Also its very possible that later on they could have cooked up a virus to wipe out some of the more dangerous mutated animals. That's certainly not out of the question.

In Fallout 3 for instance, they were able to come up with a virus that only targeted mutations.

Yes but why if they have no wildlife?

I don't think that plot-convenience virus actaully targeted mutations, maybe Eden was just lying to you.

I suppose there is no way to prove it. But I have no reason to doubt the President, and there's no concrete evidence to the contrary. ( I understand he could have been using the LW, but still, I don't think that was the case, I think he was simply trying to convince a person he percieved as a Vault dweller who had experienced the horrors of the waste and would possibly be sympathetic to Enclave goals to join the Enclave).



Well I'm not saying they would wipe out every mutated animal, but I'm not sure an animal like a deathclaw or giant rad-scorpion has much in the way of domestication/wildlife value. I'm saying its not out of the question that they could have developed a virus which specifically targeted a species and released it.

Vice President Bird indicates that dike and company weren't the best pickers of the lot to begin with.

Bird was elected to his position, he then volunteered to be the first to have the FEV Vaccine tested on him and it destroyed him; maybe people would feel bad :shrug:.

I know, but all of his nonsensical slogans were spoken originally by Dan Quayle.

*ahem*

In any case, I guess I just can't help but want to see the Enclave under Richardson destroyed because it's such a betrayal of the United States. I really really really like Colonel Autumn because he effectively was willing to stand up against the nonsensical ethics of that monster dike Richardson. I know you disagree but at heart, he's destroying the United States former citizenry because he's a racist whose built his justification on entirely ridiculous criteria. The Enclave could have been a major force for rebuilding the Wastelands and creating a new United States but they decided to play supervillain.

The result? The Enclave, one of the FEW remaining sources of industry and science left in the world was destroyed.

TWICE.

You can't even blame the surviving humans for hunting them down, because it was an attempt to murder them all.

They're sort of like the villains in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. The ones who wanted to murder all of humanity with a virus to save animals and wildlife. It's such a WASTE that's motivated by an arbitrary definition.

Think how much the Enclave could have done without that virus.

Colonel Autumn for President, 2270.

Exactly! What if they had decided to use SCIENCE! to actually protect and serve the citizens of the country they claim to represent?!

So I've heard, one pop-culture reference which did piss me off.



Colonel Autumn's Enclave would be any less of a betrayal? A military dictatorship who's leader took control through a military coup (and if you listen to his holotape he basically says that he's keeping the self-destruct codes in-case Eden goes behind his back) and potential randsom of the President. Why is dike a 'monster' because he was brought up in an indoctrinating dictatorship? What an evil bastard. Why are his ethics nonsensical? Because they would have worked?

Oh and Autumn? Autumn who literally sacrificed his own men to the Purifier?

The code is 704, repeat 704, confirm and enter.

Negative Sir, the codes no good I just lost another man

Don't forget that if you speech him during the last mission he completely disbelieves that Eden would betray him, even going through denial by suggesting that you must have stolen it. So he didn't start fighting in Raven Rock because he thought Eden was going to betray him, he just went mad and got a lot of citizens killed whilst he pissed off in a Vertibird


Well they lost in F3 because of Bethesda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvpMB8LkRI0

1:28, 3 Vertibirds come in from behind him and could easily unload missiles into Prime's weak thighs but instead two just fly past and the other hovers in front pathetically. If a 17 year old can spot the massive faults in this stratergy then it is because of Bethesda.

And Fallout 2, again it was stupid. An Oil Tanker which the Enclave has already decided is a threat and gone out of it's way to disable and they never see it coming? The whole point of the Tanker is because the Oil Rig's automatic guns won't sink it, so somewhere in the Rig somebody should have found out when the IFF allowed a friendly vessel through.



Never said I did.

What could the Enclave have done? All it has of any advantage is military technology, so unless you want them to serve as an extension the NCR's Army then good for you.

Autumn for summary execution for cowardice (leaving his men to fight Eden and the LW whilst he pissed off) and treason.

You are forgetting that Autumn had no problem with the various "genetic compliance screening" checkpoints throughout the wasteland. I honestly don't believe that Autumn's plan would have meant "Enclave and wastelanders working together forever!" In my view, the Enclave soldiers, who are taught from birth that the outside contains disgusting mutants, would never had gone alone with Autumn's "plan" when he tried to implement it (indeed I think its clear that they are really unsure of what Autumn is doing). Heck I'm not even sure if Autumn is fully aware of what he's doing, evidence by his loyalty to the President after he just publicly countermanded Eden's orders. He's clearly quite confused, defending a purifier that is not going to help the Enclave in any real way and losing in the process, costing the lives of many Enclave troops.

The United States was founded with a Revolution against a corrupt ruler. In the case of John Henry Eden, genocide is certainly grounds for formal impeachment but in the case of JHE being capable of destryong Raven Rock I see no reason why he shouldn't be formally disposed of. Colonel Autumn clearly seems to have the loyalty of his men and I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to restore formal democracy in time. I'm inclined to think, at the very least, that the Apocalypse also qualifies as a State of Emergency for the Union.

As for dike being a monster, there's an obvious difference between individuals indoctrinated through a specific culture and going above and beyond the bounds of that culture. Colonel Autumn, Daisy Whitman, and so on are all products of the Old Enclave's culture but there's no sign they're involved in the genocide. One would think that would be mentioned. Sergeant Rock, another pop culture reference I disliked - in part because they don't have any chance to escape with you, is racist but he doesn't seem like he's involved in the genocide plot.

Amusingly, you can even talk the Nazi-esque Doctor out of his involvement unlike dike. Admittedly, I DISLIKED that because the Doctor immediately murders the entire Enclave's civilian population as a result. Which, to me, just goes to show the Enclave has some seriously twisted nutcases in their service. My Chosen One just wanted to get his people free and stop the FEV virus - not wipe out the Enclave.

That wasn't an option, though.

(Personally, having Frank Horrigan do it would have been preferrable)



You've mentioned this before. Someone tried to use the Purifer and died, that's not something you would normally expect when attempting to use a glorified Brita. The (in all probability) second time, Colonel Autumn is being told this by the Lone Wanderer. Yes, it carries a risk but it's no different than any other soldier being sent into battle while a leader gives orders.

Given John Henry Eden poses a direct threat to the majority of the human race, it would be needlessly risky for Colonel Autumn to handle it himself. The fact that he already survived taking control of the Purifier mano-a-mano shows he's not a coward either.



It requires atomics to penetrate Liberty Prime's exo-skeleton. Even then, he was only damaged by the attack and rendered nonfunctional. Given the fact that the Mobile Carrier ALSO requires atomics to penetrate, I'm inclined to think the Vertibirds missiles would have just painted Liberty Prime's exoskeleton.



Given what we saw fleeing from Raven Rock, it's quite possible (even obvious) Colonel Autumn is supervising the evacuation. The question of how much of the civilian populace versus the military populace is evacuated is an interesting one but it's not like the evacuation began BEFORE the self-destruct mechanism was activated. Even then, I have to admit I was thinking this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulKwhhFOkgk



NCR was little more than an extension of Shady Sands in Fallout 2. The Enclave, had it begun, could have directed the reconstruction a great deal faster. Likewise, it could have added a certain level of ruthlessness to the government that might have been far better realized. With the Enclave's Power Armor and Laser guns, they could pretty much annihilate any force that opposes them other than the BOS (and even then, the BOS said they couldn't fight the Enclave at their height).

Caesar's Legion is a stupid stupid organization but it was correct that you need to eliminate the whole "tribal identity" to rebuild humanity. Even Mister House knew that, basically instilling in the Three Families identities leftover from Pre-War 1950s Las Vegas.



I don't know, in real life, it's actually not at all uncommon to have people who are frothing racists balk at genocide. Not to Godwin the thread, it actually happened with many people who had to deal with the Nazis.

Even in Fallout 2, it's an ending of the Enclave that they successfully integrate into NCR and become a driving force to making it a fascist state. Of course, in NV, we see that these elements didn't exactly end up doing too well.

So basically anything is justified because there's been a war 200 years ago? Autumn was the loyalty men sure but is that any grounds for disposing of the President and putting himself in charge?



Autumn was a boy. As for Whitman and the Remnants, they Project was a frequent part ofhttp://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/State_of_the_Nation, I think Richardson know what the citizens think. Why do you think that they would mention that the Enclave's plan was global genocide, let's imagine how Kreger would have put it:

"Sometimes I miss those days, we all had a purpose you know. Our's was global genocide for the propagation of the human race."

That first part is an exact quote by the way, even Johnson admits that he misses the Enclave sometimes. They knew what they were fighting for, they were perfectly capable with going out on patrol and stomping on people.

Don't even get me started on [censored] Sergeant Granite, "Hey hear those alarms? The rig is going to blow, everyone dead, oh and your retired mother is rolling on the floor of her apartment clutching her throat as the FEV virus kills her. Want to kill Horrigan?"

"Yeah, I ain't going to drown like no rat."

:banghead: It's a joke, I think that I treat the character with a much more plausable explaination and dignity if I may say so,



Something else I didn't like, you don't even say anything smart;

"Haven't you ever considered that evolution is natural?"

"Dead God I never thought of that, the only solution is to kill all of the citizens on here, vaccinated your people and stay here to die."




And you never answered, Autumn was there when two people in power armour next to him died from the radiation. The soldier on the other side says, "Another soldier". It carries the risk of certain death, here's an idea, send a machine in to do it you impatient bastard; the Boomers can disasemble and bring back a B-29 with machine's, I think that the Enclave might have better methods of punching three numbers and enter then sending in men.



He injects himself with a needle after shooting an unarmed civilian and setting up a pointless character motivation for the Lone Wanderer, hardly a hero.



Those arn't nuclear weapons on the satilite, http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100407213557/fallout/images/archive/8/87/20110205045543!Fo3_Liberty_Prime.png, he has exposed cables and thighs which consist of girder; the Vertibirds come in from behind and have mini nukes and missiles, don't just slow down and hover in-front of the machines face.



There is no evacuation, Autumn leaves the codes in his room; again, speech Autumn in the final battle, he goes on about how the "Chain-of-Command must be obeyed" and how he just can't believe that Eden would actually betray him. He started his coup over nothing and then left before it was over, leaving his men to Eden's sentry bots.



"We've been jammed! Strawberry!"

How can you be sure the self destruct mechanism was activated at all? Its not been specified that its the canon ending to Raven Rock (other option of course being that it survives until Prime seals it up).