Trust me, they're out there. If I could take you back to my Quake 3 days, I'd prove it. I have gotten really rusty lately, though. Real-life happens, you know? :3 Still, talented FPS players come from both sixes.

Why exactly do you feel you need to prove something at the moment? And where? In what sort of situations do men disregard your opinion about games to the extent that your words simply don't carry weight, assuming they have the substance?

I personally know of about 4 female gamers and I'm married to one. I know that female gamers can be just as amazing at games as men, but I also know a lot of woman gamers who simply ride the woman-card everywhere they go to get attention. Not saying everyone does it, but the ones who do really smudge the credit for the rest.

maybe if girls want women gamers to be more represented then more women should get into making games etc? for me adding female models will use up more system resources and dev time due to model limitations, added hitbox code, voice acting etc etc. its actually lots of extra work, considering how low powered xbox and ps3 are in contrast to PC. and also for realism would they slow down the femail models and make them less strong? thats just going to cause issues with balance.

I remember reading about a ad Sony ran in India for the PS2, its slogan was: "PS2, because your girlfriend bores you s***less".

Awful I know, but I still found it funny... :3

EDIT: Found http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2007/06/playstation_pla :3

Oh I've never said they're not out there, my point was, they are so few and far between, as to basically be non-existent to most people, myself included.

:) thats because all the real FPS gamers were playing UT

j/k UT actually had plenty of female characters

I guess all in all, there needs to be a demand for female models, and that demand simply has to equate to profits to warrant the extra cost and time of development.

Set up some sort of website that tracks female voters for games, and inclusion of female models, report the demand to devs, and see what the response is.

With regards to "proving" things, I was referencing your earlier comment, "Show them that you do by talking eloquently about them or if you're on a LAN, play well..."
In my original post, I mentioned that I am frequently assumed to be an unskilled gamer and not knowledgeable because of my gender. It does happen, however people choose to view it, the stereotype is out there.
As for whether I am "riding the woman-card," that's up to your opinion I suppose. It's not my intention, and I feel I've done a good job of supporting my views. People who do "ride it" are largely responsible for the perpetuation of the stereotype that has me irked in the first place.

That's nonsense. Richard Ham said himself that they were in the process of making female characters and discussed it in depth with Bethesda but opted for male-only because they didn't feel they had the time to fully commit to doing it, it was entirely possible and the problems they faced could have been solved (Richard Ham's words) but they would have half-assed it due to the timeframe they had to polish the game.

The three platforms could have easily supported those additions. Brink is not a giant game. A giant game would come on three dvds like L.A Noire for XBOX (so I hear) and one bluray disc for PS3.

I didn't claim you were doing it, I simply pointed out that many do and they screw all the proper girl gamers.

But what you need to realize is that men have to prove their worth as well, that's why I said that "talking eloquently" part. If I enter a conversation about games with complete strangers they always assume superior knowledge, that's the most common thing anyone confident does in any situation. But once I start to drop some knowledge I often see their attitudes change as they realize that I actually do know something about games.

So it is actually a little bit counter-productive to assume that people disregard you by default because you're a girl, since it is often the first thing anyone does in any situation. It is up to you to show them that you DO know about games, not up to them to assume that you do.

The main constraint for inclusion of female models in a game like BRINK would be the complete overhaul of the character customization system to account for two different model shapes. Or bypassing that, creating entirely different systems for each of the sixes.

You all can see that the effort required would be no less than substantial.

I think in the main the stereotypes are there. The gaming community is packed with immature teenage boys who assume girls can't play. I game regularly with my sister and she experiences that stereotypical view on a regular basis - if they're not challenging her ability to "keep up" (before even seeing her play) then they're chatting her up. Then when they go out of the lobby and into the game, she tops the scoreboards and they refrain from calling her a girl gamer but do increase their "flirting" which is embarrassing and totally pathetic to the point that she never speaks through her headset unless it's me and her in a private squad with friends we know who aren't patronising, sixist, abusive or prejudiced like many little boy gamers that swarm the lobbies of top games.

She was a COD player primarily and I lured her into BC2, and never played COD again. So I tried luring her to Brink and told her about the customisation element which interested her, but once I told her there were no females she was immediately put off. Letting her play the game might change that but she still sees it as a real letdown and I can understand it.

I'm not saying that men don't have their own hurdles to overcome, or that women have it rougher or any sort of misguided ranting like that. That's all up to opinion and quite frankly I don't agree with any of it. All I am attempting to say is that there is a stereotype that girls are less interested in video games, and I feel it influenced the developers' choice to not include female character models ingame. I wanted my opinion to be heard, and it was. My dislike for the stereotype I deal with is really peripheral to the issue. I was using it to illustrate my main point.

If you want to be recognized as just a "gamer" and not a "girl gamer" then you should take the steps necessary to not stand out. If you want to fit in with the crowd, you should have no problem playing as a guy in a video game. It's not like it even really changes the experience. It's not like you'll notice a difference when it comes to actual gameplay. If you really don't want to be set apart from the rest you would be perfectly fine with being a male character and understanding that the gaming industry is highly dominated by males. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not, just expressing my point of view.

COD and BF don't have female characters, why was it so important in Brink? My wife is an awesome gamer, when we still played wow, she would always be the best at what she did and people would praise her. She never ever felt the need to tell anyone that she is a girl, she was happy just playing the game as a gamer like everyone else.

Voice chatting is indeed one of those things that you can't really do without getting "busted as a girl" to the guys, but is voice chat really that necessary? I personally never use voice chat except when playing matches with friends.



Well it has already been covered that it's not the case with Brink. And I would argue that it's not the case in most games, if any. Developers don't cut out female characters because they think that men don't want to play them and since women don't play that much, female characters aren't needed. There are mainly no female characters in war games because wars are primarily fought by men, or at least have been in the past.

Here's my question for you. How do you think it will affect your enjoyment of the game? Do you think you will play less often? Would it have more replay value to you if you had a female avatar? These are the kinds of things that need to be quantified by developers when they design games, if they don't, I can't see how they can claim to be including female gamers at all.

I have no doubt many girls will try Brink and find they like it, but I wonder how long they will stick around before they find something more compelling or personally engaging.

It's a matter of immersion. Identifying with the character in a game greatly improves the sense of immersion and suspension of disbelief for some people, and it can be counterproductive to have an avatar you can't identify with.
Again, this part is just opinion. I feel I speak for a large number of people when I express it, however.

It has been established that the pros and cons of female avatars versus more customization for the existing ones was weighed and decided on in a non-demographic-related fashion during development. It's the design choice I'm challenging, not the actual development cycle. I'm referring to the choice made during the concept stage. Again, it's the developer's choice, and I'm going to love the game either way. My only intention here was to make an opinion known. If nobody ever speaks their mind, then nobody will think they care.

So Wanderneko... this is abit off topic but... will you be playing resistance or security? I'm just curious. Resistance here :3

Probably Resistance :3 I VASTLY prefer their character designs to Security.

Cool, I'll see ya on the field then mate. :>

Yep, see you all online! My gamertag is the same as my forum name, so look me up :3

not to sound selfish but it would be kind of a waste if this was all they put in new maps and such as less than 25% of people playing brink are girls and even less will buy it and only creeper guys would buy it. so it would be a huge loss for splash and bethesda

It was more important in Brink because the game offers the option of customising your character. It isn't based on modern warfare, no front-line army stuff. Plus, COD, MOH and BC are some of the games she's bought and played because they're trusted titles (usually) and there aren't too many obvious competitors. Brink however is fresh, new and from a relatively inexperienced developer so she was never interested in it whatsoever - mainly because she doesn't buy too many games and because she can't afford too many games and would rather trust putting her money into a trusted title.

We find voice-chatting to be a crucial part of our co-op multiplayer experience. Directing each other, talking team-work, networking with other people in other parts of the World etc. It's a joy! We've made a small network of friends just by gaming, people that we then chat to off the console and in person. It's not necessary but when you've got a ￡60 headset and like the advantages of it, then it's useful.

She just has to mute the idiots, so in COD that's literally muting every single player squealing, singing and shouting down their 'sets. That won't be a problem in Brink because you can only hear your friends (unless you change the settings). But she has certainly felt her brunt of sixism, patronising and prejudice simply through trying to get a few entertaining games on a console - so I can see the stigma attached to female gamers who don't want to be shut out by the minority of fools and the majority of traditional "gamers".

And it's a shame because most female gamers I've played with (easy!) online have been much more mature and friendly than your average guy.

The bottom line for me is that it's unfortunate SD couldn't implement the feature of female character creation and acknowledge why they're not in it. The probability of DLC is very slim but if there's a Brink II then it'll be an option they can't ignore.

A huge detriment to this movement is the number of female PC gamers.
You want action? Better get where it's at. PC game development, and it's community is at the forefront of game design (also been around the longest). A console player will not be taken really that seriously imo.

BTW, here's a http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1187148-female-character-dlc-a-girls-eye-view/page__st__140 with a positive spin on the situation.