The Fallout Bible was an attempt to sort out some ambiguities and inconsistencies in the Fallout world in preparation for Fallout 3. It was imperfect and unfinished, yes, but keep in mind that it was a joint effort between Avellone and the fans, who often know a setting better than people officially in charge of it (and Bethesda also used The Vault wiki for the same purpose). Bethesda also followed the Fallout Bible in most places (especially the timeline).

tl;dr, what an exercise in futility. why do I bother?!

Yet here I go, being a [censored], this is all I'll say:

1. You're expecting Beth to follow Avellone's bible to the letter, ridiculous. They have NO REQUIREMENT TO DO SO. When the rights were sold, they could've made it a stipulation if they really wanted it that way.

2. Mariposa and West Tek....close, even if 200 miles apart. A smart government doesn't put super important research that close. The government/Enclave scattered around the entire globe according to Avellone before the bombs, including the oil rig for this VERY REASON. So it makes perfect sense that 87 would be that far away with the FEV. Beth didn't explain it, oversight but oh well it happens.

3. [censored]ing about is obnoxious and changes nothing. Do something more constructive. Make a game you want, or don't play it. Why would you constantly discuss a game you don't like? At least Ausir here doesn't disregard the entire thing, you seem to.

4. Radiation would be almost everywhere and it's kind of silly Fallout 1 didn't since it was closer to the war. Fallout 3 got it more right based on what people thought atomic fallout would be.

5. Have fun complaining, adios!

Oh come on, it wasn't that long. I even broke up the paragraphs to make it easier reading! Not to mention that when discussing the lore behind the game, you should be ready for long posts :facepalm:

Now I know why Fallout 3 has a character limit in dialogue lines. Anything longer would be tl;dr for the target audience.



They didn't actually have parallel FEV research in West Tek and Mariposa. FEV research was transferred to Mariposa by the military, not branched there.



Nope, it wouldn't. Just look at how Chernobyl or Hiroshima look like nowadays. In fact, according to Tim Cain, Fallout 1 was deliberately set *that long* after the Great War so that the radiation itself would be mostly gone, but its effects would be seen in various mutations.

Chernobyl is a bad example since it's a very, very different ecosystem and very special. Not to mention I watched a documentary where some guy went there with a Geiger counter and couldn't stay too long though it safe for periods. Plus 1 reactor meltdown versus thousands of megatons, plus different concept of radiation. Furthermore, Tim Cain doesn't matter. Bethesda could change how the radiation behaves to make the game different, and they did. It's much cooler to have to know drinking the water can hurt you, and isn't just health in abundance for example.

Fallout 3 svcks hooray! I bid adieu, this argument is the very definition of pointless!

;)

I still think that the argument to disallow something because "there is no support for it" in canon is weak. Canon cannot describe the complete universe, any more than the limits of human understanding can describe our universe.

In terms of FEV, canon stops at Mariposa. Does the world end at Mariposa?

IIRC It was safe to enter Hiroshima even shortly after the bomb was dropped. Also, nice job "leaving" the thread twice now. Can't forget the large amounts of strawman, either.

It's a matter of capitalizing on someone else 's efforts without really contributing with something equally imaginative of your own. The way I see it FO3 is a rehash of the older games. A dim witted rehash.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself - it's not so much "there's no support for it, so it can't exist" so much as that now the "burden of proof" is on Bethesda's shoulders. FEV was kind of a big deal in the older Fallouts. It was also kind of well-documented - where it came from, what it was used for, where it ended up and how. Sure, alot of what you come across in the games is soft sci-fi technobabble along the lines of how the Warp Drive works in Star Trek. But the point is it's there.

When you wipe out the Supermutant threat in Fallout 1, they explain why happened to the Supermutants and where they went through the course of Fallout 2.

In Fallout 3 - it's all just "there." I was actually kind of looking forward to seeing how Bethesda managed to connect a lot of this stuff. And by moving to the East Coast, there were only so many things they needed to "link." Basically just how the Supermutants, FEV, and the like got there. Throughout the game, they even hint at a "Supermutant Plan" (or at least I was getting the sense of a buildup to some sort of revelation at some point in the game.) But it just never materialized.

I mean, they went the extra mile with the Brotherhood, and I don't have a problem with that. (I actually thought that was kind of neat, personally.) But if they just showed up in the game under Lyons' command with no explanation as to why the big change of philosophy, how they got there, and what they were doing there in the first place - I might not have felt to kindly toward those changes. But they explained in-game what was going on, and I'm fine with it.

I just would have liked it if they had gone that far with the other major elements of the game. I mean, I still don't know what's up with the Enclave still being a major force after the events of Fallout 2. I'm not saying there's no way they could still be around (it's concievable my character in FO2 only dealt them a major blow and that they had other resources to fall back on) but that's still just a rationalization until Bethesda decides it's worth filling in the blanks.

of cp8irse an explaination would be nice.


considering there are a slew of fallout games set to come out under gamesas, do you think it may be possible for it to be explained?
i think there is still time.

the F-bible wasnt made until well after F1 and F2, ramping up for three someone stated ablove...... so lets not go about assuming that even 1 and 2 were on the up and up with each other from the gate.

we are looking at a franchise change of hands.. and considering the original owners even played around with how to make things theyd done a fit, i should say theyre entitledto some slack.

its callous to say that there was no thought put into it. this is a massive game with a lot of detail. a lot of side quests, unmarked quests, hidden gems and all.. a lot to look at.

no, i didnt mis-read. someones been in to change it..


this is why i mention suspect credibility of wiki pages.

i do suppose i will have to change my sig now.

but thats all im saying.. is that there is a hole, so its not airtight..

The only difference between Chernobyl and Hiroshima is that one was the site of a nuclear attack, and the other, a nuclear powerplant meltdown.

The effects of Chernobyl is so long term because of the fact that there is a damaged reactor there. There was one such reactor in all the Fallouts, the reactor at GECKO, if I'm not mistaken. Radiation elsewhere would be mostly gone by the time Fallout 1 starts. Which it was.



Tim Cain doesn't matter? Well, that supports putting F3 in it's own continunity even more if they ignore his contributions lol.


Pointless because you can't come up with a decent counterargument? Oh snap.



:lmao:

Kinda like how my friend skips all the good parts of Resident Evil 5. Documents? Who needs to read documents? Skip skip skip skip. Nevermind that they provide the backstory to the enitre game :facepalm:

ya, youve done wonders in this thread

*sigh*

No, no one changed it. You can actually see the revision history of the article on the wiki. You did misread it.

FEV showing up suddenly on the East Coast (and the supermutant plan) isn't impossible, but it is lazy on Bethesda's part.

That is the epitome of what this thread endorses, I'm afraid

"I wants fact"

"okaies, heer they arr"

"no I don't likes them, I wants to speculate"

"okaies, lets duuu that"

"nuu lets not, you're an idiot, I wants fact"

"...okaies, you're stuupid?"

"uuuu have no imajinayshun, go awai"

And so on.

ya, nice try..

one last time, so you dont confuse anymore people with your lack opf cocmprehension......


i want facts from those saying that it is not possible for FEV to be in 87.. "can't" is an absolute and therefore requires absolute facts. this is what you cannot speculate on, as speclation isnt facts.

on the flipside, i have provided facts that allow the possiblility for FEV to be in 87. not the facts but the reason that it is there is what can be speculated.

so.. just to sum up. if you want to speculate reasons that FEV is in 87, knock yourself out..
but if you want to say that its not possible for it to be there/that it goes against the story, i want facts.

The problem is LACK of FACTS, the result of incomplete canon, as canon usually are. One faction is arguing that if it isn't in canon, it's impossible, and another faction argues that ther is nothing in canon that would preclude FEV on the East Coast. It's more a matter of intereptation than anything else, and we have a very similar ongoing argument with Constitutional law here in the States. Nothing new here, but don't claim a position of facts, because there are no facts strong enough to avoid honest debate.

Oh noes, my lack opf cocmprehension..

You're no-one to demand anything. You're just as significant as I am on these forums. We're both just forum cattle.

I don't see why the topic of FEV is so close to your heart. But I'll say this: There are no facts in possibilities, that statement is completely contradictory. Facts are undeniable truths, possibilites are speculative. Therefore, you can't provide facts on possibilities, all you can do is provide absense of proof, which - as it still applies in this discussion - is not proof of absense.

What you're demanding is a one-sided discussion. You're happy to accept unclarified theories on why FEV could be in Vault 87, but not to support the scenario that FEV couldn't be there. Though when we know - as the facts dictate - that FEV was transfered to Mariposa, yet it exists in a completely unsupported nature in Vault 87, well lets just say its typical someone would come along and demand such an exploitation of selective speculation on one side of the argument, and not the other.

So as I've been saying all along, the topic is a joke. It's just one-sided bias.
Yes, Kjarista. I understand that perfectly. But are we to ignore lack of facts on both sides, or just on the side that has some fact applied to it. Bethesda is the only party to blame for the lack of factual consistency in their new canon. Again, contradictions aside, they still choose not to link it all together. And also, as I have said, canon exists to be consistent and factual within itself, otherwise there is no point in its significance.

The only FACT is that FEV was transferred to Mariposa.

The story ends there. We have no idea what happend NEXT. That is, again, all we KNOW is that the FEV program was transferred.

We could either say that something, or nothing happened AFTER that. Either argument workss ans there are NO FACTS to support otherwise.

Againnnnnn....I understand that perfectly, Kjarista. OP is demanding facts on one side, and accepting theorem on the other. Therein lay the inevitable flaw.

Is this still going on?

A negative is rather hard to prove: Prove Bigfoot DOESNT exist - Prove Aliens DONT exist - notice how hard?

Can it be 100% proved that FEV cant exist on the East cost according to lore - No. The Light Bulb was independently developed in two different places, and its not the only thing that has been.

Was it lazy? I'll give points there, it was kinda lazy... But it wouldnt be fallout without FEV/SuperMutants (We'd need some other mutant source).

Apparently so. Roll on 200.

I disagree that Fallout is all about FEV and Super Mutants. Fallout 1, of course. But the series is not cerntered around an ongoing battle between human and mutant kind. Fallout 2 rarely focused on Mutants and FEV, but they were still there in-game, and Marcus added alot of flavour to the events of FO1. But I hardly, if ever, bumped into hostile muties in the wasteland. FEV could have come to the east coast after the Master's remnants traveled with a few vats of the goo to a more opportunistic location. We're aware that the Master's army had access to at least one fully workable vehicle, even if we don't see these in-game. As far as I'm aware, the Vault Dweller didn't destroy the cathedral or Mariposa whilst any vehicles were present. It would also fit in very well with Fallout 3's two centuries later fiasco. As that's plenty of time for remnants of an army to migrate and restart operations elswhere, the Enclave did it afterall, apparently. FEV didn't need to be a Vault experiment, which would have been much less of a headache to begin with.

But there I go, using my imagination again..

I'm not saying that... Just that if they werent there at all it wouldnt be right.

The mutants in Tactics kinda seemed a bit forced to me, and I think walking all the way to DC would seem even more so.