youve got it twisted

I agree them being there in some form or another would have been fitting. But another army, another pre-war hive of FEV for them to originate from, it's all too convenient. Again, the remnants could have driven to DC with more FEV, it's been established the Master's Army had use of vehicles, and with two centuries to act, there would be more than enough consistency in their DC presence.

I should also mention that the Master's FEV (FEV2) was the result of much tweaking and perfecting for the desired results and for a lesser result of utter failure. If we are to assume that the Vault 87 FEV is pre-war, and likely the pure strain, then why are the results very smiliar to the ones of the master? It was also estalished that such results came from direct and luxurious contact with the substance, there were no vats that I could see in Vault 87. Therefore the FEV was either applied in the air, or injected into the subject, both methods often unsuccessful compared to dipping. And without vats, how then do centaurs exist in DC, as they are a direct result from litterally throwing all manner of creatures into a vat, mixing them around, and hoping for the best. I also fail to see how, considering the lack of intelligence of all mutants in DC (except the more friendly ones, strangely enough), they could have continued to understand the research and application of such a process.

I definitely have not. Unless you care to explain yet again that you demand fact in relation to FEV staying at Mariposa, yet will accept any loose thread that places it at Vault 87.

Ya.

We must all be bored.

Kickstand27 - those who felt there was no logical connection between Vault 87 and the situation as we last knew it by the end of Fallout 2, provided you with the proof that was adequate for their own needs. You didn't feel it was enough. This was the stuff that made up their mind about the issue, and it didn't serve to change your mind. (Big suprise, too. Because honestly, and I don't mean this as knock against you personally, I don't think anyone ever has changed their mind about something on a forum. It just doesn't tend to work like that.)

You have your rationalizations for why Vault 87 makes sense. But let's face it - without any sort of supporting details, it's going to remain as that. The fact is that Vault 87 had FEV. The hows and whys are probably simply because Todd and Co saw Alien: Ressurection and wanted to put some icky failed experiments into the game. They don't exactly go out of their way in the game to link the situation to existing "canon." This works for you, and that's fine as well. (I would have liked a bit more details to this, but it's not like I'm personally losing sleep over it, either...)

So yes, the facts are that in Fallout 3, Vault 87 has FEV. But anything beyond that is just going to be a rationalization, at best. There is no "right" side to this debate, the way I see it. There's not enough "proof" to get everyone to agree that it's not a fit to existing lore. (And honestly - even after reading back through, I didn't see a whole slew of people saying there was no room for different interpretations - so much as people either taking the bait and running with it, or saying that Bethesda simply didn't provide enough background information.) And I don't see any reason why Bethesda couldn't possibly come up with an imaginative explanation for this stuff - only that they didn't seem to bother to.

Frak - double post...

I like how you ignored me poking at your fav game, mostly because i think you can't prove me wrong, and I can't prove me right and you know it.
because its the exact same thing you are doing here, as it ahs been pointed out several times, and you have been questioned on it as well.\

by the way I really can't believe with the enormous ammout of data you have been provided and the ammount of times you have been called out that you refuse to see things any different.

so go on, call me a snoby old hard core fan, what ever that means to you, I do not care, call me what ever you want, the point remains is that you have been provided with plenty of reason why, data and back ground on it and flip flop from one thing to the next, dancing around it to avoid the things people have said.



here you go.


Kain was person of questionable taste in consensual parteners, and those who where not as old as he ( I wrote that in code to avoid saying something in a bad way ) and that is why he was murdered.
The assassins killed him, he angered the wrong crowd and made the wrong move on the wrong people.


Raziel was a preist, one of the bad kind you read about in the news, and was punished for what he done, his tragic nature comes from doing the things he done as a preist and a sort of fallen angel way, and his broken wings symbolise what he could have been.

Now show me ANY where that there is direct lore/cannon to prove what I said other wise? If you can I will be susprised, cause I done some of my own digging, and my own interpreting of the story.

I say it is so, and that is why they are what they are now, I can't prove it, and you can't dis-prove it.
That is what you are doing to us in a fashion.


cheers!