comfortable position to adapt ... to state it is all the users fault, but seriously and sincerely how can you not see a pattern here? And yes I've heard the response that the FCOM team would rather work on new content than documentation. Great for you guys, but for the rest of us - thread after thread of these same questions.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:25 am

Why isn't BOSS adding bashed tags?

Unless not using BOSS ... once again.

Here is something I wrote for understanding the bashed patch on the Fallout forum (quoted and slightly edited for salient points):
Basically it comes down to this - the bashed patch will import what it can in the order bashed, but if you want to override the order you tag a mod then import records via menus when starting bash process.

BOSS already is the most updated source for tags. FCOM has notoriously bad readme/install process/instructions. Just trust in BOSS as it will always be the most up to date info on tags. I'd rely on what it gives you over what is on some likely outdated or third-party install guide. If it is not up to date then again it will fall back on the FCOM team because they have edit access to BOSS and I know they update it.

Also true land tears look like http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/Windfall-UL.jpg or http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/aa206.jpg they are not resolved with teslodgen. If a visual anomoly is fixed with teslodgen it is an LOD issue. Rule of thumb is to run teslodgen after each and every change in load order.

================

To answer far237 above - a tag is not used unless imported.

The two posts above this one - again trust BOSS - they are suggestions when not using BOSS they are automatic when using BOSS. Make sense?

Thank you for the above - that info is VERY informative.
But yes, I use BOSS - ALLLLL the time

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:20 am

The only real problem I am having right now is whenever I sell items in a store
Oblivion is CTD
I can reopen and then do the sales/buy - without problem
But if I "teleport" from area of Imperial City (to like my shack) then back and try to buy/sell - CTD
Any Ideas?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:30 am

The only real problem I am having right now is whenever I sell items in a store
Oblivion is CTD
I can reopen and then do the sales/buy - without problem
But if I "teleport" from area of Imperial City (to like my shack) then back and try to buy/sell - CTD
Any Ideas?

It is easy to suspect Enhanced Economy since the CTD is related to bartering, but I cannot think of anything in EE that could cause this. But you could always try a clean save (disbale EE, load your game and try bartering then. If it now works, save then enable EE again).

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:19 am

It is easy to suspect Enhanced Economy since the CTD is related to bartering, but I cannot think of anything in EE that could cause this. But you could always try a clean save (disbale EE, load your game and try bartering then. If it now works, save then enable EE again).

Well, Enhanced Economy is not the culprit
Still doing it
I've posted my load list again here - to see if someone can spot something

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:31 am

Here is my load list -
Nothing I see should be causing the CTD after barter in a shop

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]02  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.33]05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]06  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]07  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]08  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]09  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]0A  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0B  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.3]0C  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0D  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0E  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp0F  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp10  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp11  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp12  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]13  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.76]14  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.1]15  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.8]16  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]17  DLCOrrery.esp18  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]19  DLCVileLair.esp1A  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]1B  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp1C  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1D  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]1E  Roberts Armamentium female.esp1F  DLCThievesDen.esp20  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]21  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]22  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]23  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp24  Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp25  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]26  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]27  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]28  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]29  OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp  [Version 1.33]2A  OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp  [Version 1.33]2B  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]2C  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]2D  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2E  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]2F  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]30  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]31  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]32  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]33  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]34  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]35  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]37  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]38  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]39  allinonebasemant.esp3A  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]3B  Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp3C  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp3D  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]3E  DLCfrostcrag.esp3F  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]40  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp41  Knights.esp42  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  DLC_MOBS.esp43  Blood&Mud.esp44  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]45  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]46  bartholm.esp47  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]48  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]49  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]4A  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]4B  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]4C  nvde Spell.esp++  OOO-Level_Stock.esp  [Version 1.33]++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Spire Revisited.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.76]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4D  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]4E  Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp4F  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]50  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]51  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:29 pm

04 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.33]

23 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
24 Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp

28 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.33]
++ OOO-Water_Weeds.esp [Version 1.33]
29 OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp [Version 1.33]
2A OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp [Version 1.33]

++ FCOM_Cobl.esp [Version 0.9.9]

++ MMM-Cobl.esp [Version 1.69]

3E DLCfrostcrag.esp
3F DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
40 FrostcragRebornCobl.esp

++ OOO-Level_Stock.esp [Version 1.33]
++ Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp [Version 0.76]
++ Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Spire Revisited.esp [Version 0.76]
++ Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp [Version 0.76]

If I were you I would check that all the above are the latest versions and/or whether they are appropriate for your setup. Good luck.
:foodndrink:

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:58 am

Looks like you did not apply the OOO 1.34beta4 patch. It is required as per the uFCOM and FCOM thread OP first post. Get that.

Your Item Interchange is from the Original COBL install. There is an updated version to it independent of COBL http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17557

These could be the causes. I never had EE cause CTD. Try the updates and let us know if it fixes anything

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:20 am

Looks like you did not apply the OOO 1.34beta4 patch. It is required as per the uFCOM and FCOM thread OP first post. Get that.

Your Item Interchange is from the Original COBL install. There is an updated version to it independent of COBL http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=17557

These could be the causes. I never had EE cause CTD. Try the updates and let us know if it fixes anything

I have the 0001.34beta5 patch

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:41 am

Okay, I'm going to do this!
I'm doing a FULL new install
No - I will not post all my loads lol
But I will ask about some files if they are or are not needed.

So here is my first one:

I have these files under m y COBL folder
Cobl_172-21104.7z
Cobl_Cosmetics_Res_01.7z
Item_Interchange_0_78-17557.7z
Loot-Drop-Merchant_changes_proposal-21104.7z
Salmo_test_fix-21104.7z

Question: Do I need all these files?
Do I install in a particular order

The reason I am doing this - I have disabled all the mods and still getting CTD when I do a bater with any shop

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:43 am

Here is my "first" installation order:

INSTALL OBLIVION

PATCH IN THIS ORDER:

SI 1.20416 PATCH
DLCS
UOP 3.2.0
UOMP 1.5
UOP SUPPLEMENTALS 3.3.3
UOP SUPPLEMENTAL 3.3.4 ESP
USIP 1.40 (MAKE SURE TO GET THE USIP_FCOM_1-4 FILE FOR FCOM ETC)

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:10 am

Okay, I'm going to do this!
I'm doing a FULL new install
No - I will not post all my loads lol
But I will ask about some files if they are or are not needed.

Dude really?!

It is just unrealistic to expect a fully modded game to come out right and not have one hiccup anywhere ever. You start over because you get lost then re-approach and get mesmerized by new mods then get lost again.

If you learn how to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ you would not need to reinstall ever again unless you format your drive, move your installation, or get a new computer.

Or just stick with what you have and work out each issue by building debugging skills.

Problems are found daily with mods on these forums and you have a completely unrealistic goal that you can get a modded game up and going without any problems. Or that if you do you need to start over.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:46 am

The ufcom thread opening post has the recommended install order.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1160205-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/

The post has links to all the mods too.

Recommended install order:

Note: For compatibility reasons with the MMM BSA it's now important in which order some mods are installed. It's very much recommended to start from a clean install of the game before installing FCOM. Oblivion must be patched to 1.2.0416.

Recommended/required utilities: Wrye Bash, OBMM and BOSS - Better Oblivion Sorting Software. Wrye Bash is required as FCOM depends on its Bashed Patch feature, but it's highly recommended to use Wrye Bash and/or OBMM for installs generally and Wrye Bash/BOSS for setting the load order. See respective readmes and guide below.

?Unofficial Oblivion Patch

?Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch [if applicable]

?DLC's, Unofficial Official Mods Patch [if applicable]

--here you would install the supplemental UOP patches

?Francesco's Creatures-Items 4.5 [optional] [Follow install guide below. Note optimized bsa below.]

?OOO 1.33 Complete patched to OOO 1.34 Beta 5 [required] [Follow install guide on the FCOM Homepage.]

?OblivionWarCry 1.09, Oblivion Warcry EV.bsa [optional]

?Bob's Armory 1.1 [optional] [Note the test bsa below.]

?Loth's Blunt Weapons [optional]

?Armamentarium and Artifacts [optional]

?Mart's Monster Mod 3.7b3 [required], Diverse WaterLife Update 3.7b3pF [optional, if applicable], Runeskull update for FCOM - Beta2 [optional, if applicable] [Follow install guide in the MMM release thread.]

?Cobl [optional]

?MMM 3.7b3 Cobl Update [optional, if applicable] [Note guide below.]

?Cobl Races [optional]

?FCOM 0.9.9 and supported add-ons [add-ons optional, if applicable], Entropic Order Rebalance, FCOM Archery 1.0.0 [optional, if applicable]

?UFCOM, FCOM_WarCry109 [if applicable] [Note the test bsa below.]

?Body Replacement mods (Robert's, Exnem, EVE HGEC etc.) [optional]

?Texture replacers [optional]

Read that page a few times to get an idea (you already know some of it).

The reason I said you did not have the OOO 1.34beta4 patch was because your load order showed 1.22 after the OOO esp meaning you did not have the OOO esp from the patch.

Starting over from scratch multiple times when learning is not a bad thing, you learn something new every time.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:34 am

Dude really?!

It is just unrealistic to expect a fully modded game to come out right and not have one hiccup anywhere ever. You start over because you get lost then re-approach and get mesmerized by new mods then get lost again.

If you learn how to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ you would not need to reinstall ever again unless you format your drive, move your installation, or get a new computer.

Or just stick with what you have and work out each issue by building debugging skills.

Problems are found daily with mods on these forums and you have a completely unrealistic goal that you can get a modded game up and going without any problems. Or that if you do you need to start over.

Actually I am going to do everything in BAIN
I have some of the files needed to learn that and will read on them
But I did find the issue - and do NOT ask me how it happened I have no Idea
But I have ESP files in my Oblivion Folder - then in data folder I had sub folders of Dada again
It's like what the &*(#

One thing I would like to clear up in my mind:
I take one of the .7z files and put that into the folder (can't recall name of the folder)
Once I run that file in Wrye Bash - do I have to keep the compressed file in that folder or can I delete it?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:40 am

The ufcom thread opening post has the recommended install order.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1160205-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/

The post has links to all the mods too.

Recommended install order:

Note: For compatibility reasons with the MMM BSA it's now important in which order some mods are installed. It's very much recommended to start from a clean install of the game before installing FCOM. Oblivion must be patched to 1.2.0416.

Recommended/required utilities: Wrye Bash, OBMM and BOSS - Better Oblivion Sorting Software. Wrye Bash is required as FCOM depends on its Bashed Patch feature, but it's highly recommended to use Wrye Bash and/or OBMM for installs generally and Wrye Bash/BOSS for setting the load order. See respective readmes and guide below.

That is one of the reasons I am doing - to learn!
But also - and something I would really like a second input on - is all the files I am using - are they the one's I need - or am I doing over-kill or wrong files
Am I installing some of the files in the wrong order.
Like with Cobl - Item Placement files - the installation guide does not talk about those - and some are needed
So - with that in mind - I would really love it if the files I list that I am installing are the one's I need - and in what order should I install them

Yes, for me - it's learning - as something we ALL have had to go through

?Unofficial Oblivion Patch

?Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch [if applicable]

?DLC's, Unofficial Official Mods Patch [if applicable]

--here you would install the supplemental UOP patches

?Francesco's Creatures-Items 4.5 [optional] [Follow install guide below. Note optimized bsa below.]

?OOO 1.33 Complete patched to OOO 1.34 Beta 5 [required] [Follow install guide on the FCOM Homepage.]

?OblivionWarCry 1.09, Oblivion Warcry EV.bsa [optional]

?Bob's Armory 1.1 [optional] [Note the test bsa below.]

?Loth's Blunt Weapons [optional]

?Armamentarium and Artifacts [optional]

?Mart's Monster Mod 3.7b3 [required], Diverse WaterLife Update 3.7b3pF [optional, if applicable], Runeskull update for FCOM - Beta2 [optional, if applicable] [Follow install guide in the MMM release thread.]

?Cobl [optional]

?MMM 3.7b3 Cobl Update [optional, if applicable] [Note guide below.]

?Cobl Races [optional]

?FCOM 0.9.9 and supported add-ons [add-ons optional, if applicable], Entropic Order Rebalance, FCOM Archery 1.0.0 [optional, if applicable]

?UFCOM, FCOM_WarCry109 [if applicable] [Note the test bsa below.]

?Body Replacement mods (Robert's, Exnem, EVE HGEC etc.) [optional]

?Texture replacers [optional]

Read that page a few times to get an idea (you already know some of it).

The reason I said you did not have the OOO 1.34beta4 patch was because your load order showed 1.22 after the OOO esp meaning you did not have the OOO esp from the patch.

Starting over from scratch multiple times when learning is not a bad thing, you learn something new every time.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:25 pm

Actually I am going to do everything in BAIN
I have some of the files needed to learn that and will read on them
But I did find the issue - and do NOT ask me how it happened I have no Idea
But I have ESP files in my Oblivion Folder - then in data folder I had sub folders of Dada again
It's like what the &*(#

One thing I would like to clear up in my mind:
I take one of the .7z files and put that into the folder (can't recall name of the folder)
Once I run that file in Wrye Bash - do I have to keep the compressed file in that folder or can I delete it?

The folder you mean is Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers and is created when activating the Installers tab in Wrye bash. You need to keep the .7z (or .zip or .rar) file in there. This is what you will use to uninstall the mod or change the load order. You can also update the file (using the same name) to update the esp or other files it contains (you will need to anneal after that as the color of the checkbox will change). Great stuff. Make sure you activate BSA Redirection by right click the header "package" and check the BSA Redirection option. Be aware also of the option for "Has Extra Directories" and "Enable Installation of OBSE Plugins" provided you are using version 291.

As for the data folder in the data folder, sounds like a error on install, but it should not have been a problem as Oblivion only sees esp and esm files in the oblivion\data folder root. Strange. But hey, you figured it out.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:15 pm

Likely the folder mix ups come from either just unzipping into the data folder without looking at the folder structure in the archives.

To say that there is not a standard for packaging mods is an extreme understatement.

Some expect you to extract at the same level as the oblivion folder (and hence if you extract it at the level of the data folder you will get another data folder in the data folder (easy to fix actually - just move the stuff in it to the right folder). Others do weird things like have an esp next to (on the same level) as a data folder which then has the data resources. That will never be usable. Or worse have alternate textures and meshes in unused file paths in the data folder making them difficult to find and sort through.

These issues will carry over even if you use OMODs or BAIN and thus it is a necessity to examine the folder structure of your install and the archives to make sure they match the right way.

I've had to repackage hundreds of mods - even if they do release in BAIN format - then often the esp are not cleaned so if I'm going to clean it might as well repackage so that it is golden once installed.

I took two suggestions to heart. Eliminster recommended that dirty esp be reported to the mod authors. Wrye recommended that mod makers be encouraged to package with BAIN format. I've tried to advocate for both of these things because it does minimize installation issues, conflicts, and bug reports diminish.

But it has not won me many friends.

Funny that - modders should mod because they want to - I get that, but packaging and presentation go a long way. Mods in unfriendly packages with obtuse readmes will garner more threads like this.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:12 am

I know what you mean. It's a pain that the base folder in the archive is a variation of the mod name then subfolders in there. Although, with the "Convert to archive" feature in OBMM is is easy to get a BAIN version (at least one that installs in BAIN) for many mods. It was a very easy conversion from omod to BAIN for all the vibrant texture mods (most of them

).

It is what it is.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:40 am

The folder you mean is Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers and is created when activating the Installers tab in Wrye bash. You need to keep the .7z (or .zip or .rar) file in there. This is what you will use to uninstall the mod or change the load order. You can also update the file (using the same name) to update the esp or other files it contains (you will need to anneal after that as the color of the check box will change). Great stuff. Make sure you activate BSA Redirection by right click the header "package" and check the BSA Redirection option. Be aware also of the option for "Has Extra Directories" and "Enable Installation of OBSE Plug-ins" provided you are using version 291.

As for the data folder in the data folder, sounds like a error on install, but it should not have been a problem as Oblivion only sees esp and esm files in the oblivion\data folder root. Strange. But hey, you figured it out.

Is there a way to change the Oblivion Mods\Bash folder location? I have a ton of those 7z files on my external hard drive (which is always connected to my laptop)