I feel like I'm being treat like a ten year old :( : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:20 pm

The OP lost me when he couldnt even be bothered to spell the thread title correctly. Spelling doesnt matter, but it reflects the degree of respect and care you have for your subject.

You don t choose what you want to be at the beginning anymore its just shoved on you, absolutely no trade off. Win win solution.
Mission description are inexistent, not even the basic, it is assumed by the company that you are an illiterate moron, with ADD and others disoders, so reading its excluded because you wouldn t comprehend the sequences of sentences or even one for what matters.

funny thing is, I listen to the NPC to get the backstory of why my actions are needed. I dont need mission descriptions because Im not a "moron with ADD" who couldnt pay attention for 30 seconds and needs to be reminded constantly of why Im doing what Im doing, in detail with a mission description.

I would respond to more of your comments but much of it is utter, utter bull

Does anyone catch the irony in this thread?

There are people complaining that the game has been "dumbed down" because information is not specifically displayed on the screen.

For example: "Why did they take away the classes? Now my Nord is just like every other Nord! This is so dumbed down!" This is dumbing down? My Nord is a former mercenary who returned to Skyrim during the Stormcloak Rebellion to help free his country. You guys see that? I didn't need a class that said "mercenary" to know who my Nord is. Why? Because I used my brain.

Someday, somebody is going to have to explain to me how letting you figure things out for yourself is "dumbing it down".

Nothing wrong with removing redundant systems from the game, much like the above nicely highlights.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:24 am

This game has alot of decaptation, both by execution as well as a perk... you really think this game is designed for small kids? It's by far the most advlt content an elderscrolls game ever had, probably besides the nvde npc's of Daggerfall.

talking about the armor degradation. I'm glad it's gone. It was annoying. People say it's unrealistic... But walking with hundred hammers to repair the armor between battles is just as unrealistic (also because a suit of armor isn't repaired by just a hammer)

A big difference there isn't between the menu's and people saying that Morrowind had more information is just nonsense... They just got flashier with more pictures over the years but the amount of text remains the same (Skyrim even has 18 different perktrees, where Oblivion and Morrowind only had the name of the skill/attribute with a number next to it)

Attributes is already discussed enough... They aren't gone just replaced and renamed. Intelligence became Magicka, Endurance Health and Strenght/Agility became Stamina. Willpower was put into items like mage robes to make them usefull again, so instead of punishing the mage to wear armor, they are rewarding those who don't (it's pretty much the same system as the smithing system). Speed got removed (just as agility and acrobatics) because it was a gamebreaking which was unrealistic too. It's way better that runspeed is only influenced by the armor you wear.
and Luck, well, nobody really cared about that, and if you say you do, you're probably just lying.

Spellmaking too was removed simply because it was game-breaking and hard to make with the new spellsystem. spells are now considered as equipment and really flashy by the way, so having to combine spelleffect would have to bring tottaly new animations of say a Fire/Shock combo. There would have gone way to much effort into making all the possible combinations together with all the possible balances. (They have a hard time balancing Smithing/enchanting as it is).

Removal of classes which actually is far from a simplification. The skills are still there, and the -only- thing that's missing is the name of your class in your menu.
Because the classes are gone leveling is actually more complex instead of less.... in the previous Elder Scrolls games you simply choise some skills that form your class and every time your skills gained together 10 points you'd level up.... Now -all- skills are included in the leveling progress with calculations that your higer skills will contribute more to the level up then lower skills. This gives people two new forms of freedom:
1-They can decide to specialize in only two skills, or even ten. depending on how they want to play, and aren't confined by the fact that they either have to drag along 5 skills they could care less about, or that they have to start 3 of those skills very low, and won't let them contribute to your leveling progress.
2-People who decide mid-game to teach a new skill or start neglecting an other aren't skrewed.

And what's more to add?
O yeah:
-Much more inworld content compared to Oblivion, and almost equal amount to Morrowind (more if you consider the fact that technology is much more expensive, harder to make, and everything has to be voiced)
-Marriage
-Houses (something Morrowind had almost not unless you were a member of a Great House (or the EEC in Bloodmoon) which is quiet limiting
-Fast Travel BOTH Oblivion AND Morrowind style
-Quest Markers are OPTIONAL
-Many new books and a rich new lore covering the 200 years after Oblivion with many political parties which are never really considered pure evil
-Voice acting is more and better then any previous game used to be
-ALOT of quests, both radiant and scripted
-Ehm? Dragons, people really don't understand how extraordinary it is how they work and how IMPOSSIBLE they would be in Oblivion/Morrowind

I couldn't have typed it better, awesome post man.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:15 am

The game and quests are clearly developed for mature players, but I agree as far as choice being too restricted. Most quests only give you the choice to accept or leave mid conversation. I would've liked some differing options for character lines or options to complete quests. There's normally no chance to reason with NPCs with Speech unless it's directly presented thar you are to persuade them. New Vegas had a lot more RP options in my opinion.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:43 am

Less time number crunching so that more time is spent actually playing the game.

You mean less time thinking and more time pressing buttons...

Simplified how? What exactly does the game do that make you think it's treating you like a small child?

Because playing Skyrim requires less thinking. My primary reason for feeling like I'm being treated like a child is the loss of the attributes, I've read every ones opinions on those in this thread. When it comes to evolving my character now there is less use of my brain, I just have to pick one of three stats to put a point into, then pick a perk. If you are not one for enjoying the use of your brain this simplification will seem like they made the game more efficient ie if you don't mind the dumbing down, the dumbing down was done for you. I know that sounds quite insulting but I don't mean it to be. Think of it like this: "If you think they made Skyrim more efficient, they made it more efficient for you." I don't feel like they made it more efficient for me.

Making the menus easier to navigate, and making potion-making finally make sense may be simplifying, but that isn't even remotely the same as dumbing the game down.

Simple isn't always dumb. In fact, it's usually a lot smarter than complex.

True, simplification can easily be increasing efficiency. You could consider Skyrim being more efficient, but you would have to not like the extra thinking/consideration/preparation involved in what was removed.

simplified how? because they stripped away repair hammers n degrading items? it was a tedious chore to have to repair things constantly. having to rest in bed to level up was a good removal as well as i hated when i was in the middle of a quest n leveled up twice but it didnt count til i slept. the only thing i miss is spell crafting n more detailed quest updates, everything else is working for me

I agree the amount of repair was unrealistic and quite chore-like, it should have been reduced, leaving an extra layer of management in the game. I also agree about resting in beds.

should try MUD games... multi user dimension

text only games which were out in the 90's.... that'll help you feel more of a genius to play.

I was addicted to it, was awesome to play.

but for now... this is the next level up. No complaints from me. I prefer to play the game instead of looking at stats all day.

So do I.

This is my question too. Do you think the game is too easy? If so try the difficulty slider. Do you miss having to spend time figuring out what skills you want to take instead of just using the ones you want? I don't get your complaint.

If one finds the game too easy, increasing the difficulty will only increase the difficulty of combat, the game itself is still reduced in a few layers of complexity. There is less to take into consideration and plan for. Be aware that you yourself may only be able to see that as a good thing, maybe you think the less complex the better. I don't. (I know the complexity difference is not all that much, but games are far too simplistic I have to try to cling to it before it dies forever).

OP lost me after claiming he didn't want to be treated like a child... and then proceeded to end his title with a sad face.

Sorry about, you got, should have know not to do something only children, damn smilies giving me away

::Sniff Sniff::

Anyone else smell troll dung?

I got a wiff of it as I passed your post too.

Yes yes, optional map markers and less number crunching is certainly dumbing down. It helps my poor, confused brain.

Well that's just dandy... for you.

Does anyone catch the irony in this thread?

There are people complaining that the game has been "dumbed down" because information is not specifically displayed on the screen.

For example: "Why did they take away the classes? Now my Nord is just like every other Nord! This is so dumbed down!" This is dumbing down? My Nord is a former mercenary who returned to Skyrim during the Stormcloak Rebellion to help free his country. You guys see that? I didn't need a class that said "mercenary" to know who my Nord is. Why? Because I used my brain.

No you used your imagination. I don't want to imagine myself playing a less intellectually engaging skyrim that utilizes slightly more of my brain, I want it for real. And your description of classes itself is oversimplified, if that's your genuine perception of stats then yes they certainly do seem pointless don't they.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:39 am

first off my PC is simple and cheap so no spellcheck function just a simple word pad program. now with that out of the way.

you seem to have missinterpreted my coment on stats. i never sied anything about classes. (sort of glad their gone actualy) what i meant was yes you may call your Nord a Merc or a mage or whatever but no mater what you call him/ her its still has the exact same stats. what i meant was being able to shift a few stats here and there to say ok this guy is strong but not to smart, or weak and inteligent. to be able to "Tage" a skill or two to say he/ or she has some previous experience in it even at the cost of those pionts in another skill. this is what i meant. creating some cherecter stats that fit with the backstory you come up with.

and in every TES game i've played you could put a few pionts here and there to change up you attributes.

actualy my assasin in Morrowind used shortswords, i'm not a power gamer who goes for using a greatsword whith a stealth buil just because it did more damage. no i used a short sword because it felt right for the cherecter. the cherecter i had the most hours in used a spear and a crossbow, not because of any power or bug usage but because it felt right and i could. crossbows were atrotiously slow to load but made up for it with some extra damage. don't have that option anymore.

played Fable 3 and dind't like it.

like i sied i like the game and i am enjoying it but they made some very questionable desition. and i wish folks would stop blaming it on console gaming i'v seen an even greater trend towards simplistic and boring games in PC realm than i have for consol. its not the consol makers or players but the general trend in gaming as a whole.

What? Just what. You can't use spellcheck because your PC is bad? that, that makes no sense, web browsers such as firefox and chrome have this built in.

Yes, you my put a point or two to make your char smarter or stronger but in the end it was an arbitrary number that did nothing, I simply cannot think of anything in any Elder Scrolls where having a higher strength Ect. actually matters, there are no doors to break down, nothing to lift out of the way, all it meant was you could hit harder, no instead of having a spreadsheet tell you your strength is "65" and that means you get this much power, you pick a perk that says "hit things harder"
That actually makes sense and doesn't make me feel like I'm playing the new Conan the Accountant game.

Yes shortswords and crossbows CAN be done right, but Beth is not really known for balance if you might have seen in their other games, where spears are worthless ect. and a crossbow done right WOULD make normal bows worthless, they made then super slow in Morrowind but that was so annoying they'd have to make them faster and thus you get a fast, stronger bow.
I'm against taking things out too but I'd rather have a slightly more focused game then a cluster of unbalanced content.

Yes, I said to play Fable 3 because that is an example of taking things out wrong, they took fable two, a game already simpler then fable 1; you can't even lose for gods sake, and made it have less content, less weapons, less spells, less quests, less RPG stats(IE none at all) and most of all, less fun.
Fable three is the perfect example of how to dumb down a game, none of their changes were for the better, (No hud? no MENUS?!)

No you used your imagination. I don't want to imagine myself playing a less intellectually engaging skyrim that utilizes slightly more of my brain, I want it for real. And your description of classes itself is oversimplified, if that's your genuine perception of stats then yes they certainly do seem pointless don't they.

No offense, but you seem to not understand what an RPG is, none of roles I've played in TES games have had anything to do with the games rules, I did the kvatch quest in Oblivion then pretended I didn't do it to roleplay getting there too late to help and having someone else save the day.
You can have your stats and your dice rolls, but in the end an rpg is something you have to use your... wait for it, imagination! That my friend is the heart of an RPG.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:19 am

@OP. If you are right handed, try playing it with your mouse using your left hand. That should complicate things a bit.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:35 pm

The game would be much better without a compass aoften the NPC's described where you have to go. As is now your just talk to NPC, arrows pops up on compass, leads you directly to the item (all the way down to exact drawer), and then an arrow showing you the way back. I think if they made it a bit more challenging and fun to explore it would make this game much better.

Also, I wish the NPC's were a bit more descriptive in their quest giving so that it would be possible for a player to get where they needed to go just through dialogue.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:09 am

Because playing Skyrim requires less thinking. My primary reason for feeling like I'm being treated like a child is the loss of the attributes, I've read every ones opinions on those in this thread. When it comes to evolving my character now there is less use of my brain, I just have to pick one of three stats to put a point into, then pick a perk. If you are not one for enjoying the use of your brain this simplification will seem like they made the game more efficient ie if you don't mind the dumbing down, the dumbing down was done for you. I know that sounds quite insulting but I don't mean it to be. Think of it like this: "If you think they made Skyrim more efficient, they made it more efficient for you." I don't feel like they made it more efficient for me.

This argument makes no sense.

So there's no thinking in choosing between more survivability, more magic and more running/attack alongside with a decision of what skill to focus in, but there is thinking on choosing 3 out of 8 attributes, making it easier by choosing the one with a +5 next to it?

No, really, why does this require less thought?

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:31 am

The health regen feels dumbed down. Hopefully a mod can remove it.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:34 am

I really dislike how Skyrim has been simplified. I now feel like Bethesda is treating me like a small child and it is spoiling what could have been the best game ever. Bethesda please from now give people the option at startup to play the game in simple mode and normal mode PLEASE!

If you don't mind the dumbing down, then the dumbing down was done for you

No, you are being treated like a console player. The game has been simlified so clunky controllers and people with low attention spans can handle it.

I'm not trying to start a console war or anything, I am being dead serious. If this game was PC only the UI would be a LOT better and people wouldn't need so much hand holding. Things that are simple to do on the PC are pretty much impossible on a console system (How a bout a book that we can take notes in?)

Think of the things that piss you off the most about the game, make a list...then see where the root of the problem lies.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:29 am

No, you are being treated like a console player. The game has been simlified so clunky controllers and people with low attention spans can handle it.

I'm not trying to start a console war or anything, I am being dead serious. If this game was PC only the UI would be a LOT better and people wouldn't need so much hand holding. Things that are simple to do on the PC are pretty much impossible on a console system (How a bout a book that we can take notes in?)

Think of the things that piss you off the most about the game, make a list...then see where the root of the problem lies.

So you don't want to start a flame war, yet you claim console players have short attention span and PC players are more intelligent....

get out.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:53 pm

"Games dumbed down blah, blah blah you're all dumb for liking it blah blah blah".

Dunno TC, if you feel like you're being treated like a child maybe the treatment fits the behavior.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:10 am

The game would be much better without a compass aoften the NPC's described where you have to go. As is now your just talk to NPC, arrows pops up on compass, leads you directly to the item (all the way down to exact drawer), and then an arrow showing you the way back. I think if they made it a bit more challenging and fun to explore it would make this game much better.

Also, I wish the NPC's were a bit more descriptive in their quest giving so that it would be possible for a player to get where they needed to go just through dialogue.

The compass and the both types of quest markers are optional via .ini toggle. 1 is on, 0 is off.

[GamePlay]
bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=0
bShowQuestMarkers=1

[Interface]
bShowCompass=0

This will give no floating quest markers but leave the usual map-version ones active (and toggable in the usual manner in-game). It also turns off the compass.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:38 am

No, you are being treated like a console player. The game has been simlified so clunky controllers and people with low attention spans can handle it.

I'm not trying to start a console war or anything, I am being dead serious. If this game was PC only the UI would be a LOT better and people wouldn't need so much hand holding. Things that are simple to do on the PC are pretty much impossible on a console system (How a bout a book that we can take notes in?)

Think of the things that piss you off the most about the game, make a list...then see where the root of the problem lies.

you /fail

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:54 am

I love the game, but I do feel "dumbed out" and disappointed in a couple of ways.

1) Some of my dialogue choice situations are pretty bad. They didn't always take care to make them as neutral as possible. The Waking Nightmare quest is the strongest example that leaps to mind. My erudite mage could choose to say "Golly gee! Dreams can do that? Cool!" --> OR <-- "No way! Dreams are only imaginary!" Quotes paraphrased, but really, still pretty close to the tone projected. Seriously, that time I really did feel like my character at least was a wide-eyed 10-year-old.

This doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, it bothers me.

2) Miscellaneous quests and a total lack of journal description. I guess the argument is "if you're a smart player, you'll remember why you're supposed to do that!" I guess I'm just dumb, but having a shopping list of 20 things like "Go talk to Joe Blow", "Steal the ring from Joe Brown", "Grab the pickle jar", "Find Jane Jones", and best of all, "Go to Thumbtown" is REALLY neither evocative or engaging. Am I supposed to actively avoid new quests if I already have one? That's the only way a reasonable person is going to be able to remember all these stories and the motivations to participate in them.

So I have all these objectives, with no background reminders at all. I may remember one or two of them, even several, but I generally get new quests quicker than I can complete the old ones because there's so much content in the game. It's a little like fighting a hydra; for every head I cut off, two more appear. That's a good thing! I love having tons of content! But I don't like stories that just disappear and revert into the dumbest quest possible: "Follow this glowing arrow and see what happens", which I do find a little insulting.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:18 am

Sorry... all the ten-year-olds I know are too busy complaining about how easy Dark Souls is.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:15 pm

The OP is clearly just a much better gamer than everyone else. Superior in that they can do it the hard way, thank you very much. We get it. You rock. yawn...

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:53 am

Boring topic. Do these clowns really think the previous games were complex? I mean jeez the last thread like this I bothered to respond to had this idea that having to stop every few fights to hit your repair hammer over and over required some amount of significant thought. Do you guys need to remind yourselves to breathe?

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:06 am

Hey,

Quick insight:

Is it me or do the mindless companions fight all your fights for you?

Not only that but boy ARE THEY NERFED!

Peace and Skyrim :wink_smile:

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:42 am

So what exactly is dumbed down?
Attributes made the game annoying at times when you got [censored] bonuses.
Do you dislike fast travel? Don't use it.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:32 am

@Zombra
I almost lost my [censored] when you said "Get the pickle jar" Lmao.
Funny comments were funny

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:01 am

:wink_smile:

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:05 pm

Morrowinds UI seemed like a chore. I like Skyrims interface much more.

While intuitive and sleek on consoles, Skyrims UI is atrocious for PC users.

God Bethesda, come on. We've gotten you so far, and then you screw us over with this crappy port. I guess you know the modding community will fix all of your mistakes right?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Less time number crunching so that more time is spent actually playing the game.

exactly the only thing i find insulting in this game is the child npcs.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4VbOHvaPRc&feature=fvst WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!