Because no one can say "this will happen after the nuclear war." They had no idea the government would fall apart. There are alot of plans set to maintain the government in the event of nuclear war.

There are also many plans to continue fighting through a nuclear war.

Do you just say " OHHH nuclear war we quit" ?

Why would you not keep developing weapons during the war?

What ever the U.S. government did in fo is not what they would really do. They would not all die, and it would not take 100 years for the them to act in some way.

Most major countries militaries and governments are made to continue through nuclear war.

I never thought I'd see the day, but I have to agree with Rook on this one. Vault 87 wasn't as horrible as some of you guys make it out to be, yes it was obviously Bethesda using a loophole in order to have Super Mutants in the Capital Wasteland, but there wasn't really any lore beforehand stating that FEV could only be found in Mariposa. The FEV research was moved from West Tek to Mariposa, and then a new strain was moved to Vault 87 for testing... this is the explanation given on one of the Vault 87 terminals in Fallout 3 if I remember correctly, and it's quite adequate. I have more issues with the completely random, unnecessary and unexplained redesign of the Enclave's power armor.

My only real gripe (which other people have already pointed out) is that FEV in Vault 87 of all places is a pretty big leap in logic. If the government was going to use a Vault to test a different strain of FEV, wouldn't it have been more practical to use a Vault that was closer to West Tek and Mariposa where all of the real research was being done? I find it difficult to justify the presence of FEV in Vault 87 if there were viable Vaults that were much closer to these places such as Vault 13 and Vault 15.

My thoughts exactly. :foodndrink: (especially the part about the Enclave armor, although I'm more concerned with why they nerfed the armor and made it equal to the T-45d)

I'd have to agree with Rook as well.

Agreed

Bethesda screwed up.



ALL FEV research was moved from West Tek to Mariposa for security. All which means any other strains of FEV. FEV was top secret stuff, the most top secret stuff. Sending it to two different companies thousands of miles apart would be a huge security risk.

The people at West Tek and Mariposa where the ones that created it, the ones that know it best. They would not just hand it over to people that build Vaults and say "here go nuts." It would be like the people working for the Center of Disease Control, giving ebola virus to city planners and letting them study it.

Except for every bit of data that discusses the development of FEV.

The data discusses the development of FEV at Mariposa, and Vault 87 doesn't claim to have first developed it. So I hardly think "every bit of data" contradicts it.

The only sentence that could is the "all FEV being moved to Mariposa," but whether or not you agree with it, there are several loopholes that involve that statement that can (and apparently have been) exploited.

1. He could only be referring to the FEV at his facility (west tek).

2. He made the statement before part of the FEV was transferred to Vault 87. (Which I actually find to be quit likely, since the FEV was described as being moved from Mariposa to Vault 87.)

Both are perfectly reasonable I believe.

I agree, maybe he
was just referring to West Tek.

I think that Vault 87 was supposed to be researching a cure for the New Plague and when FEV was discovered it's reason changed. That would make sense.

Its not so much using a loophole, but manufacturing one in a *very* bad way. It is wrong for FEV to be in a Vault-Tec vault (even if it is a valid experiment to do).

There are more plausable ways for FEV to reach the CW without involving a Vault Tec.

(oh and before anyone says anything - I consider myself a Chicken, that is an Evolved Dinosaur; I like Fallout 3, its not going to be in top 100 of all time lists in 10 years time ala FO1, but it was good).

Why would people be researching stuff in the Vault before the bombs dropped? New Plague became the FEV project in 2075 (four years after Vault 87's competion).

The statement made about the FEV was made in the last few months before the Great War. Mariposa was build just for FEV research.

The building of Vault 87 would have taken years and the FEV in 87 was different which means that type of FEV had to have been around for years as well. Vault 87 was built just for that strain of FEV.

So when it is said that all FEV research was moved it means all the damn strains as well. All research means all research on all FEV and all the FEV strains, period.

They didn't research anything, I think they were supposed to find a cure for the New Plague (which was still around after the Great War) but the US decided that FEV research was far more important, so they changed it.

They had all of the lab equipment built in.

They built Mariposa for FEV research. Why build a vault and gigive FEV another company, when they went and built Mariposa? Also all of the FEV research was sent from West Tek to Mariposa. Building a vault with gas chambers means they were not building Vault 87 to find a damn cure for New Plague. They were building it to make super mutants.

The people working on FEV did not figure out it could make super mutants till around 2077. So there should not have been a Vault 87. They would not have had time to make a vault or even retro fit a vault, for this new strain of FEV in under a year. They didn't even know FEV made super mutants until the final months before the Great War.

It discusses the development of FEV from it's inception as a strain of the PPV virus from the transfer of all research to Mariposa which was a military facility custom built for that purpose.



The FEV experiment disk covers research from day one with the strain of PPV to the transfer of all research to Mariposa. So this doesn't really work unless he notes the transfer to Mariposa without noting a previous transfer.



Yes but that is still changing the lore. Before Fallout 3 all evidence in the game made it plain that FEV was only present in Mariposa. Tim Cain has said that was his intent. If the next Fallout revealed the Enclave had 250,000 guys waiting around in safe zones in Alaska would you insist that this is "perfectly reasonable," there has been no retcon and no lore has been altered since nothing in any Fallout game explicitly states otherwise?

The only other thing I can think of is they were going to use those gas chambers to see the effects of radiation on people (I know that Desmond Lockehart already did that and became a ghouln but maybe the government didn't know) and then they were given a supply of FEV to test.

Maybe that's why supermutants look different, they're made from radioactive FEV and why they grow constantly, making Behemoths.

The statement was made in January, 2077. The interim period between the statement and the Great War certainly allowed enough time for the transfer to be made.




Perhaps not. Perhaps the new strain of FEV was developed only once the experimenting at Vault 87 began and during the post-war era.



No I wouldn't. Because having 250,000 Enclave appear from nowhere would actually break lore since there are specfic statements that say the Enclave isn't anywhere else.

"Soon the staff of the Oil Rig and Navarro will be inocculated".

And comparing a new location where FEV can be found to a complete re-emergence of the Enclave to a state more powerful than they were before is not reasonable in and of itself.

Vault 87 was built just for that strain of FEV.

Mariposa was built just for all FEV research.

The people working on FEV did not find out about it's ability to make super mutants until the final months before the Great War.

So there is no way that they would have known about the ability to make super mutants and FEV's ability to make them in time to custom build Vault 87. Or even retro fit it.

The stain of FEV in Fallout 3 would have been apart of the research going on at Mariposa. That is where they figured out FEV = Super Mutant.

They were not trying to make super mutants. They were trying to make super men. Still they did not think about making super men until the final months leading up to the Great War.

All research on FEV was moved from West-Tek to Mariposa. West Tek was working on a cure for New Plague. Mariposa was for finding a way to use FEV to make super men. Mariposa was finished in 2077.

There was no time to even build Vault 87 for that strain of FEV seen in Fallout 3.

So in short, Bethesda messed up and went against established canon/lore.

http://supermanfanart.com/images/fanart/supermen.jpg

In all seriousness did you see my post?

Is it ever specfically said that Vault 87 was only created for FEV research and was never intended for anything else originally?



Vault 87 was probably constructed well in advance and not intially intended for FEV reaseach. It may have at first been a control Vault. With the Great war looming then, the American government wanted to house some FEV in a different location. There was no time to contruct a new facility, so they simply transferred it to a Vault and re-fitted the Vault (Vaul 87) for FEV research purposes into the post apocalyptic era.

Whose to say the new strain of FEV wasn't developed at Mariposa and then moved to Vault 87 for further testing in a seperate hidden facility?

What I am saying is fact. There was no time to make Vault 87 or even retro fit it for that special FEV seen in Fallout 3.

Mariposa was for all research on FEV, All research. It was finished in 2077.

West-Tek was for finding a cure for New Plague. Mariposa was for making supermen. They did not figure out that FEV = Super Mutants till the final months. In short there was no time to even custom build Vault 87. No time to move it there. No reason to have research sent to anyone else outside of Mariposa. They did not even come up with the idea of making supermen till 2077.

There was no TIME and no Reason for Vault 87.

Look at Vault 87. It was clear it was made just for that FEV strain and the testing to make Supermen. Which there was no time for. If it was not made for that then the risk of letting lose an airborn FEV into something not made for it would be very stupid and deadly to people.

All reasearch was sent to Mariposa in 2077. What are you people not getting about the meaning of the word ALL?!! It means everything, 100%

They built Mariposa just for the testing of FEV. They would not send it to a Vault made for something else. It makes no sense. "Hey Bob we just built this top secret military base and boy did it cost alot, but you know maybe we should for some reason send some research to on of them Vaults. You know just for kicks."

All rmeans all FEV and all those studying it and all research weas sent to Mariposa.

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Can you say that for certain and back it up with quotes and evidence?

How do you know there wasn't enough time for it to be refitted?



See my previous post above yours.



Hardly.

Part of Vault 87's experiment parameters was to test how FEV could be used to resettle a post-apocalyptic world.

Mariposa finished in the year 2077. They discoved FEV's ability to make super mutants just before the great war. How the hell would they have the time to retro fit a Vault or even Build a Vault in just a few months? Why would they move this new strain to a new retro fitted Vault when they have this new Mariposa base built just for FEV. Why say ALL research and then send FEV to a Vault?

There was no time.

No time at all. The logs and all info on FEV say that FEV was moved from West Tek to Mariposa just before the great war. That they did not find out that FEV could make Super mutants until the few months before the war.

I know you don't want to admit that Bethesda made a mistake but they did. You can twist words and ask all the "what ifs" you want but logic, and lore is against it.



That would fall under All research. Why have large gas chambers and cells to see how it "helps" when they were studying how to make supermen and had this brand new top secret military base built just for all possible research on FEV?

Look at my [censored] post!

It's a couple of posts before this one.

Yeah I see it, you think it was for Radiation. Radiation and airborn Virus is totally different. They would not need large gas chambers for that. Second they had a vault to test the effect of Radiation. It was the one in LA that created Necropolis.

Even if it was for Radiation it does not explain way the other plot holes I have pointed out. Try reading my posts. Just saying "It might have been for radiation testing" is not a cure all. Still leaves a crap load of plot holes and timeline holes.

Bakersfield.