while money is a shared resource.... they would both be profitable endeavors... so both would actually ADD to the monetary resource... potentially

I'll vote for a map pack first, sure... but I'd still love to see females added

Meh,I wouldn't mind equal numbers male and female characters, I'm an equal opportunity fragger. What harm could it do , it's a video game.

Besides if I'm going to spend hours in front of the monitor I might as well get some eye candy while I'm at it.

Anyone remember Feral from SOCOM on the PS2?

Who says they couldn't release maps and female characters Valve seemed to do that pretty well..... course they didn't add a whole new gender to the game, but you get the point TF2's big updates had a bit of everything in them.

each additional model (female body or vehicle) requires it's own animation, textures, shaders etc. These things use resources in the game that has finite resources, while PCs are some what upscalable, consoles are not. Xbox 360 has 512 MB RAM, PS3 has half that,

according to Brink standards, i'd put her between medium and heavy, more to the medium side really

Come on everyone knows the Pyro is female and the Value team were too lazy to create a real female character. :wink_smile:

Maybe they'll release female characters with some kind of HUUUUGE patch but it's probably not going to happen.

That's a good point, I suppose it depends on how Brink handles player models. Obviously the basic body type and animation is doubled but I don't know about the arbitraments and what not - presumably Brink can run well with sixteen very different looking players so adding a gender option might not increase the load that much.

For PCs this doesn't seem like it would be a problem at all but when you throw consoles into the mix they might have a little bit more trouble with that..... I dunno I'm not a console expert but I know they can't have insanely huge patches from what I heard..... don't hate me if I'm wrong.

it's not just different looking (skins are easy), it's the separate animations that can eat the resources especially with vehicles that have a more sophisticated (think physics) and therefore more resource hungry animation model. The game engine has to calculate all animations. Now on PC with it's upscalability ie: more RAM, SLI video etc I could see a mod possibility, for consoles it would be very hard

Indeed I would have to agree here, we all know that Female characters will not be available at launch. Although I can see Female characters very viable as a DLC after launch so that the dev team can take the time and be able to the female characters to the quality that they want them to be. Even if the Female character DLC cost $20 bucks I'd still pay for it.


from - http://brink.chefenco.com/splash-damage-explains-the-lack-of-female-characters/ (the FAQ link)

While I agree with their decision and completely understand the reasoning behind it. After Brink is launched the should have plenty of time to work on the female characters to have them as a very viable DLC, sense they originally did want to have female characters in the game and were able to work out most of the problems with physical appearance and hitbox issues so hopfuly with the extra time that they will have after Brink launches they will have the time to properly complete the female characters.

Well basicaly what i'm trying to say is that while wanting to do both male and female characters, what I got from what they stated is that they didn't have the time and resources to do the proper justice to both genders for Brink. So they fully invested in one gender thus the chose to go with the Male so that they could fully expand and explore a vast character creation and customization for that gender, but when the game releases Splash Damage will hopefully be able to have the time and resources available to be able to do the full justice to the female characters to the same degree they did with the male characters.

On a side note I would really like to see the Concept Art they did for the female characters.

Hell yeah i wouldn't mind waiting for female DLC pack.

(either i pointed out something obvious or maybe i'm wrong but in the Halo games, Arn't the humans smaller than the elites? or does the spartan suit make them as tall as the elites.
I'm just wondering, because the hit box and all.....ye...i'll be waiting for the female DLC... :dance: )

Kudos for looking it up.

Not everyone seems to be as understanding as this forum. I'm glad to see others will discuss the technical implications.
1. Double resources
2. Art/Aesthetics
3. Hitboxes
4. Gameplay (not rpg)

You would be surprised how many others believe these are lies to actually hide a social commentary. I can't tell the ignorant ranting vs trolling, but this this subject is often brought up regardless. I don't understand how anyone can insist it's all lies or how the decision must have social implications. They're not trying to promote masculinity, homosixism, or anti-feminism. They're just making a video game. Most of the reasons I've read seem to come from people not aware of their own social issues. While they want to believe they're a more pleasing character to look at, they also want more attention to the fact they chose female. The internet is never taken seriously so masquerading males are more common than actual females. Then others want to show how they have a girl friend as a female avatar to accompany their own male avatar. It gives them a social "one-up" to the other gamers who can't see that the relationship is being treated as an online trophy. Complaining how this game won't be that outlet for them is petty.


That's the key to hit boxes that most I think do not understand. Ideally everyone should have a balance of surface area vs hitpoints. So the light characters are faster, thinner, harder to hit, but have less HP as a balance.

No game has been done like Brink before, so females avatars would have to be more than just reskinned males. Brink has enough factors where simply doing 1:1 for balance and social neutrality would not feel like Brink anymore. Most of the females would be light so that would be turning a size class into a gender. Meaning every time you spot a female they have the same clothing options, weapon selection, and agility. With experience you could predict the play style of any female if it were that way. While it may be closer to realism, it does have social stigmatisms. Heavy females being 1:1 with the heavy males would imply obesity and/or steroid abuse. Obesity honestly would not only have odd aesthetics, but also would not fit the game's fast paced guerrilla combat. Fantasy games usually get around this by making big strong females some orc or other "tough" race.

The only way I see heavy females is doing what's always been done in games; exaggerate everything giving appeal to carnality. All the females would look like characters from Heavy Metal. Since Brink seems post apocalyptic it would fit into place with everything else. But generally that sort of portrayal of females is frowned upon. It's clichéd now to do that in video games. How many would say "if I had known they were going to make them like that they should have not done it"? Both genders could be fairly represented this way. And if they do it this is probably how it will be done. So I can't imagine how "cute" or "petite" could ever emanate. I can't say what opinion women would have on that.

The strongest point I see is that females in Brink would be for more graphics/art and not contribute to the gameplay. Brink is not a RPG so no one is really missing out. Everyone could have been a gender neutral robot/clone/alien and the gameplay would not change.

I have high hopes for this game. Personally I'd buy a DLC release, but don't demand or expect one.

tl;dr

Females...
...not being present bother many
...make us wonder about hit boxes and other balancing
...should be in a DLC
...will be like Heavy Metal

The PS3's CPU has more than enough power to run with both genders, I'm not sure about the x-box but it's not impossible. Seeing females as DLC is feasible but i'm not sure it is or should be a priority.

who cares really?
they are trying to make the game run as smoothly as possible..
if you want a game like this, with females in it, make one yourself, see how easy it is to do..
then everyone will play your game, right?
a DLC would be cool, but i'm sure they'd want to make it perfect before releasing it

we want the best game possible, and if it means no female characters, so be it, you can't always have everything you want

Of course it does. That isn't the problem, the problem is they have to do a whole other gender. Its like starting from scratch with nothing to start with. Then the game would have to be pushed back.

if we all just stay happy and buy the game and promote to friends I am almost positive theyll be implemented in a sequal/prequal/sidestory/following game/illl stop

Let me just add a friendly PSA, that a discussion about gender choice in BRINK is fine, and most of you have been having a pretty civilized discussion. I just want to reiterate that just because a woman (or a dude, for that matter) voices dismay at not having gender choice in BRINK does not mean we don't understand the design decision. We are as capable of reading the available info as anyone else. :rolleyes: Be respectful of each other, even if you disagree. Thanks.

wait a second guys...do we want more guns, more maps, more gameplay and possibly even more customization, or some girl models? seriously, EVERY girl ive asked couldnt care less if when the play a game they have to play a guy...

Id rather more gameplay than another gender

When someone says "______ has women in it, so Brink should be able to. Q.E.D. Brink's devs are ____" actually shows they don't have an understanding. The fact female characters are in other games is the entirety of some people's argument. I point this out because Brink has so many customization options for simultaneous display that no other multiplayer game can really compare quite so easily. Like you said, the design choice is easily read about or watched in the videos. So either it's used as a quick trolling topic or someone will have a true opinion they don't care to articulate very well. When that happens we assume they lacked the knowledge and want to help recover their favor of Brink. Perhaps this community has lesser examples, but other places aren't as civil.

tl;dr

We shouldn't let someone convince themselves to dismiss Brink solely on the lack of women.

Interestingly I haven't seen anyone in this thread dismiss Brink solely on the lack of female characters. So that leaves no purpose for such behavior except to argue. This is just a thread to express the desire to have such and why in future games/dlcs not to debate it.

That doesn't mean no one would ever claim that. I'm not trying to present a debate but cover all grounds of the matter. Those who knowingly/unknowingly submit inappropriate posts and still dwell on it can consider what I've added to the topic. I believe others have tried to present some of my points but were too brash about it.

The wonderment is would females be added as new gameplay elements or simply as additional meshes with balanced traits? I think the fact so many have asked the former shows great respect for the design of Brink. It has more detail than anyone could observe from a single video clip. More variables are expected because of how much has been demonstrated. Because of today's social progress it would be probable the latter concept is used. How exactly that would be accomplished is something only the professional designers and programmers know. As gamers we can only give feedback on the result. A lot posts on this forum are made with the basis of "helping the professionals start on the correct foot." Even though we're not professionals and they started years ago.

Off topic discussion removed. Please if you have any argument with moderator directions, send them a pm and don't discuss it here as it's off topic for this discussion.

With so many challenges and seemingly impossible gameplay mechanics the world of gaming has managed to overcome, I don't think "but making animations for women is complicated" is a good excuse. I get the "we don't have time for this right now", a lot of work had been put on the mechanics of the game to make it flow the way they intended.
But faced with such difficulties as the terrain and the smart reaction, making female animation is less difficult. It's just as difficult as making male ones, and they have succeeded at that, haven't they? Female movement is not something completly alien to animators.
So I completely support including female characters in future content, but they have to really really commit to it, I hate when developers state that they will think about the possibility of maybe perhaps eventually consider it. That usually means NO, never. I would love to play that game, but as long as it's a sausage fest I'm not touching it, I'm tired of being thrown testosterone at my face.
When big boys like Halo and Gears of war put the option of playing a female character it gives me hope that at last gaming is not putting females into a separate gamer category, and I really hope that trend sticks. I'm not into rainbows and ponies, I like gore, horror, shooting and action, while identifying with the character I play, and I know I'm not alone. Don't ignore us. I'm tired of seeing women having to beg and putting cherries on top to be considered, we shouldn't have to crawl while the guys roar and laugh at our wish to "pway with the pewpew guns and kiw, awww how cute"; I have read many threads on the subject and too many trolly happy statements like that were made.

signed: a 3D artist who understands the work of it all, but who can still have an opinion on decisions made by gaming companies.