Recently installed FCOM using the FCOM website as a guide, OBMM BOSS and Wrye bash, have spent a little while tweaking the load order but kept it as close to the original as as possible. Also added a few aesthetic mods. nothing that changes the game mechanics.

The game runs fine as far as i can tell apart from one isolated issue: The game CTDs every time i try to go near the IC waterfront. Either from the world side, by swimming/walking towards the cell, or through the tunnel from the IC elven gardens. I've honed down on the issue as it being specifically the IC waterfront cell that causes the CTD when it tries to load. I will provide a mod order list. I'm not un-learned in the ways of using mods and oddly i don't have any mods that effect/alter the IC waterfront independently, which causes me to worry it is a component of a wider mod thats causing the CTD.

Any advise would be highly appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------------- Better Oblivion Sorting Software       Load Order Utility    (c) Random007 & the BOSS development team, 2009-2010       Some rights reserved.                                      CC Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0       http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/          v1.5 (23 March 2010)                                    -----------------------------------------------------------Master .ESM date: Mon Jan 01 09:23:00 2001FCOM detected.OOO detected.------------------------------------Recognised and re-ordered mod files:------------------------------------Oblivion.esm  . Note:  Masterlist Information: $Revision: 755 $, $Date: 2010-03-24 09:30:30 -0700 (Wed, 24 Mar 2010) $, $LastChangedBy: pacificmorrowind $You Are Here.esmEnhancedWeather.esmFrancesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Invent, Delev, Relev, Actors.AIData,Actors.Stats, Stats}}Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esmCobl Main.esm  . Note:  Do not use Tamrielic Ingredients and COBL at the same time.Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Invent,Scripts,Stats,Relations}}Mart's Monster Mod.esm  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.Stats,Delev,Factions,Graphics,Invent,Names,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Stats}}FCOM_Convergence.esm  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Delev,Factions,Relations,Relev}}TNR - THE DUNMER.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE IMPERIALS.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE BRETONS.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE ALTMER.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE BOSMER.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE NORDS.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE ORCS.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE KHAJIIT.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - THE ARGONIANS.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp  . Note:  Not need if use Cobl Races TNR.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate.TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp  . Note:  Not need if use Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,Invent,NoMerge}} and deactivate.Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  . Note:  Recommend installing UOP hotfix for additional fixes: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.CombatStyle,Actors.DeathItem,Actors.Stats,C.Climate,C.Light,C.Name,C.Owner,Creatures.Blood,Delev,Factions,Invent,Names,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Stats}} and remove the C.Water tag (only exist in older version).  . Note:  Remember to use the 'MOBS' version when using Francesco's or FCOM.  . Note:  Newest MOBS and non-MOBS versions have the same name.UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.espOblivion Citadel Door Fix.espDLCShiveringIsles.espUnofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  . Note:  Remember to use the 'MOBS' version when using Francesco's and FCOM.  . Note:  Newest MOBS and non-MOBS versions have the same name.  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.DeathItem,Actors.Stats,C.Climate,C.Light,C.Name,C.Owner,Delev,Factions,Invent,Names,Relev,Scripts,Stats,Relations}}Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp . Requires:  Shivering Isles expansion.FCOM_Francescos.esp . Requires:  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items 4.5b.FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp . Requires:  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items 4.5b. . Requires:  Francesco's supplementary addon package.FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp . Requires:  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items 4.5b.LoadingScreens.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics,NoMerge}}EnhancedWeather.espEnhancedWeather - Darker Nights, 80.esp  . Note:  Use only one 'Darker Nights' plugin.Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.espBetter Bell Sounds.espSymphony of Violence.esp  . Note:  May cause CTDs when used with Deadly Reflex. Merging it into the bashed patch with Wrye Bash *May* fix it.AmbientTownSounds.espMIS.espRWTavernTemple.espbnmDLTIC-1-6.esp . OOO Specific Note:  Probably not OOO compatible - drop lit torches already integrated.Living Economy.esp  . Note:  Don't use 'Living Economy' and 'Living Economy - SI' together. Pick one.Living Economy - Items.espCutthroat Merchants.espGrowlfs Animated Hair.espCall Steed 2.5+Saddlebags 0.91.espCobl Glue.esp  . Note:  Make sure to install the FCOM patch 'FCOM_Cobl.esp'.Cobl Si.esp . Requires:  Shivering Isles expansion.OOO 1.32-Cobl.espFCOM_Cobl.esp . Requires:  'Cobl Glue.esp' and 'OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp'.  . Note:  Do not use COBL and Tamerielic Ingredients at the same time.Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp . Requires:  'FCOM_BobsArmory.esp'.FCOM_BobsArmory.esp . Requires:  'Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp'.Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.ACBS,Actors.DeathItem,Actors.Stats,Delev,Graphics,Invent,Relev,Stats}} . Requires:  either 'FCOM_WarCry.esp' or 'FCOM_WarCryNoSpawn.esp'.FCOM_WarCry.esp  . Note:  Use either 'FCOM_WarCry.esp' or 'FCOM_WarCryNoSpawn.esp', not both.Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.Stats,Delev,Factions,Graphics,Invent,Names,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Stats}}OOO-Water_Weeds.espOOO-No_Guild_Ownership.espOOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.espFCOM_Convergence.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.CombatStyle, Actors.Stats,Delev,Factions,Graphics,Invent,Names,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Stats}}FCOM_RealSwords.espFCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.espFCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  . Note:  Use only one: Reduced, SlightlyReduced or Stronger.  . Note:  'Stronger' is the same as 'Reduced' but spawns will be more powerful.Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  . Note:  Use either 'More Wilderness Life' or 'More Wilderness Life No Gates' but not both.FCOM_SaferRoads.espMart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.espMart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.espMart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Increased.esp  !!! FCOM INSTALLATION ERROR:  Not recommended. Not fully tested with FCOM and creatures from other FCOM related mods may not appear.Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.espMart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Invent,Scripts,Stats}}Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.espMart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  . Note: Not compatible with Slof's Horses or Slof's Extra Horses.FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.espFCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp . Requires:  'Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp'.FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp . Requires:  Shivering Isles expansion.FCOM_Archery.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Stats}}FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.espFCOM_MoreRandomItems.espLoadingScreens-OOO.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics,NoMerge}}OOO-WaterFish.espHarvest [Flora].esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Scripts}}Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp300_Test.espAgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Sound}} and deactivate.Level_Rates_Modified_x5.espLet There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp . Requires:  Shivering Isles.  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Light}}Better Redguard v2.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,Graphics}} make sure to merge into the bashed patch and deactivate.Hidden_Elves.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,Hair,Eyes,Graphics,R.Relations}}Beautiful People.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,Hair,Eyes,Graphics}}Cobl Races.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH: Eyes, Hair, R.Relations, Voice-M, Voice-F}}Cobl Races TNR.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate. . Requires:  the Cobl Cosmetics Res 01 files installed.Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,NoMerge}} and deactivate. . Requires:  the Cobl Cosmetics Res 01 files installed.Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Body-F,Body-M,Eyes,Hair,R.Relations}}KT_CustomRaceFix.esp  . Note:  Included in UOP v2.x or newer. Both should not be used at once. Use UOP.Francesco's day lenght rescale 1-12.espOOO-Respawn_Week.espBNewShockFunnelEffects20.espCobl Silent Equip Misc.espBashed Patch, 0.espStreamline 3.0.esp  . Note:  Old. Update to 3.1 or later.-----------------------------------------------------------------Unrecognised mod files:                                          Reorder these by hand using your favourite mod ordering utility. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Done.

Thanks in advance!

**EDIT**

if your about to mention bnmDLT.esp (drop lit torches): yes it is compatible and works perfectly along side the dlt add-on that FCOM has, i added this one in manually as i wasn't 'dropping' torches, having this load after the bashed patch doesn't effect the game in any negative way at-all afaict, and as the problem i am having is with the game loading the IC WF cell, i would be HIGHLY surprised if this was the culprit

OH, and something else i was wondering. When people get attacked, i guess when the game registers they have taken damage and are not at full health, the turn a hue of green...? also dead bodies turn a hue of green, not every NPC does this, although most do. Is this a game mechanic added by one of the component parts of FCOM that i overlooked? i can't figure out why this would happen, i sense some logic behind it which is why i gathered its probably an intended mechanic, although I'm uncertain, evidently. A response on this would also be appreciated.

Cheers.

May be a corrupted spawn, in which case waiting 4 days in an interior cell should solve the issue.

Update Streamline and http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/walkthroughs/postlo with Wrye Bash next time.

Edit: Try remove MMM Looting NPCs and creatures. Choose between BP and COBL races. They both edit the vanilla races and...It would take some work to get them working together properly, and your setup is already suffering. Remove the OOO Respawn week and the Fran day length rescale 1-12 plugins. Change the respawn time and the timescale in the bashed patch. I do not remember the exact section, but try looking under "tweak settings," "global settings" and "tweak assorted." Having respawn 1 week in OOO with a slower timescale should be...interesting.

Also, since your respawn time is one week, you need to wait 145 hrs in game, not just four days, to try PetrusOctavianus' suggestion.

Take out OOO - Waterfish.esp to start.

Also, remove the extra TNR entries (you have the full one in your list, so use either some of the individual ones, or the full one) Make sure to only import NPCFaces and then deactivate.

Choose one of the "Spawn Rate" entries you have in your load order. Currently, you have two and you can only have one.

If still having problems, consider removing OOO - Waterweeds.esp as well. It's stressful on a lot of systems.

WOW fast responses. Three in the time it took me to review my post and add a few changes. thank you very much for your speedy responses, i'll go and look into whats been proposed so far and report back in a little while.

Showler, is OOO-Waterfish buggy? I just want to know if I should add a comment about it to my site. I already know about the Waterweeds plugin. I should probably add a note about it too.

I can't say it's buggy. It works well for a lot of people.

It is fairly stressful, because it adds a lot of AI load. Additionally, while bug-fixing the MMM - DiverseWaterlife.esp file, EloiseShadowborn found several optimizations to improve performance on that mod. OOO - Waterfish doesn't have those optimizations, so if I had the choice I'd use the MMM version over the OOO version right now.

Again, I can't say it's buggy, but it's not as optimized as the MMM version, and the IC waterfront is a major site for AI overload from the fishies.

wow, sound advice, i envy your depth of understanding of this stuff.

Building the bashed patch now, about to test with the changes made. A problem i am having is i can't find how to change the day time scale length, i have 'tweak settings' and 'tweak assorted', to which i have changed the cell respawn times to 3 days, i have also deactivated the timescale and spawn time scale esps (amongst the other changes you mentioned). My only problem is i can't find a setting that changes the actual game timescale in the bashed patch window. I don't have a 'global settings' option either... did you say that by meaning 'look for things like' or am i actually supposed to have a 'global settings' tab in the bashed patch window?

Oh, you need to update Wrye Bash. Upgrade to version v279, and get v282 when it is released.

got the new wryebash and found the global settings tab. i don't understand the relation between the numbers (1, 8, 10, 12, 18, 24 e.t.c.) and daytime length, which should i choose that makes 1 game day last 1 RL hour (or as close to).

I'm sorry if i'm annoying you with my basic level questions.

Choosing 12 is the same setting that your chose with that plugin you had had installed. No problem, I am writing my site to help users just like yourself.

Edit: I would love to have your feedback after giving it a once over. I want the site to cover enough of the basics for a new Oblivion user.

YOU are the person writing http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/index site? HAHA i've just been reading that and i'm half contemplating re-doing my whole oblivion install using that as a guide/mod link resource. So far its brilliant man.

One thing i would say is the part about creating the bain archives(/packages?), more-so the file structure of the archives as they are meant to be built. I would say a little more detail needs to be gone into as to 'why' the file structures are they way they are and possibly some more 'visual' examples of example file structures with explanations of what file types go in where and for what reason, possibly going into how bain 'read's the file structures.

I found that part of the site (i've not gone through the whole site yet) i didn't understand very well as after reading i didn't really understand the process of making bain archives clearly.

apart from that its great so far. Allot of info on there and allot of great mods listed!

Thank you for the suggestions. That seems to be the part hanging people the mods. I just finished revamping the site, so I can start on rewriting the more specific part now. I will prioritize that along with the BSA-repacking section. At the moment, I have no access to my Oblivion setup, but I will try to get screen shot when I can get to it through LogMeIn again...somehow, haha.


Thank you again!
- Tomlong75210

I've tried doing all the stated things in this thread, I've managed to get into the waterfront area, round the back by swimming across the water. Oddly non of the houses or NPCs are there at-all the game then crashes after about 2 seconds of being in the cell.

no exclamation marks are there to tell me there are missing meshes/textures. Just a bare and empty waterfront shack village, minus the shacks/NPCs.

EDIT**************

sorry, the shacks ARE there... i was to far round to the right...... don't ask........

still getting the CTD though

Definite issues there, then.

Can you post your load order again, from wrye bash? Right-click the headers in the mods tab and select "list mods" then paste the result here.

Could you http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/troubleshooting/postlo so that we can see version numbers? Check your http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/troubleshooting too.

The waterfront has always been a place I've had problems with modified oblivion, which seemed to be worse with OOO/FCOM even when not using OOO-Fish and waterweeds.
Untill, that is, I started using http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19589. As it loads after OOO and uses vanilla resources it's easy on the performance front, and, for myself at least, has resolved the overload - CTD issues I was having at the water from.

Also, are you using a VWD mod, because that area (water, fish, weeds) and the extra buildings all around the lake are an FPS killer

I have been running FCOM, BCs and the ULs, and the water front, aside from consistently poor FPS, has not been a source of crashes.

OK, a little update. for some odd reason i managed to walk about in the IC waterfront for a few minutes, at first i got a majour FPS hit for about 30 seconds when i first got into the cell, then a freeze for about 3 seconds then my FPS went back to normal and i was able to walk about fine, all models, buildings, actors e.t.c. were there as normal. Then i noticed a floating orc. Invisible horses! So i rebuilt the bashed patch to exclude saddle bags and call steed from the list and deactivated it. The horse was then visible and the IC WF seems to work fine.

The problem is the game seems to be CTDing more than i had first thought. after swiming back across the water i got into a fight with a guard dog and got a CTD., i had fought guard dogs before with no problem, i also got another CTD when walking through a little settlement a little away from the fort i fought the guard dog at.

Load Order:

[codebox]Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  You Are Here.esm02  EnhancedWeather.esm  [Version 1.3.7]03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9a7]09  TNR - THE DUNMER.esp0A  TNR - THE IMPERIALS.esp0B  TNR - THE BRETONS.esp0C  TNR - THE ALTMER.esp0D  TNR - THE BOSMER.esp0E  TNR - THE NORDS.esp0F  TNR - THE ORCS.esp10  TNR - THE KHAJIIT.esp11  TNR - THE ARGONIANS.esp12  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp <---- meant to be deactivated, was when testing.13  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp14  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.5]15  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]16  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp17  DLCShiveringIsles.esp18  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]19  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1C  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp1D  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp1E  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1F  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]20  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]21  LoadingScreens.esp22  EnhancedWeather.esp  [Version 1.3.5]23  EnhancedWeather - Darker Nights, 80.esp  [Version Final]24  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp25  Better Bell Sounds.esp26  Symphony of Violence.esp27  AmbientTownSounds.esp28  MIS.esp29  RWTavernTemple.esp2A  Living Economy.esp2B  Living Economy - Items.esp2C  Cutthroat Merchants.esp2D  Growlfs Animated Hair.esp2E  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]2F  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]30  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]31  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]32  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp33  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]34  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp35  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9]36  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]37  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]38  OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp  [Version 1.33]39  OOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.esp  [Version 1.33]3A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3B  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3C  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3D  FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  [Version 0.9.9]3E  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]3F  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]40  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]41  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]42  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]43  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]44  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]45  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]46  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]47  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]49  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4A  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4C  LoadingScreens-OOO.esp4D  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]4E  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]4F  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]50  AgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.esp51  Level_Rates_Modified_x5.esp52  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp53  Better Redguard v2.esp54  Hidden_Elves.esp  [Version 1.1]55  Beautiful People.esp56  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]57  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]++  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]58  KT_CustomRaceFix.esp59  BNewShockFunnelEffects20.esp5A  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]5B  Bashed Patch, 0.esp5C  bnmDLTIC-1-6.esp  [Version 1.6]5D  Streamline 3.0.esp[/codebox]

well this is getting dismal. Invisible 'lesser blood golem', completely not there. I think i may just have to completely uninstall and start from scratch...

that doesn't mean i'm not looking on how to fix this though. is that a contradictory statement? meh

For future reference

09 TNR - THE DUNMER.esp
0A TNR - THE IMPERIALS.esp
0B TNR - THE BRETONS.esp
0C TNR - THE ALTMER.esp
0D TNR - THE BOSMER.esp
0E TNR - THE NORDS.esp
0F TNR - THE ORCS.esp
10 TNR - THE KHAJIIT.esp
11 TNR - THE ARGONIANS.esp
12 TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp <---- meant to be deactivated, was when testing.
13 TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp


If you have 12, you don't need 09 - 11, all races means all of them. Plus it needs to be merged/imported into Bash and deactivated.

It also says you don't need TNR All Races + TNR SI if you are using the COBL TNR + COBL TNR SI esp's.
Which you are.
Looks like you need only the COBL TNR plugins, but i'm no expert.

I'd actually suggest using bg's most excellent http://www.theelderscrolls.info/?go=dlfile&fileid=215. TNR heads for blokes, super beautiful ones for the ladies. Follow the BOSS instructions - you REALLY need these deactivated and merged into Bash as they load AFTER OOO/FCOM!

I'm not using TNR all races because i'm using better redguards as i think its better, so i've left out the redguards from TNR and am using the otptional individual race esps from TNR.

As for the TNR and COBL situation, i'm a little confused about that aswell. I don't know what i'm supposed to use, considering I'm using TNR NPC's and Better redguards, the COBLE esps include
cobl races.esp
coble races TNR.esp
coble races TNR SI.esp
cobl races - Balanced.esp

Now as i am using the aforementioned i presume i don't need to use cobble races TNR and TNR SI. But do i still keep 'Cobl races.esp' active? considering i am using the 'cobl races balanced.esp', that doesn't actually add any new npc faces e.t.c., it balances the 'stats' of races and it adds game changes i like to my character.

I don't know if i need to keep cobl races.esp active if i'm using cobl races balanced.esp. - coble races Balanced is merged into the bashed patch completely but has cobl races.esp as a master, which ISN'T merged into the bashed patch.... i'm quite confuzzled

Thats not even bringing into the equation beautiful people... what i did before was install beautiful people, then TNR after and had TNR load after in the load list, i figured this would mean TNR did the brunt of the work and BP would fill the gaps TNR missed... thats before i was using the bashed patch.

gah... head fuq.

EDIT****

How exactly do you merge NPC heads? is this right? ----> activate the esps, create bashed patch, make sure options are checked in the bashed patch, make patch, deactivate esps on the list... right?

does that then give the little icons a 'dot' in them (instead of a plus)? cuz thats what i've got, checking to see if i've done it right.