look make up whatever scnarios you wantl. the loopholes are there.
it cant go against lore if theres a way to go around it.



again it was an undisclosed person who leaked the info.
we can speculate all day, but the loophole for a case to be made is there.


you simply cant prove prove that it is out of canon or lore.
it cant be done.
nothing you say refutes any of the possible ways that have been given within the lore that exists previous to f3

Sure it can. It's obvious what they meant by leaked.

Without any explaination of how FEV ended up in the Capital Wasteland, it's inconsistent with the other games, which clearly said the research was only in a few specific locations. They really didn't leave any room for it to be taken elsewhere.

it is obvious what it meant by leaked.. whats not obvious is who the person was or what kind of access they have to FEV or FEV related materials. another thing that is obvious is that they would have to have some substantial information on FEV in order to prove that it existed and not be declaired looney.....

This is still going on? Of all the arrogant topics that demand such clarity in the face of such triviality, this is by far the most amusing.

Clearly the OP has made up his/her mind. And more than likely had done so before the topic was even created. This is nothing more than an opportunity to get a rise from anyone who would attempt to offer even a hint of any opposing ideal and opinion.

Some of us care about canon, the majority don't. This contrast isn't important enough to warrant any investment of logical exchange, as clearly neither party cares about the point of the view of the other. We are all set in our ways, evidently.

Just let this topic die.

Dude just give it up. You're not gonna change any minds concerning the canon. I think the inconsistency can be explained in two ways:

1-Bethesda wanted to give the fans something to think about concerning the canon of the series.

2-Because they are a growing company AND this is their first shot at a fallout title, there were bound to be some canon mistakes. Even if they were some larger mistakes.

Remember this is a game. Developers want their fans to fill in gaps where necessary. AND this isn't the original developers any more. If they came in and found a way to fix all these concerns then this would all be over. But they're not gonna do that.

They might have simply lost the information about a virus developed more than 100 years earlier.

And I repeat, Vault 87 FEV research was supervised by Mariposa. The only place where Vault-Tec was conducting rogue FEV experiments without government supervision was the Secret Vault in the non-canon "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel".

It's quite clear why Vault 87 was in the game, Bethesda wanted Super Mutants because they wanted a "smooth transition" between the old Fallout and the new Fallout for series veterans so they wouldn't feel out of place (that didn't work out too well). Whether or not the presence of Super Mutant's and Vault 87 being an FEV vault make any sense in the context of the pre-Fallout 3 lore is another story. I don't think it's as bad as some folks obviously do, but it does leave me scratching my head.

I know. I'm just rather bored, and find this mildly amusing. I lead a sad sad existance, I know.

That's cute, but it's one huge strawman.


I'm not aware of any minutiae of canon that explicitly disallows FEV on the East Coast. I HAVE seen aliens in FO1, Star Trek and Monty Python in FO2.

actually, if you read all of my posts, i am doing research trying to prove either side. I even made a post saying i was about to eat humble pie, as i thought for a minute it was able to be proved its anti lore/canon.

you ask me to let this topic die. i would rather have it here, in this corner of a forum where it can be talked about in a civil and focused manner, than in any of the other threads that i had tried to read when first coming to this board. But i coudnt even read what was going on in some of the threads because of all of you people talking about \"this goes against lore.\" or \"this goes against canon.\" This is a place for you to actually prove that, since you seem to feel the need to put it out there in every thread anyway.

honestly. I\'ll admit that i\'m a fairly new fan of the series. If you look in my avatar, you will see Kain from the LoK series. A series which has an excellent time/storyline. continuity is most definately something that is important to me. So, when people charge that this game is anti-canon/lore if igured people could at leas try to look at it objectively, rather than subjectively.


here is my side.
it cant go against lore if lore alows for the possibility. a lot of room was left open, so i feel its ridiculous when people speak of it in absolutes. again. im nt saying how it got there. Why its there. i can admit that i dont know.
all im saying is that the timeline allows for the possibility. can you honestly say that the possibity is not there? even if far fetched, it isthere



so no. its not an attempt to rile people up.. its honestly not.
if it is anti canon/lore i would just like to see all of these claims backed by actual facts.. not assumptions that have holes allowing a plus or minus tolerance. proof in absolute values.




how can they even do that if everyone just says "it couldnt be that way!"? this is another reason why exploring the parts of the timeline that allow for a possiblity, even a small one is good. who knows. maybe a dev will read this, see the ways they can explain it in a future games with backstory and everyone can be happy..

I didn't read all your posts. I don't care to. Not after I was 'shamed' for contributing to what should have been an open-minded discussion.

I just don't think this topic wants to go anywhere, it's gone about as far as different sides arguing the toss about fact in the midst of fact, fact in the midst of stupidity, and fact in the midst of common sense, and everything inbetween. That's pretty much where it will remain, as the topic isn't about speculation, but about proof. So it may aswell drop off the radar.

drop off teh radar?
and i am the one trying to rile people up?
no, i dont think that i will.

and it is a shame that when the possiblity is thare, that it cant be explored with an un-biased open mind, but instead is propped up on the same perforated rhetoric that people are useing here. Malcador is one of the only people ive seen who has at least tried tto pose theories on how it could fit together. even if its wasnt highly likey..


but yes, im asking for actual proof that it is impossible

you wouldnt think it would be so hard to produce for the amount of people claiming with such intensity that it goes against previous fallouts.


"fallout 3 slumps to the floor logically challenged"
how ironic

What is a shame is that whether FEV makes sense in Vault 87 or not. Bethesda just don't care enough to place it there, so much as force it in, shut the door, and forget about it.

What is the point of canon if it makes no sense, and is non-sustainable? That is the whole point of canon, otherwise it wouldn't be called anything, as there would be no significance applied to its existence.

Bethesda could have said "two blokes smuggled a vial of the stuff in their rectums to Vault 87" Or a more believable "The US government wished for a loophole in which FEV could be safely and discreetly tested on humans, Vault 87 was then recommissioned for compatability with FEV research and testing" But they didn't. It's just there. Born of ?ether and permeated into existence.

So whilst you're arguing the toss that there is nothing that speaks against it, there is, on the other side of that very same coin, nothing that puts it there. An easy fix some would say. But if a developer doesn't care enough to make an effort, and include the all-important attention to detail, then you may aswell call canon a write off and bear no significance to it in the future. Then Fallout can become just another mindless and questionably frustrating franchise.

But by all means, keep on demanding that people satisfy the importance and urgency of your plight. *We as fans are the problem in this equation, of course[/sarcasm]

hey, thanks for the sarcasm, but im all stocked up right now...

see and i get that. it would indeed have been nice if it were explained. ive said that in this this very thread.

but, instead of saying theres no way it could happe because it wasnt spoon fed to you, look at how it could happen. god forbid any of us have an imagination.

and realize that if gamesas has plans to make more of these games, unexplained items may have light shed on them, as there is most definately the possibility to do so.

Eh, it's no so much about imagination, but more about using facts that have been already established in the setting, rather then changing it to suit your needs, which is exactly what Bethesda did. Things like that is what makes it feel like an alternate version of the establish Fallout setting.

It's generally considered a good idea to establish lore and history before, or during the period in which a game is set in. Especially if it is the spiritual successor of a franchise that's been around for over a decade, and has a strong foundation for lore and history to begin with.

I'm also lost as to how you claim to be pro-speculation, when you demand nothing but undisputable fact. These aren't synonymous, by any degree. You can have one or the other. If someone speculates you tell them you want fact, when someone states fact you tell them it's not enough to satisfy your curiosity.

Here's an idea, stop demanding facts, and then ask for people to be imaginative, because that kindof confusion is more than stifling to a topic. More to the point, just because you started the topic, doesn't mean you can demand anything. You've started the topic, and there your responsibility ends. If people wish to speculate, or quote consistency, they should be permitted. It may not appease you, but if this topic is just for you, then it should die. This is a community, not a one-man show.

This applies. Like I said, canon is nothing if it doesn't exsist to be consistent with itself. This clearly isn't Bethesda's strong point. But I still believe it to be laziness than ignorance.

why was the fallout bible even writen?

to answer questions in inconsistancies between fallout 1 and 2.


if anything i can get that qthe different perspective bugs as far as being different. thats tangible.

but its not as if fallout 2s differences from 1 were explained in f2.. they had to have people answer questions, after the fact.



why was the fallout bible written?


i can speculate because i am not the one claiming an absolute, which would be that its impossible for there to be FEV in 87..
the burdeon of factual proof is on those that sayi it cant be there. i did give factual information that allows for the speculatioon of its existance.

i am sorry if you cant comprehend that.



the reason for "demanding" proof is for the fallout community. it is to try and put this all to rest. for people to understand that there is leaway there. the reason that i steer people away from spectulation on an absolute is because that is what drives us away from the point of this thread. which is proof. if you do not have proof, then do not post.

again, im sorry that you cant comprehend that. perhpas you should just move on.

To be honest, there wasn't THAT many inconsistancies between the two games. I saw the FO Bible to be answering fans questions about the series, which sometimes lead to an honest error that was made about the game.

Also, chill guys, no need to attract moderation :lmao:

oh, but thos einconsistancies are ok, because its all interplay?




hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



you all have a good weekend..


im going home to relax and play fallouot3


peace

FO1 & 2 were made a year apart. There were bound to be inconsistencies, which were then addressed directly through a close developer/gamer relationship. This no longer applies.

It's not black and white. Fact is fact, but absence of proof is not proof of absence, that is a very common saying, and it applies in volumes here. You cannot claim anything that I also cannot. Fact is fact. There is nothing to speculate, if you're dealing in fact.

Speculation belongs on a forum, fact belongs on wikipedia. Fact is a source, not a point of discussion. This topic isn't providing anything useful. If people want to know something, they can read the relevant facts. If you have some idea that this topic will oneday be a beacon of truth, then, wikipedia should be scared of you. But they're not, because it isn't.

If I have no proof, I should not post? But oh noes, I wanted to use that imagination you scorned me for not using. As I stated, you cannot police a topic. You started it, here it is, it's now a community resource. Maybe you should message one of the mods, and ask them to disallow any speculation in this thread. Then send me their reply, I'd love to read it.

I can't tell you what you are, and what this topic represents in your name, because I would get banned

They addressed inconsistancies that fans brought up. Like Chris said, Interplay/Black Isle developers had a close relationship with the fanbase. Bethesda does not.

If I made a topic saying "Why was the GECK changed?", odds are, I ain't gonna get an answer from a Bethesda dev. If it was Black Isle, they'd be much more likely to attempt to address it, even if it was a "I can't comment on that right now" answer. They were cool that way.

Chris Taylor still posts on the Interplay forums, even though it's pretty dead these days (I've also spotted him on NMA on occasion). He even commented on a ghoul lore question I exported from here, just so he could provide some insight. He didn't give me the answer I hoped for, but he gave his two caps nonetheless

And now we have Josh Sawyer (JES) from Obsidian poking his head through the door on these forums every now and then. Ok he doesn't say much, but he takes an interest

Sawyer always has something interesting to say

Can't wait until he can talk a little more freely on New Vegas.

Aye. After reading what he had to say on Van Buren, he really showed to me that he understands what would have been a good evolution of the series. In that case it doesn't matter so much that Van Buren didn't happen, I'm sold that he's more than capable of dynamic thought and development to that end As you say, it will be great when he can finally comment.

I can't beleive this is still going, and I can't believe how you are acting, almost as if your mind is already set.

But I want to play too, you said you liked LOK? MMMMK.


Kain was person of questionable taste in consensual parteners, and those who where not as old as he ( I wrote that in code to avoid saying something in a bad way ) and that is why he was murdered.
The assassins killed him, he angered the wrong crowd and made the wrong move on the wrong people.


Raziel was a preist, one of the bad kind you read about in the news, and was punished for what he done, his tragic nature comes from doing the things he done as a preist and a sort of fallen angel way, and his broken wings symbolise what he could have been.

Now show me ANY where that there is direct lore/cannon to prove what I said other wise? If you can I will be susprised, cause I done some of my own digging, and my own interpreting of the story.

I say it is so, and that is why they are what they are now, I can't prove it, and you can't dis-prove it.
That is what you are doing to us in a fashion.