It's like everyone is incapable of even seeing the brighter side if attributes were still in the game. Throw it away because they couldn't be bothered to improve upon it. Others complaining the system took too much effort to game for maximum effect. Perks are in no way better when majority of them are just bloat that you don't have any choice in taking. Do you find clicking that button to get increased damage/effectiveness or reduced costs to be engaging?

You could have just as easily kept playing and acted like they weren't there outside of level ups but that's not good enough. They have to be gone, they somehow interfered with your sneak attack OHKO's. Why did you absolutely need to "grind" Acrobatics or anything? If they removed anything because of imbalance they are full of it with the current state of enchanting/alchemy/smithing.

There's already been several examples of why would not they be needed if you can't use them to . How about instead of cutting back on everything we actually get those features? Break the lock/door if you have enough strength. Convince NPC's to join you with your personality. We've already established that the entire Lockpick/Speech/Pickpocket trees are entirely worthless, how did they evade getting cut?

/e

I doubt mods will be capable of doing anything about this either.

OP, as you can tell by 80% of the responses in topics like this, modern gamers really seem to prize ease of use over everything else. we may like getting a game and being told "have at it!", but most people these days prefer to hear "here is exactly what you need to do, how to do it, and where to go".

restrictions that force you to invest some thought and focus and immerse yourself into the game have been replaced by restrictions that just prevent you from doing what the developers dont want you to. THAT is dumbing down, however much you want to abstract it away... its the difference between a poetic epic and pulp fiction; one takes its time to fully engross you into the world and story, the other gives you something to do for 30mins. the gaming industry is making the push to pulp fiction, as every new medium does once it gets popular.

just give it some time and things will iron out again...

It's funny that such a pretentious post could be made with such a callous disregard for grammar and spelling.

I would love to hear what you have to say about the specific restrictions you see in Skyrim that "just prevent you from doing what the developers dont [sic] want you to." Because I have yet to feel like my experience has been constrained in any way. Now, when I had to pre-select a class, only to discover that I really liked a skill set that I hadn't designated as "major", I found it quite restrictive. I'd even go so far as to say I found it frustrating. Combine that with needing to pull up Excel every time I wanted to figure out whether a character could be viable after 20 levels, and you have a recipe for awful gaming.

There is one thing that people universally want from their games: fun. Apparently some people (limited mainly to some people on this forum) think that tedium is more desirable than a fun gaming experience. If that's truly how you feel, I suggest buying a few textbooks instead of playing a game. Games are meant to be fun. Period.

Skyrim isn't any better when you walk into the game thinking you can be a caster that does something other than watch your summon kill everything. Exploiting 100% reduced costs is not a solution. I felt like I wasted a good 42 hours of play time. Both are these are problems with balancing and not with the system itself.

as a person that has been playing games since the Intellivision days I can say that ease of use is much better. Games are entertainment in the past they used to make games much harder to make them artificially longer and RPGs would just make you grind longer to get to the next level just to make the game feel longer than it really is. It never took much brains to play Elder Scrolls, I kinda do miss the stats but at the same time all you were really doing is just watching some numbers go up, heck I would just use acrobatics so I could level up faster by jumping around a lot then use those points on other skills now it feels like I have to spend those points more wisely and think about what I want the character to be able to do. Also I always found it annoying that you had to sleep to level up I hated that.

Something makes me think that if you were able to sink 42 hours into a character, that the balancing must be at least decent.

But I fail to see how that has anything to do with restricting your choices. You were able to choose to go any path. Even at [whatever level you are at the moment], you can start to work on raising a melee skill to complement your spells. Or you could work on Illusion. Or you could focus on getting more powerful Destruction spells. Or you could go on the forums and complain that you have to focus in more than one school of magic if you're going to only cast spells.

What made me sink 42 hours into the game was the vain hope it would get better. I can't get better spells than whatever the NPC's are selling because they aren't lying around the world like armor/weapons. Those better spells are also going to destroy my magicka pool worse than what I already have for a fraction of the damage increase. I specifically said "something other than watch your summon kill everything." IE. being able to cast myself without worrying about not having any magicka to resummon it again. The Flame Atronach does more damage than Lightning Bolt with half the skill level and no perks.

Switching to something else I haven't been using and had no need to use doesn't help get perks in it when getting skill ups in it gives far less because it's lower. I would have better luck killing something just equipping a bow with no skill whatsoever in it and kill things more effectively than any caster school. Things don't work a certain way because you want them to. There isn't an option outside of scrapping it or completely diverging from my chosen playstyle that is using multiple schools. Magicka doesn't allow that without breaking the entire system.

People give "sweeping generalizations" because when people actually post legitimate complaints against the game in a well detailed and thought out manner, all you same idiots turn around and go "HERP DERP TL;DR LOL". And that's including the times when people even defend the game but still wish to point out legit flaws (such as the horrific UI on both Console and PC).

Did you play Daggerfall with "spreadsheets" too? Or is building strawmen easier than building a logical argument?

...You never needed a spreadsheet in any ES, nor did you need to number crunch. Who were these people that couldn't understand simple numbers and representations?

Console gamers.

^^^
PC elitest.

You mean yours? I don't think it's coming from the OP.

the only thing I wish this game had, would be a general perk tree not related to the skills. What I mean is perks that can make you jump higher, or perks that can improve your sprinting speed, that kinda thing, perks only related to skills is cool but I miss some more funny and random perks aswell.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate that!

^^

this pretty much

Go to your room and spank yourself.

In Skyrim "perks" aren't perks.

In Fallout 3, perks were actually perks. Random skills and quirks that helped you in certain situations. In Skyrim, perks are used to define your character, which isn't right at all. "You can now make dragon armor" should not be a perk. "You can now enchant weapons 20% better" should not be a perk.
"You now do 20% more damage when using bows" should not be a perk. These things should all come with leveling the corresponding skill.

Hilarious, considering Fallout had perks to create things or create things better. How dare you suggest they simplify the skill system. See wutididthar?

I think it's better than ever. But to each their own.

I can only imagine the [censored]storm that would hit the forum about the game being too hard.


Simplest thing you can do is to turn off the markers. You are able to do that you know.

Exactly, people these days just want something they can pick up and play immediately. Unfortunately the amount of depth a pick up and play game has is not very much at all. Please people don't tell me how amazingly deep Skyrim is for you, I get it, it might be real deep for you, but you don't know the meaning of true depth in a game, how could you? Loathing everything getting in the way of your "pick up and play" philosophy on games.



People that games get dumbed down for. Unintelligent shallow people being catered to, causing games to be nothing more than pick up and play.

It's a sad state of affairs when I sometimes wish I was dumb. Maybe that just means I like gaming too much though hehe

I'm starting to think that it would actually cause you physical pain to provide a single specific example of what's been "dumbed down" that people will actually agree with you on.

Removing stupid, arbitrary numbers from the game isn't dumbing it down. Voice acting isn't dumbing it down. What, for the love of all that is good and holy, are these really big obvious things that the rest of us are just too dense to get?

What a egotistical load of horse[censored].



Don't worry, you got that covered.

Do you know what kind of games I enjoy? The fun kind.

I know. I know. It's kind of a revolutionary idea, and it's controversial. But I just enjoy having fun when I play a game. I'm sure I'm in the minority here.

I've played RPGs for years. And I've played all different kinds of RPGs. And you know what never made sense to me? Arbitrary numbers defining how good I am at something, regardless of what I've done in that game. You know what attracted me to the Elder Scrolls? This crazy idea that doing something made you better at it. I've been waiting since Morrowind for Bethesda to finally get rid of the last artifacts of D&D roleplaying from the game, because their intended system was always more fun for me.

Everyone who's complaining about how the game has been "dumbed down" seems to think that it's self-evident that attributes and paper dolls were necessary parts of the gaming experience. But I have yet to see a single argument that actually explains why that is. You just seem to assume that since it's always been there, it has to continue to exist. Now if you have anything valid to contribute to the discussion besides, "Look at all the fans defending the game that I don't like (but still play for hours and hours and hours); they're so stupid,"
feel free to make your point.

Can we all at least agree that Skyrim's writing staff is a myth?